Can't order a car spec'd the way I want

[Lebowski]

I wonder what percentage of those are servicemembers. There are some "GREAT DEALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" which include shipping it back to the US, (even though the car was probably built in North Carolina in many cases) and those deals are in reality are not that much better than buying stateside.

Just pulled up the emails with the quotes for the M3, and I asked about European delivery at that time as well.  The price he quoted me for ED was $4125 cheaper than US delivery (standard delivery to your dealer in the US or performance center delivery in SC would be the same as the performance center is a zero cost option).

Just jumping on kayak pretty quick, $4125 is enough to cover airfare for two at ~$1200 per leaving enough for about 5-6 nights in hotels depending on price.  I don't remember whether ED included any perks like a free hotel room for a night or two (PCD in SC includes a night at the nearby Marriott).

So is it a good deal?  IMO if you like to travel and view it as basically a subsidized European vacation it's a great deal. If you don't like to travel and view flying over there as a chore it's a terrible deal. I like to travel, so I would do it in a heartbeat if it worked with my schedule.

Same with PCD. If you want to take a one-way road trip in your new car it's a great deal. A lot of people don't seem to agree, I got a lot of comments like "wait, you had to fly up to SC to pick it up?  Why would you want to do that?" mostly from non car people.

[ifcar]

Because it's a big deal and in general people there don't go through cars as fast as we do.

Actually, the average age of cars in the EU is nearly 2 years less than in the U.S. -- 11.4 years here vs. 9.7 there. And used cars there seem to lose their value more quickly, at least based on used-car listings I've seen from the UK and Italy. Either Europeans are more afraid that old cars will die on them or they actually are less reliable.

[MX793]

Actually, the average age of cars in the EU is nearly 2 years less than in the U.S. -- 11.4 years here vs. 9.7 there. And used cars there seem to lose their value more quickly, at least based on used-car listings I've seen from the UK and Italy. Either Europeans are more afraid that old cars will die on them or they actually are less reliable.

Part of it is passing the necessary safety and emissions inspections, which are much more thorough and stringent than in the US.  Getting an 8 or 10 year old car through a TUV inspection in Germany can be very costly.  It's a similar story in Japan, where used car values absolutely plummet because they end up being so costly to keep on the road after 4-5 years.

[12,000 RPM]

I can't imagine frequent car replacement is more environmentally friendly than just keeping cars on the road longer. Especially in places like Germany and Japan with huge domestic auto manufacturing outfits. That is some backwards shit.

[RomanChariot]

I can't imagine frequent car replacement is more environmentally friendly than just keeping cars on the road longer. Especially in places like Germany and Japan with huge domestic auto manufacturing outfits. That is some backwards shit.

I don't think that laws like that are necessarily based on being environmentally friendly. It reminds me of when Utah changed its registration fees many years ago. You used to have to pay a vehicle tax based on the value of your car each year. Old cars barely had to pay anything with new cars paying hundreds of dollars each year. They changed it to a revenue neutral fee (not a tax) where the fee on old cars went up about 500% and the fee on new cars diminished considerably. Not surprisingly, the state legislator who pushed through the change was an automobile dealer and the change was intended to incentive new car sales.

[AutobahnSHO]

The thing I was talking about wasn't the dealer option, it is a program run by the army air force exchange service..

[AutobahnSHO]

That is some backwards shit.

Are you surprised?

[AutobahnSHO]

Actually, the average age of cars in the EU is nearly 2 years less than in the U.S. -- 11.4 years here vs. 9.7 there. And used cars there seem to lose their value more quickly, at least based on used-car listings I've seen from the UK and Italy. Either Europeans are more afraid that old cars will die on them or they actually are less reliable.

Right but I don't believe Europeans rotated them like Mr. H.

[Byteme]

It seems that certain car companies allow you to directly order a car through a dealership from the factory spec'd the way you want.  It obviously takes time and you probably can't negotiate off of MSRP.  I remember my brother in law a few years ago getting a convertible BMW this way.  He told me the dealer wasn't thrilled that he wasn't buying a car from the lot but quickly became much happier after my brother in law put something like 20 thousand dollars down towards the purchase price.

A few days ago I was talking on the internet via email with a Mazda internet sales specialist at a local dealer about the Mazda 6 with manual transmission.  I know they're super rare.  I asked him how long would it take to get one if I ordered it via his dealership straight from the factory spec'd the way I want.  So I get no response?  This has happened twice now with two different dealerships.  The other dealership I talked with said they can try to find the car spec'd the way I want but he wouldn't answer my question about if I could directly order one spec'd the way I want.

What gives?  Can you not order a car from the factory via a dealership spec'd the way you want depending on the brand and/or model?

Assuming you are talking about a 2017 since it's past the time to order a 2016 from the factory; usually auto manufacturers start new model changeover in late June early July.

Anyway, car dealers would much rather move what's on their lot rather than have you order something fresh from the factory.   The dealer has all sorts of financing, insurance, taxes and other costs that keep going as long as a car sits on their lot.  Those are costs they want to minimize so they really push the current inventory to turn it quickly.  Can the dealer not find a suitable vehicle at another dealer that he can get transferred in?

Personally I'd not fiddle around with the internet.  Go to a dealer and ask our questions face to face.  E-mails are easy to ignore.  Someone standing on the showroom floor with scorch marks on their pockets asking questions is much harder to ignore.

You are looking for a rare animal, about 95% of new cars are automatics.  Since the Mazda 6 is considered a bit of a drivers car so that percentage may be lower, but probably not by much.

Quick comment on negotiating price.  Your best leverage is your ability to walk out of the dealership without purchasing anything, options are important.  If you ever let them think they are the only game in town or the only peoplw who have "your" dream car you have already lost half the battle.   Used to be there were about 40 Ford dealers in the Houston Metro area.  They all have web sites with current inventory.  When I was hunting for a Mustang Convertible in 2003 I looked on every dealer's web site to find what I wanted. 

[Byteme]

Great advice.  I suck at negotiating pricing and I've relied on independent internet brokers (carsdirect) to get a few of my past cars.  I know, I know, it's not that hard but I'm just not very good at it.   

See my earlier e-mail. 

One thing to remember.  All salesmen are liars, they will be your best friend, your pal, your confidant, they will say you are getting the best deal on the planet if that's what it takes to move a car.  After you sign the purchase agreement you return to being Mr. faceless. 

Do your research find the MSRP and dealer invoice, check for any rebates and determine exactly what you want to pay,  I'd start at no higher than dealer invoice (the dealer is making money if he sells to you at that price)  Write all this down and take it with you.  Don't show the dealer what you have.  Stick to your guns; don't let them talk you into a higher price or crap you don't need.  Don't be sweet talked  and never tell them what you can afford or what you make or anything else, just discuss what they want for their car.  Get that settled and then discuss any trade in.

The dealer also makes some money on financing, just think of it as kick back from the bank to the dealer.  You might get a better deal if you let them finance it, even if you want to pay cash.  I'd done that in the past.  Make 1 payment that pays off the outstanding balance.

You'll eventually get to the closer's cubicle, the guy ho creates all the crap you sign.  As soon as he introduces himself I tell them I can save them a lot of time and hassle because I don't want paint protection, an extended warranty, fabric protection or any of the other crap they always try to tack on at the last minute.  If they say this or that charge is mandatory and you don't think so, challenge them to prove it. 

Cardinal rule:  If you want something, ask for it.  When I bought the 6 everything was done except my signing.  Before I signed I told them they needed to throw in a free window tint, a thing of touch up paint and a cargo net.  "OK?"  "YES"  Where do I sign.

[Byteme]

And actually, most dealer stock is usally "mid grade" trim, very few stripper models sell, and not everyone wants to pay the extra money for the "Fully loaded" models.

The manufacturer has a recommended mix of vehicles they recommend the dealer should stock.  It's based on market research.  No one buys manual transmissions so the dealer doesn't inventory many. 

The manufacturers aren't dumb they know people want option A so they make it part of an options package that includes other high markup stuff the buyer might not really want but will accept in order to get option A.

[BimmerM3]

The manufacturers aren't dumb they know people want option A so they make it part of an options package that includes other high markup stuff the buyer might not really want but will accept in order to get option A.

Limiting the number of distinct variations of a particular model also simplifies the manufacturing process to an extent.

[Byteme]

Limiting the number of distinct variations of a particular model also simplifies the manufacturing process to an extent.

Yes, Absolutely it does. 

[AutobahnSHO]

It's even crazier always buying "well used", I take what I can find....   

[cawimmer430]

I would say in most cases, yes.

The only way the auto industry in the US survives remotely close to the level it does (expected to be ~18MM retail vehicles for 2016) is through impulse buying, and everything related to it - from laughably generous financing schemes to shady dealer tactics - enables that mentality. If Americans had to have rational financing (or the horror, pay cash) and wait weeks or a couple of months the US auto industry would in effect collapse.

Damn! 

[cawimmer430]

I wonder what percentage of those are servicemembers. There are some "GREAT DEALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" which include shipping it back to the US, (even though the car was probably built in North Carolina in many cases) and those deals are in reality are not that much better than buying stateside.

No idea, but I assume that many people who partake in this simply want to experience this unique feature and see Europe (Because we have so many fairy tale castles here and shit like that!  ). Plus in Germany the allure of the Autobahn must be tempting to the enthusiast driver and many probably want to test their new car on this unique highway! 

If I could afford to I'd do the same if I were buying a Japanese car and they offered this. Touring Japan? Eating fugu? Seeing Mount Fuji? Hell yes! 

Because it's a big deal and in general people there don't go through cars as fast as we do. Same with Japan- people junk their cars after 80k miles because it's so old (15yrs), they don't have as far to drive in many cases.

If memory serves me right the Japanese generally don't keep their cars for long periods because they're encouraged by the government to buy new, "cleaner" cars and receive some sort of financial incentive to do so.

[autokomppania]

When I was shopping for the Volvo and it became clear that the smartest way was to buy it from Sweden, I browsed the swedish equivalent of Ebay/craigslist and got frustrated because I was never quick enough for the good ones.

After couple of weeks, I sent emails to sales managers of few biggest dealerships and specified what I was looking for. I only got one reply, but the salesman sent me details of a car that was coming in in a few weeks time and asked if I liked, and if not, He would continue to look. Car turned out to be pretty close to what I wanted, We made the deal through email and I traveled to Sweden to pick it up. Service was great from start to finish and knowing the market, this car is also pretty good value.

So email can work, but you have to be persistent and it help, if you send the mail to a specific person, not some general company address.

[shp4man]

I'm going to have to special order a new pickup if I ever get one. I work at a dealer and have never seen one equipped like I want.

[ifcar]

2017 Mazda6 updates: slightly higher prices but more standard equipment, including the new steering system.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/2017-mazda-6-adds-equipment-keeps-manual-starts-at-22780/

[veeman]

2017 Mazda6 updates: slightly higher prices but more standard equipment, including the new steering system.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/2017-mazda-6-adds-equipment-keeps-manual-starts-at-22780/

Hey thanks!

[Byteme]

Hey thanks!

Bus wait, there's more.

Rumors persist that Mazda will, likely within the next 12 months, produce a Mazda 6 coupe that's even more sporty than the 4 door.   

Google Mazda 6 2 door. 

[veeman]

Bus wait, there's more.

Rumors persist that Mazda will, likely within the next 12 months, produce a Mazda 6 coupe that's even more sporty than the 4 door.   

Google Mazda 6 2 door. 

I wish that were true.  I read somewhere (I can't remember where) that the coupe is on hold and probably won't be coming.  Makes sense because I doubt they would sell many.  That's too bad because usually coupes look much better to me.  The exception for me is the Accord for which I find the sedan better looking. 

The Mazda 6 right now kind of checks all the right boxes for me.  Manual transmission, apparently a very good driver, not common, good styling, kick ass color available (soul red), good price, good gas mileage, good safety record.  It's not a head turner like a pony car though  and driving and hearing a V8 would be damn cool.  The difference in gas cost between the Mazda 6 and a V8 pony car putting in regular gas even driving 25 thousand miles a year (65% highway, 35% stop and go) at current gas prices is about $1,000 annually.  I was very surprised at that number and was expecting a much bigger difference.  This difference is basically moot considering there's a far bigger difference in the cost with the V8 pony car being about 10 thousand more the way I would spec them.     

[Morris Minor]

'This American Life' did an episode on a month at a Jeep dealership. It's well worth a listen, gives some understanding of what's going on behind the scenes & what's in play.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/513/129-cars

[Morris Minor]

... You'll eventually get to the closer's cubicle, the guy ho creates all the crap you sign.  As soon as he introduces himself I tell them I can save them a lot of time and hassle because I don't want paint protection, an extended warranty, fabric protection or any of the other crap they always try to tack on at the last minute.  If they say this or that charge is mandatory and you don't think so, challenge them to prove it.  ...

When I said "no" to all the add-on crap the closer was pitching, he said, "So you aren't interested in protecting your investment then?"

The message behind that is "I think you might just be cretinous enough to believe this car is an 'investment.'"

[mzziaz]

'This American Life' did an episode on a month at a Jeep dealership. It's well worth a listen, gives some understanding of what's going on behind the scenes & what's in play.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/513/129-cars

That episode is a good listen

[ifcar]

When I said "no" to all the add-on crap the closer was pitching, he said, "So you aren't interested in protecting your investment then?"

The message behind that is "I think you might just be cretinous enough to believe this car is an 'investment.'"

In fairness, it's an investment in the sense that you're spending money to have something valuable to your life. If a company buys a new computer, it's a depreciating asset but it's still an investment in the company -- the computer will help the company in other ways than its own monetary value.

[GoCougs]

I wish that were true.  I read somewhere (I can't remember where) that the coupe is on hold and probably won't be coming.  Makes sense because I doubt they would sell many.  That's too bad because usually coupes look much better to me.  The exception for me is the Accord for which I find the sedan better looking. 

The Mazda 6 right now kind of checks all the right boxes for me.  Manual transmission, apparently a very good driver, not common, good styling, kick ass color available (soul red), good price, good gas mileage, good safety record.  It's not a head turner like a pony car though  and driving and hearing a V8 would be damn cool.  The difference in gas cost between the Mazda 6 and a V8 pony car putting in regular gas even driving 25 thousand miles a year (65% highway, 35% stop and go) at current gas prices is about $1,000 annually.  I was very surprised at that number and was expecting a much bigger difference.  This difference is basically moot considering there's a far bigger difference in the cost with the V8 pony car being about 10 thousand more the way I would spec them.     

I'd go for the Accord V6 coupe - better car, more reliable too.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-honda-accord-coupe-v-6-manual-test-review

[veeman]

I'd go for the Accord V6 coupe - better car, more reliable too.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-honda-accord-coupe-v-6-manual-test-review

I don't like the styling of it.  I prefer the sedans.  The Accord sedan sport model with manual transmission is also a possibility.  The Accord sedan is very very common though which isn't necessarily a deal breaker.  A new V6 Accord coupe I believe is close to 30 thousand.  For that money, I'd prefer a V8 pony car. 

[Morris Minor]

You woulda thought that, with the flexibility of modern production lines, it would now be easier to order a car the way you want it: i.e. MINI.

[MrH]

You woulda thought that, with the flexibility of modern production lines, it would now be easier to order a car the way you want it: i.e. MINI.

Depends on the OEM.  If you're willing to wait, for the most part, it is easier than ever.