$20K for a more powerful DD.... WWCSD?

[SVT_Power]

There's a lot wrong with that chart I don't have the energy to get into now

Other than the redundant upper horizontal axis and the vertical axes not starting from 0 , not sure what else is so wrong with the chart?

[r0tor]

It just takes some adjusting. Funny thing about children in that...

...Well there is an interesting concept...

[Tave]

Get the car you want now. Switching out child seats is a once in awhile thing. Living with a cramped car when you have adolescents and they're kicking the back of your seat will be an everyday nightmare. You're not going to graduate to a sports coupe when they get bigger--you're going to want something bigger to keep up with them. Get the coupe you want and enjoy it until your future children force you out of it.

[Tave]

And I know I'm stating the obvious here, but given that you've slammed and thrown more aggressive springs on everything you've owned, there is simply no way you will be satisfied w the Camry. That's not a knock on it (I think the common complaints about it here are way overblown), as much as an honest evaluation of your driving preferences.

You've spent money on all your cars trying to get them to corner flatter, harder, and sharper. Why on earth would you buy the softest, most-wallowy riding thing in its class?

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

And I know I'm stating the obvious here, but given that you've slammed and thrown more aggressive springs on everything you've owned, there is simply no way you will be satisfied w the Camry. That's not a knock on it (I think the common complaints about it here are way overblown), as much as an honest evaluation of your driving preferences.

You've spent money on all your cars trying to get them to corner flatter, harder, and sharper. Why on earth would you buy the softest, most-wallowy riding thing in its class?

This is why I told him to get a G8 GT!! More than enough power, It handles damn good and the rear seat/trunk is HUGE!

[12,000 RPM]

And I know I'm stating the obvious here, but given that you've slammed and thrown more aggressive springs on everything you've owned, there is simply no way you will be satisfied w the Camry. That's not a knock on it (I think the common complaints about it here are way overblown), as much as an honest evaluation of your driving preferences.

You've spent money on all your cars trying to get them to corner flatter, harder, and sharper. Why on earth would you buy the softest, most-wallowy riding thing in its class?

I think you've misjudged my intentions with lowering. For starters I haven't slammed everything I owned. I left the Z stock, and the Civic is only like 1-1.5" lower than stock.

Handling is part of it, but not really the priority. If I just wanted better handling, I'd get a 4 banger Accord, and a rear sway bar with some aggressive stock sized tires. Honda's stock suspension calibration is damn near perfect IMO. Main priority is really looks. I just like the way cars look with ~1 finger gap. This is a big part of why I left the Z alone. It had a perfect stance out of the box, along with pretty good handling. Hell, it scraped on the speed bumps in my apt complex.

I suppose I could get something sportier like a G8, but why? Camry V6 will give me the low hassle/cost ownership experience I'm looking for, and with coilovers/wheels will give me the look I want as well. I had a sports car and grew to hate it once I had to commute in it every day... I don't want that. I don't think it's very complicated

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

The G8 is not as harsh as a 350Z. Actually it was great as a DD and even handled snow well!

[Eye of the Tiger]

The G8 is not as harsh as a 350Z. Actually it was great as a DD and even handled snow well!

Yeah, but it's no Camry on coilovers. Get your head straight, man.

[Tave]

I think you've misjudged my intentions with lowering. For starters I haven't slammed everything I owned. I left the Z stock, and the Civic is only like 1-1.5" lower than stock.

Handling is part of it, but not really the priority. If I just wanted better handling, I'd get a 4 banger Accord, and a rear sway bar with some aggressive stock sized tires. Honda's stock suspension calibration is damn near perfect IMO. Main priority is really looks. I just like the way cars look with ~1 finger gap. This is a big part of why I left the Z alone. It had a perfect stance out of the box, along with pretty good handling. Hell, it scraped on the speed bumps in my apt complex.

I suppose I could get something sportier like a G8, but why? Camry V6 will give me the low hassle/cost ownership experience I'm looking for, and with coilovers/wheels will give me the look I want as well. I had a sports car and grew to hate it once I had to commute in it every day... I don't want that. I don't think it's very complicated

I'm not saying get a sports car; there are plenty of nice-handling cars in the class you want that don't punish you in terms of ride quality.

The issue with the Camry is it'll be one of the poorer options to do what you want to do to it, to it. You're going to be stuck with the isolation, numbness, bad weight transfer, tendency to want to roll, etc., etc., etc... only without the suspension compliance and supple ride.

You'll get all of the downsides of driving a Camry with none of the positives other than the engine, which is a bit of a mixed bag itself. It'll be reliable, sure, but not exceptionally powerful or efficient.

[2o6]

The latest Camry is pretty OK tho, and the one just showed a few days ago may end up being even better.

[12,000 RPM]

I'm not saying get a sports car; there are plenty of nice-handling cars in the class you want that don't punish you in terms of ride quality.

All of those cars come with caveats/tradeoffs... most of which are deal breakers for me.

The issue with the Camry is it'll be one of the poorer options to do what you want to do to it, to it. You're going to be stuck with the isolation, numbness, bad weight transfer, tendency to want to roll, etc., etc., etc... only without the suspension compliance and supple ride.

You'll get all of the downsides of driving a Camry with none of the positives other than the engine, which is a bit of a mixed bag itself. It'll be reliable, sure, but not exceptionally powerful or efficient.

I think we need to clear up what I want to do to it. And I accept the blame for moving the goalposts. But for me, some isolation/numbness would be a good thing. The thing I hate the most about the Civic, and the Z, is easily the road/wind/tire noise. The Camry eliminating that is a plus. Only noise I want is engine noise. As far as chassis response, I would lower any car I got, so in that regard everything in the Camry's class is about equal. They will all handle the same on essentially the same springs/shocks.

The way I'm feeling right now, if not for the abysmal premium gas mileage, I think I'd want to try something like a Lexus LS. I would lower that too, as people do, mainly for the look. It's no different than something like an AMG Mercedes or whatever... people want good performance and decent response without ditching comfort and luxury.

[Cookie Monster]

Gas is cheap. Get the LS.

[Soup DeVille]

Can we just sum up this thread with "I want a Camry, and it'd be nice if I could justify it logically, but that's not really necessary?"

[12,000 RPM]

Gas is cheap. Get the LS.

It's gonna be like 50% more expensive to fuel up for a car that's slower. That's not good ricer math

[Eye of the Tiger]

All of those cars come with caveats/tradeoffs... most of which are deal breakers for me.
I think we need to clear up what I want to do to it. And I accept the blame for moving the goalposts. But for me, some isolation/numbness would be a good thing. The thing I hate the most about the Civic, and the Z, is easily the road/wind/tire noise. The Camry eliminating that is a plus. Only noise I want is engine noise. As far as chassis response, I would lower any car I got, so in that regard everything in the Camry's class is about equal. They will all handle the same on essentially the same springs/shocks.

The way I'm feeling right now, if not for the abysmal premium gas mileage, I think I'd want to try something like a Lexus LS. I would lower that too, as people do, mainly for the look. It's no different than something like an AMG Mercedes or whatever... people want good performance and decent response without ditching comfort and luxury.

Camry is slightly more isolated, but it's no Lexus. Hell, it's not even an Avalon. You want an Avalon, brah. Lightly used from some recently passed elderly lady.

[Soup DeVille]

It's gonna be like 50% more expensive to fuel up for a car that's slower. That's not good ricer math

How much are they charging for premium near you? It's usually a 20 cent/gal difference at most.  And which LS is slower than which Camry?

[12,000 RPM]

How much are they charging for premium near you? It's usually a 20 cent/gal difference at most.  And which LS is slower than which Camry?

It's about $0.40/gal here (so 20% for price). Fuel economy covers the rest (Camry V6 will do ~23-24 MPG in my hands, LS will do like 19-20, so another 20%). Camry V6 does quarter in 14.2, LS does it in 14.5 according to C&D.

Camry is slightly more isolated, but it's no Lexus. Hell, it's not even an Avalon. You want an Avalon, brah. Lightly used from some recently passed elderly lady.

Compared to Civic/Z it is. And at my job all the old ladies drive Camrys. There are a ton of them in the handicapped spots.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Yeah, but it's no Camry on coilovers. Get your head straight, man.

[Raza]

A Camry, even a lowered one, is nothing like an AMG or M car.  Don't be ridiculous.  It's fine to want what you want, but if I called my Z4 "basically the same as an open top Wrangler" offroad, you'd think I'd lost my mind. 

[12,000 RPM]

Quick, planted, decent handling. Close enough for me

A Camry V6 on coilovers is closer to a Lexus F-car than your Z4 is to a Wrangler for sure.

[FoMoJo]

For God's sake just get the Focus ST and stop trying to fool yourself that a Camry would ever be a satisfactory drive for a car enthusiast.

[Raza]

Quick, planted, decent handling. Close enough for me

Is it? 

A Camry V6 on coilovers is closer to a Lexus F-car than your Z4 is to a Wrangler for sure.

Is it?



Look, if you want it, you want it.  Get it.  Just don't pretend it's something that it's not. 

[Tave]

The Lexus ES and RX are the only Camry descendants.

It's going to feel like a Camry without enough travel.

[12,000 RPM]

Is it? 


Is it?



Look, if you want it, you want it.  Get it.  Just don't pretend it's something that it's not.

Why? What will happen if I do?

[Raza]

Why? What will happen if I do?

You'll seem ridiculous. 

[12,000 RPM]

You'll seem ridiculous.

I don't already? What's the downside? I'm actually enjoying it

[Eye of the Tiger]

I actually think the Camry is a good car for you. It suits your personality. It is reliable and will get you from A to B. You don't really have to drive it, it just goes so you can think about other things, like what your next car will be again.

[Raza]

I don't already? What's the downside? I'm actually enjoying it

Have you looked at a Prius V yet?

[Cookie Monster]

I'm not going to lie, I've seen a pretty nicely modified Prius C running around here and it looks pretty dope...

[Raza]

I'm not going to lie, I've seen a pretty nicely modified Prius C running around here and it looks pretty dope...

Perfect for Sporty!