Car for wife [updated]

[ifcar]

My wife is moving to the U.S. from Italy at last in early November. It won't be the first thing we do, but in the next couple of months or so we'll be getting her a car. She'll be coming out of a 2007 Hyundai Atos Prime, a little car that has 64 horsepower, is taller than it is wide, and has plenty of window glass. It could barely do the speed limit on a highway set to 110 (68 mph). She loves it.



We won't be looking to spend over $10,000 and will ideally be spending less. Being European, she strongly prefers a hatchback (ideally five-door) and strongly prefers a manual. She's not especially discerning about cars, but does really appreciate a high seating position relative to the dashboard. Good gas mileage will be a plus as well, and a decent reliability record is a must. She doesn't want anything older than her current car (2007) or high-mileage. Either roomy or really small will each have their pluses -- more maneuverable now vs. more kid-friendly for the future. She's not picky about any feature except a/c and power windows and locks, and expects to be retrofitting Android Auto.

Our first step is going to be to go to Carmax and sit in a wide variety of cars to get her impressions, as it's hard for me to guess what seating positions will feel good to her with the seat raised up as high as she wants. She's complained that the passenger seat in a Kia Optima I was testing was too low for her tastes, but that was a fixed position. Once we know which cars she especially prefers, which ones she'd accept if they're cheap enough, and which are basically ruled out, we'll scan the listings in earnest for the specific car she'd buy.

Using her criteria, I've found various listings at different times to send to her. Some of those cars, and her impressions when she's had any:

- Suzuki SX4. Her hands-down favorite based on looks; she finds it very endearing in a rugged but not macho sort of way. The cons are relatively limited availability especially with a manual, and relatively poor gas mileage.

- Kia Soul. She doesn't love the look and gas mileage isn't terrific, but it's got the high seating position and plenty of room, and I've reliably seen affordable listings.

- Chevrolet Spark. It seems like the most logical choice, as something that's cheap, widely available, and similar to her current car, but she thinks it looks especially cheap. It's still remaining on our list -- presumably a first-gen, though, as the new one didn't seem to impress her enough to merit attention at the upper limit of our price range. 

- Mitsubishi Mirage. In my opinion, it looks much cheaper than the Spark, but she finds it unobjectionable. It also has better mileage. I think the seating position might be a little lower, but we'll find out from her. It's slow, but she's one of the few potential buyers who'd be coming off something even slower.

- Mazda2. I'm rooting for it myself, but we'll see whether anything about it stands out to her. The clutch is on the touchy side, which may annoy her.

- Scion xB (second gen). She likes the styling, and it scores well for reliability. Not great mileage, though, and I'm not sure how high she can raise the seat to minimize the tall dashboard.

- Scion xD. Manuals don't pop up consistently, but there's nothing terrible about it if one shows up at the right price.

- Nissan Cube. I don't think I've actually sent her any, as manual Cubes don't pop up often, but it should meet the criteria decently. One concern is that we have a driveway that's just one car wide and may often need to be filled tightly, which would make the swing-out cargo door an annoyance.

- Nissan Versa (first gen). Roomy, decently fuel-efficient, decently cheap. Inventory with manuals seems to drop off as the cars get newer, though, probably because buyers who liked manuals increasingly bought one of the other new subcompact options (or gave up and bought automatics). Sadly, although the Versa Note would have been great in many ways, you can't get power windows and a manual.

- Hyundai Accent/Kia Rio. The current generation doesn't have an especially high seating position, and the earlier model (with a low dashboard) only came in a five-door in the Rio, which has been hard to find with a manual. But it's possible she'll be able to raise the seat enough in the newer generation, or that she'll like an Accent three-door at the right price.

- Honda Fit. They tend to be on the pricey side and the long nose is the opposite of what she drives now, but if she does especially like it from sitting in it, we may try to swing it.

- Toyota Yaris. Three-door only with the manual, and a lot of the ones I've seen don't have power windows, but she likes the looks and is reassured by her brother's positive experience with an older model. It's a possibility, but probably something else with a five-door will be the final choice.

- Ford Fiesta. She doesn't like it especially much, but I've been seeing some at decent prices. The worst reliability issues are hitting the automatic. It's not a front-runner but unless she rules it out from sitting in it, it could work at the right price.

- Chevrolet Sonic. The leading advantage to the Sonic in my opinion is that it feels like a bigger car, and she likes smaller cars. It's another one that's a possibility at the right price, but not a front-runner. It doesn't seem that we'd want to take a chance on the turbo, though, unfortunately.


Updates to follow.

[12,000 RPM]

I would really wait until she gets here and sees what our roads/traffic are like before committing to anything.

That said, aside from the weak ass engine, I really enjoyed the Fit rental I had.

[ifcar]

I would really wait until she gets here and sees what our roads/traffic are like before committing to anything.

That said, aside from the weak ass engine, I really enjoyed the Fit rental I had.

We definitely aren't committing to anything before she's here and helping in the selection process. She'll start out using my car.

[2o6]

I wouldn't buy an orphan - nothing on the Suzuki is really interchangeable with anything else, didn't sell that strongly and it's kind of weird.



gen 2 xB's feel like houses to drive



The Yaris does come in manual 5 door,  but is incredibly rare

[r0tor]

My wife loves our Focus.

[MexicoCityM3]

Element?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Element?

Verily.

[ifcar]

I wouldn't buy an orphan - nothing on the Suzuki is really interchangeable with anything else, didn't sell that strongly and it's kind of weird.

gen 2 xB's feel like houses to drive

The Yaris does come in manual 5 door,  but is incredibly rare

Sorry, I was thinking about the previous-gen Yaris; I should have specified. I don't expect the current one to be in our price range, though we'd look if it is. I'm not that worried about the SX4, because it did sell for an number of years in decent volume, though for sure it's a slight concern. Good to know about the xB; I'd already figured she'd like the seating position less in person, but maybe she'd hate it even worse from the drive.

Element is interesting but I think quite a bit bigger than what she wants, and probably too expensive for decent age/mileage.

[Payman]

Mazda2? I didn't think you guys got those.

[MX793]

Has she spent much time driving in the US?  I think that, being surrounded by midsize and larger SUVs, she may find being in a subcompact a bit intimidating.  Additionally, the preference for a higher seating position is usually for a more commanding view of the road.  In Europe, you don't have the roads flooded with tall SUVs, minivans, and trucks, so a tall subcompact will give you a better than average view of the road over lower subcompacts or even compact class cars.  In the US, not so much...

[ifcar]

Mazda2? I didn't think you guys got those.

We got the first generation; we don't have the new one, but we're shopping used anyway.

Has she spent much time driving in the US?  I think that, being surrounded by midsize and larger SUVs, she may find being in a subcompact a bit intimidating.  Additionally, the preference for a higher seating position is usually for a more commanding view of the road.  In Europe, you don't have the roads flooded with tall SUVs, minivans, and trucks, so a tall subcompact will give you a better than average view of the road over lower subcompacts or even compact class cars.  In the US, not so much...

She's never driven in the U.S., but has spent many weeks here over the years as a passenger. Her concern is less about seeing over traffic and more about seeing comfortably over the dashboard.

[Northlands]

Would an Elantra Gt be considered too large? (2013 )

[ifcar]

Would an Elantra Gt be considered too large?

Too expensive, I think, and no real advantages for what she's looking for. (Unless she does change her mind after sitting in a bunch of cars, which is also possible.)

[Soup DeVille]

Just get her a Crew Cab Pickup and be done with it.

It's what all the European expats end up in anyways. 

[2o6]

Sorry, I was thinking about the previous-gen Yaris; I should have specified. I don't expect the current one to be in our price range, though we'd look if it is. I'm not that worried about the SX4, because it did sell for an number of years in decent volume, though for sure it's a slight concern. Good to know about the xB; I'd already figured she'd like the seating position less in person, but maybe she'd hate it even worse from the drive.

Element is interesting but I think quite a bit bigger than what she wants, and probably too expensive for decent age/mileage.

The five door manual combo does exist - 2009+. I drove one about a year ago. They're very rare, but aside from the syncros being kinda garbage and the clutch/throttle relationship being garbage (the car is kind of impossibly to start smoothly) the car is so solid. I only replaced wear and tear items on the two I had, and the 1.5L is a really reliable car.


And the SX4 is more than a slight concern....Suzuki dealers and parts are nigh impossible and it wasn't even a strong seller anywhere else across the globe. I see a lot of SX4's with blown engines, and because it's such a rare car and a rare engine, that 2.0L is like $2000 just for a junkyard engine.


Be cautious of the Fiesta, too. Most of the issues on the Fiesta are for the auto, but there are other issues too. I remember driving a Fiesta before I bought the sonic that wouldn't stay started.

The mirage isn't a very nice car, but it's super similar to what she's used to. Also, if you wait a few weeks you can probably get one for dirt cheap when the model year changes over. You'd be getting a new car in warranty for the price of these used ones. Depreciation on this car isn't great, tho.

The Mazda 2 is also a good choice.


I would reccomend the 500,  but those things don't stay together very well.

[MrH]

Just get her a Crew Cab Pickup and be done with it.

It's what all the European expats end up in anyways.

The ones I know all bought V8s of some type, because they can't afford it back in Germany. One guy bought a mustang GT, another got a C5 corvette, another got a grand marquis (he wanted to feel like a cop he said).

[ifcar]

The five door manual combo does exist - 2009+. I drove one about a year ago. They're very rare, but aside from the syncros being kinda garbage and the clutch/throttle relationship being garbage (the car is kind of impossibly to start smoothly) the car is so solid. I only replaced wear and tear items on the two I had, and the 1.5L is a really reliable car.


And the SX4 is more than a slight concern....Suzuki dealers and parts are nigh impossible and it wasn't even a strong seller anywhere else across the globe. I see a lot of SX4's with blown engines, and because it's such a rare car and a rare engine, that 2.0L is like $2000 just for a junkyard engine.


Be cautious of the Fiesta, too. Most of the issues on the Fiesta are for the auto, but there are other issues too. I remember driving a Fiesta before I bought the sonic that wouldn't stay started.

The mirage isn't a very nice car, but it's super similar to what she's used to. Also, if you wait a few weeks you can probably get one for dirt cheap when the model year changes over. You'd be getting a new car in warranty for the price of these used ones. Depreciation on this car isn't great, tho.

The Mazda 2 is also a good choice.


I would reccomend the 500,  but those things don't stay together very well.

I'll keep watching for Yarises, then. The SX4 may be something of a moot point because they're hard to come by; there was a point a month or two ago where there were four manual SX4 hatchbacks available in the D.C. area, and presently there appear to be none. It seems like it's worth ruling out the Fiesta from the start, given that it's one she already somewhat dislikes; I'd ruled it out and then saw a bunch that were tempting prices, but hopefully something else emerges instead.

She hates the Fiat 500's seats, and it's also kind of cliche for an Italian to buy a Fiat. She does like the 500L, but it's not on our list due to horrible reliability ratings.

[ifcar]

Just get her a Crew Cab Pickup and be done with it.

It's what all the European expats end up in anyways. 

The ones I know all bought V8s of some type, because they can't afford it back in Germany. One guy bought a mustang GT, another got a C5 corvette, another got a grand marquis (he wanted to feel like a cop he said).

One of her brothers would do something like that in a heartbeat; he's looking forward to renting something in the Mustang class while visiting us. But her car is already small even by European standards and she likes that.

[12,000 RPM]

I feel like $10K will get a ton of newish compact car

I do recall seeing current gen Focus hatches for that much

Also Rustang is the top selling sporty car in Germany.... they're not waiting to get here

[MX793]

I feel like $10K will get a ton of newish compact car

I do recall seeing current gen Focus hatches for that much

Also Rustang is the top selling sporty car in Germany.... they're not waiting to get here

I think you'd be surprised.  Unless you're looking at private party, almost all of the <10K cars around here are 5+ years old.

[ifcar]

I feel like $10K will get a ton of newish compact car

I do recall seeing current gen Focus hatches for that much

Also Rustang is the top selling sporty car in Germany.... they're not waiting to get here

Yeah, but there it's selling to someone who'd have otherwise needed to buy a BMW rather than someone who could just get a Camry.

To be clear about the $10,000, that's the max price for if something is especially appealing. As long as there's something she likes that's less, I think that's where she'll go. And I don't see anything about a Focus et al that would especially appeal to her, given her priorities. (Though she'll be stuck driving mine for a while.)


One idea I'd toyed with early on was getting my parents' 2004 xB, which would seem perfect for her preferences and would minimize expenses while she's still job-hunting. But it turned out to be in rougher shape than I'd realized. They did sink some money into it just last week, but it looks unlikely.

[cawimmer430]

I HAD NO IDEA YOU WERE EVEN MARRIED!

You're full of surprises! I remember the days when we all thought you were some kind of automated robot software designed by the company "IFCAR"... 

[Madman]

My sub-$10K 2011 MINI Cooper hasn't missed a beat.  If she's looking for something small and fun, I highly recommend it.

If you frequent my SOTW thread, you'll know Fiat 500s are ridiculously cheap these days.  Your criteria closely mirrors the SOTW parameters, so stuff like the Yaris, Fiesta, etc are definitely on the radar screen.  The real trick is finding a well-equipped one with a manual, which is nigh-on impossible in some cars (ie Versa Note).

US-spec 500s supposedly have comfier seats, so she may like them better than the seats in the Euro-models she's tried.  There's no shortage of well-equipped manual 500s, either.  Get an extended warranty if you're really concerned about the (frankly overblown) reliability concerns and let her embrace her Italian heritage!

[Raza]

Mazda2? I didn't think you guys got those.

My friend has had his Mazda2 on a track several times.  Road Atlanta is the one he goes to most of the time, I believe. 

[CJ]

Certified pre-owned Accent. Done.

[AutobahnSHO]

fun times!!   (Car shopping)

I think CarMax is a good idea, just to be able to jump from car to car to car to car. Maybe start perusing what comes up on Craigslist to see what's available and what she likes?

And the used car market sure is different now than pre-2008.... 

[ifcar]

Certified pre-owned Accent. Done.

I don't think the current Accent has an especially high seating position relative to the dashboard, which is pretty much her main criterion besides price/condition/reliability/fuel economy. We'll certainly see how high we can raise the seat, but I don't have especially high hopes. It's a pity, because I do like the Accent.

fun times!!   (Car shopping)

I think CarMax is a good idea, just to be able to jump from car to car to car to car. Maybe start perusing what comes up on Craigslist to see what's available and what she likes?

And the used car market sure is different now than pre-2008.... 

Yeah, I've been checking off and on and sending her links, but any specific car that's listed now will probably be sold before she's ready to buy.

[r0tor]

I understand the European appeal of a subcompact, however in America they can feel a bit frightening for women and there is usually a pretty large quality and feature gap between a subcompact and equivalent compact car for little actual size or price difference.

[ifcar]

I understand the European appeal of a subcompact, however in America they can feel a bit frightening for women and there is usually a pretty large quality and feature gap between a subcompact and equivalent compact car for little actual size or price difference.

We'll see if she feels differently once she's driving here, yeah. The first thing she drives will be my 2007 Focus, which as a passenger she has always described as seeming big to her.

As far as intimidation, the roads near her house have plenty of 18-wheelers (in narrow lanes at that), so it's not like she's only used to going up against a bicycle and a Smart. But we won't be buying anything before she's driving here.

[CaminoRacer]

If she buys a small car and ends up wanting something bigger, it's easy to sell and get something else. I wouldn't worry about it.

Personally I'd get a Sonic or Focus.