Alfa Giulia First Drive C&D

[ifcar]

Doesnt have to be.... Lexus ES and Acura TLX outsell the A4 handily. I said it a million times, $40-50K luxury car market doesn't give a shit about dynamics; if they did the ATS wouldn't have tanked. Epsilon II is more than good enough... just look at the Lacrosse :)

A better looking SWB/LWB XTS plug in hybrid is the only way forward for Caddy. Put a hatch on it and call it the Seville :)

The way forward would be to do what they're doing except without execution flaws like cramped interiors, crappy infotainment, and lousy engines that sully the good aspects of the product, and with updates more meaningful than a redesigned badge or confusing new name to keep them fresh. Then they have to actually keep doing it, investing for the long haul.

Or they could scrap any progress they've made and mimic Lincoln, the envy of the industry for its insightful decision that rebadges make for a successful luxury brand.

That's not to say that Cadillac would suffer terribly from having an ES competitor. Lexus has the IS and ES both, after all. But as I've said before, you're advocating a very Old GM approach of "if a product doesn't succeed, it's because nothing about it was a good idea." It only takes one flaw to drive away a customer, and the ATS has several. It's not people saying "I hate handling."

[Submariner]

It was never going to be a top seller, but it's one appeal (besides styling), was the whole Italian passion thing. By not offering a manual because "people aren't buying them" shows FCA and Alfa are run by morons. The people attracted to this car want a stick, and I think they killed their sales with this idiotic decision. NOBODY is going to buy an automatic Alfa Romeo.

Yeah, but people can have their Italian passion-lite. 

A similar drivetrain combo is knocking it out of the park for Maserati.  Why would it not work here?

[12,000 RPM]

ifcar/2o6- you are right that they should probably keep building the ATS/CTS and they already have a version of the car in the Lacrosse/XTS. Maybe a ES competitor would be it. But it's gotta slot under & be smaller than the XTS. I've been fucking around with bootleg PS and basically fixed the XTS looks....





Obviously GM would have to do more tweaking but the proportions look way better, and IMO it looks better than the ATS. With less wheelgap :ricer: and a full on fastback (couldn't get GIMP to play nice) they'd have something interesting IMO. Between my concept and the ATS I think my concept would sell more and be more profitable for GM

[12,000 RPM]

As for the Alfa... would be cool if they made something 5 series sized that didn't cost Maserati money.

[68_427]

Yea, first impressions seem pretty good too. Shame about the rear legroom

Y'all keep complaining about cars getting bigger then complain about rear seat space and truck space

[68_427]

This car is going to flop.

It's selling decently in Europe already, and I know Italy is a small market but it's outselling the rest of the class 6-7x over

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Are we not getting the sexy wheels on the Red car?????? 

[Raza]

No manual means I'm out.  Might as well be an SUV. 

[12,000 RPM]

Y'all keep complaining about cars getting bigger then complain about rear seat space and truck space

Because the cars keep getting bigger without gaining more rear seat + trunk space

If a 4 seat car can't fit 4 average adult males it shouldn't weigh 3,500-3,600 lbs.

[Payman]

No manual means I'm out.  Might as well be an SUV. 

Yup.

[Madman]

As for the Alfa... would be cool if they made something 5 series sized that didn't cost Maserati money.

That will be the 2018 Alfetta, which will do battle with the 5er, A6, E Class, XF, etc.

[2o6]

It's selling decently in Europe already, and I know Italy is a small market but it's outselling the rest of the class 6-7x over

Italy is also the only market where Lancia actually exists.

[Rupert]

Looks like Bimmer with an Alfa grill.

[SJ_GTI]

And BMW is pretty much the only one who still offers M/Ts.  The only Audi you can get with a stick these days is the FWD A3 (and probably for not much longer) because "nobody buys them".  Infiniti dropped the MT option on the G/Q60, which was their last MT car because nobody bought them.  Acura purged their lineup of manual gearboxes.  The last Lexus with a stick was the unloved IS250 of a generation ago.  M-B has never offered many M/Ts (at least in the US) and currently offers none.

FWIW Audi announced it is bringing back the 6MT for the regular A4 (no word on the S4 yet). I was surprised they decided to do this. It is clearly aimed at the "sporty" market though, not the economy market. It also seems to really be driving home that it is with the AWD variant, which I assume is a shot at BMW dropping the 6MT from their AWD models.

https://www.audiusa.com/newsroom/news/press-releases/2016/09/2017-audi-a4-six-speed-manual-transmission

2017 Audi A4 will be the only six-speed manual transmission with standard all-wheel drive in the luxury sedan segment

September 21, 2016 | HERNDON, Virginia


•The A4's redesigned six-speed manual transmission features an extensive use of magnesium and a smaller clutch, giving the A4 an improved power-to-weight ratio
•The Sport plus package includes S line interior, dynamic steering, sport adaptive suspension, and 18" wheels with summer tires for maximum performance from an A4
•The 2017 A4 with manual transmission sprints from 0-60 in 5.7 seconds, a 0.7 second improvement over the previous generation



The 2017 Audi A4 with available six-speed manual transmission and quattro® with ultra® technology, and exclusive Sport plus package offers the design and performance of an S model in an entry level variant. No other luxury manufacturer in the A4's competitive segment offers a manual transmission sedan with all-wheel drive capability.

The greater performance enabled by the newly-redesigned, six-speed manual transmission is due primarily to its spur-gear stage which replaces the shaft to the front-axle differential used on the previous models. The 2017 A4 with six-speed manual sprints from 0-60 mph in 5.7 seconds, an improvement of 0.7 seconds over the previous generation.

Extensive use of magnesium, combined with open gearwheels, hollow shafts and a smaller clutch, reduce the weight of the transmission by 35.3 pounds compared to its predecessor, and further serve to enhance performance by giving the A4 an improved power-to-weight ratio.

Exclusively available on the A4 quattro manual is a Sport plus package featuring flow formed cast aluminum 18" 5-double-spoke-star design wheels, available Daytona Gray exterior paint, S line leather/Alcantara® interior with sport seats, stainless steel pedal caps, flat-bottom steering wheel and brushed aluminum decorative inlays. Also included is Audi dynamic steering and sport adaptive suspension (-23mm ride height), both of which were previously reserved only for S4 models.

The new six-speed manual transmission complements the performance produced by the A4's 2.0 TFSI® engine which generates 252 hp and 273 lb-ft of torque. A significant weight savings was achieved across the A4 model-line through the lightweight construction. The front five-link suspension continues to allow for greater steering precision and excellent handling through optimized steering-rack placement direct at wheel centers.

The A4 with manual transmission also features a new quattro all-wheel drive system with ultra technology that is optimized for fully-variable torque distribution and efficiency. The new drivetrain utilizes an electronically controlled multi-plate clutch at the rear end of the transmission along with an integrated decoupler in the rear axle differential and weighs 8.8 pounds less than the previous quattro system. This quattro system with ultra technology allows for intelligent, proactive control of the all-wheel drive system to predictively modify the torque application as the driving situation or road conditions require.

For customers who do not prefer the traditional manual-shifting driving experience, the 2017 A4 is also available with a seven-speed S tronic® dual-clutch automatic transmission with front-wheel drive or available quattro® all-wheel drive.

Pricing Detail:
Model year 2017 A4 Manual starting manufacturer suggested retail prices; on sale fall 2016.

[12,000 RPM]

They're gonna cancel it again when no dealers order them to keep in stock and nobody wants to order one without a test drive

[Raza]

FWIW Audi announced it is bringing back the 6MT for the regular A4 (no word on the S4 yet). I was surprised they decided to do this. It is clearly aimed at the "sporty" market though, not the economy market. It also seems to really be driving home that it is with the AWD variant, which I assume is a shot at BMW dropping the 6MT from their AWD models.

https://www.audiusa.com/newsroom/news/press-releases/2016/09/2017-audi-a4-six-speed-manual-transmission

Ha lay loo ya! It's not over yet. And 252hp and a 6MT with a good sport package might be a pretty quick and efficient AWD daily driver.

[12,000 RPM]

Hopefully they Do The Right Thing™ with the S4. Something still bothers me about a 50K car with a 4 banger, even if said 4 banger outperforms V8s from 10 years ago (true story- look at the A6 2.0 vs the old V8s)

[r0tor]

Too bad they destroyed Quattro on the a4

[Payman]

This segment kills me. It's like finding a woman with a gorgeous face, but she's got no tits. Or she has a smoking hot body, but bad teeth and a lazy eye.

[Eye of the Tiger]

This segment kills me. It's like finding a woman with a gorgeous face, but she's got no tits. Or she has a smoking hot body, but bad teeth and a lazy eye.

This one has a hot body and a nice face, but doesn't listen.

[Rich]

They did their first test and it was a page long orgasm over the car.

They even said it's flat out the best in class

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-test-review

[Laconian]

They did their first test and it was a page long orgasm over the car.

They even said it's flat out the best in class

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-test-review

Wow...

[Rich]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpc0FBxh-hc

[68_427]

Was waiting for that video to go public^

[Submariner]

Was waiting for that video to go public^

The bearded guy is unbearable. 

[MX793]

I find it really interesting that this car uses a completely different engine from the Ghibli.

[12,000 RPM]

Meanwhile the mainstream FCA offerings slave away with engines older than me. You gotta love Sergio's wisdom

[MX793]

Meanwhile the mainstream FCA offerings slave away with engines older than me. You gotta love Sergio's wisdom

The Pentastar V6 is pretty new.  It was, in fact, the basis for the Ghibli's V6.

[12,000 RPM]

The Pentastar V6 is pretty new.  It was, in fact, the basis for the Ghibli's V6.

The FIRE engines are not.

[Laconian]

I accidentally turned on the automatic closed captions. Holy balls it's good.