Luxury sedan segment is in trouble o

[12,000 RPM]

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2017/01/usa-luxury-car-sales-stats-december-2016-year-end.html

I was going to update the "Alpha platform can't catch a break" but looking at this data it appears they aren't alone. Don't get me wrong- they are still in more trouble than others- ATS + CTS are down 20% vs ~12% for the small/medium segment and the Camero is down 35% from last year (though the Challenger and Mustang did no better)

But there are pretty much no winners. 3, C, 5? All down by double digits. Brand new E is down by 9%. In fact its easier to talk about the winners..... Infiniti Q50/Q60 (which were really just flat), new A4, 2 series, new XF, XC70 wagon. Everything else got reamed

On the upside CT6 seems to be doing well..... sadly outselling the less expensive CTS. Hmm. Maybe GM should consolidate the ATS/CTS into one model. Offer something CTS sized for 3 series money. Call it... the CTS! But yea this was a bit alarming. I said on TTAC the sedan has become the new coupe; crossovers are just curbstomping them in practicality and creeping up on them in value and fuel economy

[MX793]

January is never a great month for car sales.  Winter weather tends to keep people from car lots over much of the country.

[12,000 RPM]

Numbers Im speaking to are for the whole year of 2016. By comparison subcompact/compact/medium luxury CUVs were all up. Compact luxury CUVs were up 26%

Going by scalar numbers it's pretty interesting..... small + medium luxury sedans lost 123K; small + medium luxury crossovers gained 131K. Looks like people are ending their leases in sedans and moving right into crossovers

[Payman]

January is never a great month for car sales.  Winter weather tends to keep people from car lots over much of the country.

Yeah, but when you compare them to LAST January...

[giant_mtb]

Honda Ridgeline sales are up %204,150 compared to 2015.

[veeman]

I can't ever see myself buying a sedan as a family car.  Once the kids get older, I'll still want an SUV to drive with grandkids (I hope).  A future Tesla type sedan over a Tesla type SUV I could do though.  Likely better range and driving dynamics.

[Morris Minor]

I can't ever see myself buying a sedan as a family car.  Once the kids get older, I'll still want an SUV to drive with grandkids (I hope).  A future Tesla type sedan over a Tesla type SUV I could do though.  Likely better range and driving dynamics.

I will not be buying another sedan. When the time comes to replace the G37, it will be with a 2-row SUV, with as many driving automation & collision avoidance gizmos optioned in as possible.

[FoMoJo]

I will not be buying another sedan. When the time comes to replace the G37, it will be with a 2-row SUV, with as many driving automation & collision avoidance gizmos optioned in as possible.

Plenty of these on the market to choose from.  The advantage, other than elevated driving position, more comfortable seating, is entry and egress of old bones in not having to sink to a lower position.

[68_427]

I will not be buying another sedan. When the time comes to replace the G37, it will be with a 2-row SUV, with as many driving automation & collision avoidance gizmos optioned in as possible.

NOOOOOO get a QX50

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Numbers Im speaking to are for the whole year of 2016. By comparison subcompact/compact/medium luxury CUVs were all up. Compact luxury CUVs were up 26%

Going by scalar numbers it's pretty interesting..... small + medium luxury sedans lost 123K; small + medium luxury crossovers gained 131K. Looks like people are ending their leases in sedans and moving right into crossovers

SUVs/CUVs and Pick Ups are the new "Luxury" vehicles. And to be honest there are very few sedans that I would spend my money on! Especially AFFORDABLE sedans........

[Vinsanity]

To be completely honest, there's not much extra that a luxury car offers that you can't get in a fully-loaded mainstream car nowadays. Case in point, Infiniti Q50 vs. Nissan Maxima. What does the Infiniti offer that you can't get in a Maxima? RWD. Ok, and a conventional automatic. But the truth is that very few normal people care about those things. But what I did notice when comparing the two cars at the auto show was that the Maxima had a fancier/more modern looking interior (IMO at least)...and people will definitely care about that.

[93JC]

Camero

C'mon, son!

[GoCougs]

To be completely honest, there's not much extra that a luxury car offers that you can't get in a fully-loaded mainstream car nowadays. Case in point, Infiniti Q50 vs. Nissan Maxima. What does the Infiniti offer that you can't get in a Maxima? RWD. Ok, and a conventional automatic. But the truth is that very few normal people care about those things. But what I did notice when comparing the two cars at the auto show was that the Maxima had a fancier/more modern looking interior (IMO at least)...and people will definitely care about that.

For the last ~15 years the poser class has had a dubious value proposition for most buyers (= non enthusiasts) - it's mostly about the badge so outside that "requirement" most such buyers would be far better served by a loaded Camcord. Now what with the new Maxima, upcoming new Camry, and even the current Accord, the value proposition is slimmer than ever. Really, the only real material value of the poser class to the average buyer is AWD.

Q50 interior is indeed sucky, esp. the infotainment and just the whole of the Q50 is a disappointment, even the RS 400. So much potential but Infiniti blew it - from first (G37) to near last (just ahead of the TLX) in the poser class.

[Laconian]

IMO the value of the "poser class" is RWD. Mainstream buyers are too scurred about the rear wheels being driven.

[MX793]

I have a feeling that when the auto loan bubble finally bursts, we'll see more distinction between mainstream and premium brands again as mainstream marques go back to relatively basic equipment levels to keep prices affordable.

[GoCougs]

I have a feeling that when the auto loan bubble finally bursts, we'll see more distinction between mainstream and premium brands again as mainstream marques go back to relatively basic equipment levels to keep prices affordable.

That's the thing, Camcords are already very affordable - in fact the most affordable of any segment - nowhere else does a buyer's dollar go further. During the last bust what we saw (esp. in the Camry and Accord) was simply a stall.

What I envision is that premium brands will eschew their poser bait (CLA, 1er, etc.) and oddities (5er GT, GLC coupe, etc.).

[12,000 RPM]

Yea, the next bubble pop will cut the chaff for sure. The overwhelming amount of choice in luxury dealers is already beginning to backfire. Most BMW/MB dealerships can't possibly keep 1 of every model on site. What little niche remains will be in the crossover realm where demand warrants it.

[2o6]

A great deal of people order their car.

[Submariner]

A great deal of people order their car.

I want a GLC 760 X Sport S line five door seven seat coupe-vertible

[Galaxy]

I want a GLC 760 X Sport S line five door seven seat coupe-vertible

This is the closest I could come up with.

[Submariner]

No 6x6 turbo diesel gas V24?  No thanks. 

[ChrisV]

I'll be keeping my sedan, thank you. With a Suburban in the fleet, there's no need to replace the BMW with a crossover. And I'd rather daily the sedan than an SUV/CUV. And carry the grandkids around in the BMW, too.

I also prefer the styling of a good sedan like the E38 over a 2 box SUV/CUV.

[MrH]

Im all about dat 2 BOX LIFE

[BimmerM3]

NOOOOOO get a QX50

God, I hate Infiniti's new naming scheme. I have no fucking clue what car that is.

[cawimmer430]

God, I hate Infiniti's new naming scheme. I have no fucking clue what car that is.

It's weird how their 3-Series fighter now has a badging that is closer to this...

[12,000 RPM]

I'll be keeping my sedan, thank you. With a Suburban in the fleet, there's no need to replace the BMW with a crossover. And I'd rather daily the sedan than an SUV/CUV. And carry the grandkids around in the BMW, too.

I also prefer the styling of a good sedan like the E38 over a 2 box SUV/CUV.

I think you've missed the point completely. Not sure how your 15 year old sedan is relevant to new car sales.

[ChrisV]

I think you've missed the point completely. Not sure how your 15 year old sedan is relevant to new car sales.

"People don't want sedans" Not necessarily true, as the booming used sedan market shows. Manufacturers are switching new manufacturing over to crossovers, advertising them heavily, and pricing their sedans out of the market, so of COURSE new car buyers will gravitate to the better deals that are available in the CUV market, especially as they've been indoctrinated that a pile of crotchfruit needs to be in one in order to be safe. But also look at what regulatory environment makes it more advantageous for the manufactures to make CUVs...

But I won't buy a new crossover any more than I need a used one. But I HAVE bought a new sedan recently, and would do so again.

[MX793]

Yeah, CAFE regs make it more lucrative to make CUVs since the get classified as light trucks.

[MrH]

"People don't want sedans" Not necessarily true, as the booming used sedan market shows. Manufacturers are switching new manufacturing over to crossovers, advertising them heavily, and pricing their sedans out of the market, so of COURSE new car buyers will gravitate to the better deals that are available in the CUV market, especially as they've been indoctrinated that a pile of crotchfruit needs to be in one in order to be safe. But also look at what regulatory environment makes it more advantageous for the manufactures to make CUVs...

But I won't buy a new crossover any more than I need a used one. But I HAVE bought a new sedan recently, and would do so again.

How are sedans being priced out of the market?  You definitely get the best bang for the buck in the Camcord category.

[12,000 RPM]

How are sedans being priced out of the market?  You definitely get the best bang for the buck in the Camcord category.

Yea, exactly what I was going to say. Crossovers also depreciate less, so they are in higher demand on the used market too. It's not CAFE, it's not the manufacturers, it's not some grand Illuminati conspiracy.... it's the market. Crossovers are booming because people want them. Companies that don't build what people want go the way of Suzuki/Lotus/etc.