Tesla

[Morris Minor]

$1k per share... Shouldn't they be bankrupt by now?

A few years ago I told my daughter to start a Roth IRA and stash away a little each month for her later years. Instead, she bought TSLA.  Dad went... 

Tesla is now more valuable than Toyota as stock tops $1,000
https://nypost.com/2020/06/10/tesla-is-worlds-most-valuable-automaker-as-stock-tops-1000/

[Laconian]

Tesla is like a fucking penny stock.

[AutobahnSHO]

Tesla is like a fucking penny stock.

Problem is that it's famous and lots of people have real faith in it (needed for continuous growth) but others are just playing it and shorting it and etc...

[Morris Minor]

Daughter did not buy as a a speculative move, she's an idealistic millennial and genuinely likes what Musk is trying to do. I think this was reinforced when she moved to Saigon - millions of scooters w/ no smog gear.

In the last couple of years I too have come round to the view that we need to stop burning stuff. I think the tech & controls are now mature enough to make renewables feasible and nukes safe. Safe enough at least.

Whether Tesla will thrive or crash & burn, I don't know. But I think they've caught people's imagination - and that's really important. Based on the teardowns of the Model Y, they have implemented a lot of lessons learned from the 3. That's a good sign.

[MrH]

It's unbelievably scammy.  Nikola is just jumping on the Elon playbook.  It's a total failure of the capital markets and SEC.

Nikola is worth more than Ford.  They don't have a plant, have never made a vehicle, and are taking deposits on renders

[afty]

Daughter did not buy as a a speculative move, she's an idealistic millennial and genuinely likes what Musk is trying to do. I think this was reinforced when she moved to Saigon - millions of scooters w/ no smog gear.

We went to Thailand a couple years ago, and the pollution and traffic in Bangkok were just horrible.

[Morris Minor]

We went to Thailand a couple years ago, and the pollution and traffic in Bangkok were just horrible.

Yup - we visited her in Saigon in November. It was nasty. Difficult to tell millions of scooter riders, who earn fuckall on a good day, that they need to be in EVs. There's zero infrastructure there.

[NomisR]

Looks like Morgan Stanley just downgraded Tesla.

[NomisR]

Yup - we visited her in Saigon in November. It was nasty. Difficult to tell millions of scooter riders, who earn fuckall on a good day, that they need to be in EVs. There's zero infrastructure there.

There's a lot of EV Scooters being sold in China with removable battery packs that you can charge off of your outlets at home... which i believe is has the same 220V as Vietnam..  although I've seen pictures of those same battery pack exploding in homes too.

[Char]

I forgot about this thread.


Tesla is a house of cards - weak demand on the 3 and Model Y had them offering incentives. And the slower economy from COVID19 has counties and states cutting their subsides and funding - what is Tesla going to do. They already facing stiff competition and the S/X are already outdated.

What are they going to do?

[Laconian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao5OdiwKp5k

[Morris Minor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao5OdiwKp5k

So youthful. Given Starlink, & the numbers there being pumped into orbit every few weeks, I think the interest satellites is now more than modest.
(Also interesting to hear CNN questions from that era: formulated & pitched at adult level)

[Char]

Elon Musk is a piece of shit.
I can't wait until this shitty brand goes bankrupt.

[r0tor]

I forgot about this thread.


Tesla is a house of cards - weak demand on the 3 and Model Y had them offering incentives. And the slower economy from COVID19 has counties and states cutting their subsides and funding - what is Tesla going to do. They already facing stiff competition and the S/X are already outdated.

What are they going to do?

Stiff competition and outdated?

I read the Jag iPace was going to kill Tesla.  Yea, I think I only ever saw 1 on the road in person - no dent in Tesla. Big 3?  Nothing to challenge Tesla.  Japan?  Nothing to challenge Tesla. Europe?  Maybe the Porsche Taycan finally after 8 years of the Model S being in existence can actually challenge it in luxury, range, and performance. The rest of the Tesla lineup is still unmatched in their class.

[AutobahnSHO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao5OdiwKp5k

Nutty genius. What I find most fascinating is that he has managed to get the funding/ popularity/ support for his ideas.

Imagine someone digging new subway tunnels just to zip cars back and forth 10 years ago.

[Char]

Stiff competition and outdated?

I read the Jag iPace was going to kill Tesla.  Yea, I think I only ever saw 1 on the road in person - no dent in Tesla. Big 3?  Nothing to challenge Tesla.  Japan?  Nothing to challenge Tesla. Europe?  Maybe the Porsche Taycan finally after 8 years of the Model S being in existence can actually challenge it in luxury, range, and performance. The rest of the Tesla lineup is still unmatched in their class.

Stiff competition being new Electric cars (Kia, VW, Renault) that cost less and offer more quality. Tesla's sales are already down all across Europe it comparison to other electric cars.

If by unmatched you mean 'not a piece of shit' I totally agree.

[r0tor]

That's like saying BMW competes with Kia for sales

[SJ_GTI]

We should have a better idea on how this "Tesla" thing works out in the next year or so. They are apparently making deliveries out of their China plant now and are moving forward with another US plant and a EU plant (not sure if they have already settled on Germany or if that is just the expectation). If they get to the point where they are running 4 factories on 3 continents (and making a profit) that would seem like things are on solid ground for them.

For now though I am still not sure I would be willing to buy from them. if GM or Toyota (or any of the established players) where selling the Model 3 (exactly as it is) I would probably be all over it.

[CaminoRacer]

That's like saying BMW competes with Kia for sales

But you're trying to say that Kia doesn't exist and BMW is the only & best carmaker

[MrH]

We should have a better idea on how this "Tesla" thing works out in the next year or so. They are apparently making deliveries out of their China plant now and are moving forward with another US plant and a EU plant (not sure if they have already settled on Germany or if that is just the expectation). If they get to the point where they are running 4 factories on 3 continents (and making a profit) that would seem like things are on solid ground for them.

For now though I am still not sure I would be willing to buy from them. if GM or Toyota (or any of the established players) where selling the Model 3 (exactly as it is) I would probably be all over it.

Supply doesn't create demand.  It's just a waste of capital if the demand isn't there.

[r0tor]

But you're trying to say that Kia doesn't exist and BMW is the only & best carmaker

Different market segments?

[CaminoRacer]

Different market segments?

Since volume is needed to make battery production more viable, to me it makes sense for other automakers to start with the cheaper cars ($30-40k).

And then Porsche is coming from the opposite angle - they wanted to make the best EV so that it would be worthy of the Porsche badge. So they went higher end than Tesla.

[Morris Minor]

We should have a better idea on how this "Tesla" thing works out in the next year or so. They are apparently making deliveries out of their China plant now and are moving forward with another US plant and a EU plant (not sure if they have already settled on Germany or if that is just the expectation). If they get to the point where they are running 4 factories on 3 continents (and making a profit) that would seem like things are on solid ground for them.

For now though I am still not sure I would be willing to buy from them. if GM or Toyota (or any of the established players) where selling the Model 3 (exactly as it is) I would probably be all over it.

It's in Brandenburg, just east of Berlin - supposedly coming on line a year or so from now, for battery packs & the Model Y.
Compared to the US, the regulatory environment is much more favorable to EVs in Europe & China.
In China the ball is well & truly rolling to eliminate ICE cars.

[r0tor]

Since volume is needed to make battery production more viable, to me it makes sense for other automakers to start with the cheaper cars ($30-40k).

And then Porsche is coming from the opposite angle - they wanted to make the best EV so that it would be worthy of the Porsche badge. So they went higher end than Tesla.

Easier to start up an EV program selling a limited amount of high profit vehicles than trying to sell a large amount of low profit vehicles while having to deal with the headaches of battery supply chain issues that has plagued basically everyone starting out in the game.

[Speed_Racer]

The Kizashi has been booted out of the garage for a couple of days and this is in its place. I rented my GF a Model 3 from Turo as a b-day present. Buying a Tesla has been a long-term goal for her for a long time, and now that she's getting ready to sell her Mazda 3 it's car shopping season.

She loves the Autopilot features and the clean cockpit. From my POV though I'm super underwhelmed. 2018 dual-motor long range w/ 60k miles and it has quite a few rattles, the typical Tesla misaligned body panels, significant road & wind noise, clunky suspension. She was disappointed with the ride quality and noise as well. Whoever decided to remove all buttons & knobs and move them to the touchscreen is an idiot. What a pain. The whole car is a thumbs down from me.

[AutobahnSHO]

Interesting. I see tons of them around the DC area. TONS!

[MrH]

I wouldn't trust autopilot at all.  Shit is outrageously dangerous and a total failure of the NHTSA.

[Speed_Racer]

I'm not a fan of them "beta" testing on features out in the wild. I'm also not a fan of all their quirky secret features. Less time on goofy stuff, more time on a better cabin experience please.

[Laconian]

What does your GF think about it? Are you keeping mum about your preferences?

[Speed_Racer]

Lol I gave her my two cents, but in my defense she asked. Granted, this is all her and I rarely drive her car anyways so I don't want her putting much weight into my opinions.

She went on a long drive today and told me that on a bad stretch of freeway it was loud and bouncing her around. She was surprised it wouldn't be a more luxurious ride considering how much they cost. She drives ~15k mi/yr so a quiet, smooth ride is high on her preference list since she's tired of the noise in her Mazda. She has one more day w/ the Tesla rental, but right now she thinks she will postpone the Tesla goal until she's shopping for her next-next car (in 5 yrs).