Tesla

[12,000 RPM]

It probably does, but we also know just a heavier clutch, driveshaft or wheels will slow a vehicle down. Could also be there's some torque management going on.

I do recall driving Hondas with lightened flywheels back in the day. The biggest difference was felt in on/off throttle. Once the car was at WOT it mostly felt the same.

[r0tor]

I did the analysis back in my college days... A lightened flywheel was worth 5-10 hp in lower gears, pretty much useless as far as acceleration is concerned

[NomisR]

I know I shouldn't have but I put in an order for a Model 3 Performance because my Bolt lease is expiring at the end of the year..

[afty]

I know I shouldn't have but I put in an order for a Model 3 Performance because my Bolt lease is expiring at the end of the year..

Excellent!  Welcome to the club. 

[NomisR]

Excellent!  Welcome to the club. 

I ordered blue but my wife is trying to convince me to switch to midnight metallic silver.. i'm on the fence with that one.

[FoMoJo]

I know I shouldn't have but I put in an order for a Model 3 Performance because my Bolt lease is expiring at the end of the year..

More than double the bhp, should be fun.

[Morris Minor]

I know I shouldn't have but I put in an order for a Model 3 Performance because my Bolt lease is expiring at the end of the year..

Many congratulations. 

[NomisR]

More than double the bhp, should be fun.

Yeah, when I test drove it, the acceleration was enough to make me feel nauseous as the drive.. it's awesome!  It's also double the weight of the Lotus.

Many congratulations. 

It was definitely something I never thought I would do..

[Morris Minor]

Yeah, when I test drove it, the acceleration was enough to make me feel nauseous as the drive.. it's awesome!  It's also double the weight of the Lotus.

It was definitely something I never thought I would do..

What's the lead time?
Also I've seen anecdotes that the Performance version's 20" wheels are easily damaged  - wondered if that had come up on your radar?

[CaminoRacer]

A fairly base Model 3 is somewhat tempting. The other affordable EVs are all more in the crossover genre so it's the only sedan option unless I'm forgetting something. (Taycan doesn't count it's big $)

[NomisR]

What's the lead time?
Also I've seen anecdotes that the Performance version's 20" wheels are easily damaged  - wondered if that had come up on your radar?

Right now I'm looking at around mid Sept to Mid Oct, which is around the time when my lease expires.  I'm probably expecting end of Sept since that's the end of the quarter.

The 20" cracking was with the old sports wheels that they replaced with the current Uberturbine.  Unfortunately, they're still all flow formed over weight stuff that's horrible for performance so I'll be replacing them with something lighter.  Selling the stocks should help me recover most of the costs. 

[NomisR]

A fairly base Model 3 is somewhat tempting. The other affordable EVs are all more in the crossover genre so it's the only sedan option unless I'm forgetting something. (Taycan doesn't count it's big $)

Yeah exactly.. main reason why I went with the Model 3 is because there's not a lot of "fun" options.  Most will be out in a couple of years but nothing out in the immediate future.  I don't want to drive a cross over. 

[Morris Minor]

Right now I'm looking at around mid Sept to Mid Oct, which is around the time when my lease expires.  I'm probably expecting end of Sept since that's the end of the quarter.

The 20" cracking was with the old sports wheels that they replaced with the current Uberturbine.  Unfortunately, they're still all flow formed over weight stuff that's horrible for performance so I'll be replacing them with something lighter.  Selling the stocks should help me recover most of the costs. 

Given the drive for efficiency & to "add lightness" I'm surprised they use clunky heavyweights for wheels.

[Morris Minor]

Yeah exactly.. main reason why I went with the Model 3 is because there's not a lot of "fun" options.  Most will be out in a couple of years but nothing out in the immediate future.  I don't want to drive a cross over. 

The Model 2 sketches look like it's a hatchback - fine for Europe & China, but we love crossovers in the USA.

[MrH]

Congrats, but uh....don't say I didn't warn you

[SJ_GTI]

The Model 2 sketches look like it's a hatchback - fine for Europe & China, but we love crossovers in the USA.

Not me, I definitely prefer a hatchback. The VW ID.3, which is Europe only, probably would have gotten me to make the switch if it was sold in the US. I am pretty skeptical of Tesla, but if they introduced a smaller (than the Model 3) hatchback in the US that would almost certainly get me to switch over.

[CaminoRacer]

I'd love it if my Bolt was closer to the ground. It's a tall hatchback, I'd prefer a VW Golf sized hatchback.

I think most companies are doing tall hatchbacks/CUVs/trucks first because the packaging is easier with the battery in the floor and they don't have to put much effort into slimming things down. Most of the lower vehicles have been sub-100 mile range EVs with smaller batteries.

[12,000 RPM]

Yea I hate that all the affordable non Tesla EVs are quasi CUVs. Well except for the Ioniq. I want something like the i4 at half its price

[NomisR]

Given the drive for efficiency & to "add lightness" I'm surprised they use clunky heavyweights for wheels.

Cost reasons probably, yet they sell it for way too much money.   The stock 20s were at 32lbs per corner, i'm looking to get 19s that's around 20, so i should be saving around 10lbs per corner give or take, that should help with acceleration.

Congrats, but uh....don't say I didn't warn you

I know exactly what you mean which is why I preface it with I know I shouldn't   I've been watching these teardown videos of the Model 3 on Youtube and it seems like Tesla has improved quite a bit between 2018 and 2021.. this seems to be right in line with your level of expertise too..

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkiDlGyJnpredjGIe_oFroQOZSxUhIZdm

I actually want to know what you think... they also

[Morris Minor]

Cost reasons probably, yet they sell it for way too much money.   The stock 20s were at 32lbs per corner, i'm looking to get 19s that's around 20, so i should be saving around 10lbs per corner give or take, that should help with acceleration.

I know exactly what you mean which is why I preface it with I know I shouldn't   I've been watching these teardown videos of the Model 3 on Youtube and it seems like Tesla has improved quite a bit between 2018 and 2021.. this seems to be right in line with your level of expertise too..

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkiDlGyJnpredjGIe_oFroQOZSxUhIZdm

I actually want to know what you think... they also

It'll improve the ride & give a bit of range too.
I watch those teardown videos too - the early Model 3s were a manufacturing dog's breakfast - they apparently got the message though. Learn, & get the accuracy & tolerances that come with simplifying.

[CaminoRacer]

My Enkei PF01s are flow formed and lightweight.

[NomisR]

It'll improve the ride & give a bit of range too.
I watch those teardown videos too - the early Model 3s were a manufacturing dog's breakfast - they apparently got the message though. Learn, & get the accuracy & tolerances that come with simplifying.

I don't think i'll get a lot if any range from it only because the new wheels are probably going to be less aerodynamic than stock.. i'll also be going a little bit wider. 

My Enkei PF01s are flow formed and lightweight.

It's YMMV depending on the manufacturer for sure, the Weds TC105x I was looking at is definitely light and supposedly strong for flow formed.  But Tesla didn't go that directly likely for cost reasons.  Although I've heard their wheels are "forged", their weights are more in line with flow formed or cast.

[MrH]

Cost reasons probably, yet they sell it for way too much money.   The stock 20s were at 32lbs per corner, i'm looking to get 19s that's around 20, so i should be saving around 10lbs per corner give or take, that should help with acceleration.

I know exactly what you mean which is why I preface it with I know I shouldn't   I've been watching these teardown videos of the Model 3 on Youtube and it seems like Tesla has improved quite a bit between 2018 and 2021.. this seems to be right in line with your level of expertise too..

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkiDlGyJnpredjGIe_oFroQOZSxUhIZdm

I actually want to know what you think... they also

I'll watch them later. Looking at the link though, these are all Sandy Munro videos. The dude has absolutely zero credibility. He's admitted to buy Tesla stock and how much he's made off of it. He pumps Tesla stock all day now that he's an investor. Terribly unethical.

I've known about him since my auto days. People think he's a functional expert on all things manufacturing and quality, when it reality, he's cheap contract labor for OEMs if they want some sort of tear down idea on something. If they want real, in depth knowledge, they do it internally. Their experts in these areas are infinitely more knowledgeable than someone like Sandy Munro.

[MrH]

A Model S plaid has already caught fire. I personally would not trust owning a Tesla, but to each their own I guess.

Feel free to read through #TeslaServiceIssues and #TeslaQualityIssues on Twitter if you want.

[NomisR]

I'll watch them later. Looking at the link though, these are all Sandy Munro videos. The dude has absolutely zero credibility. He's admitted to buy Tesla stock and how much he's made off of it. He pumps Tesla stock all day now that he's an investor. Terribly unethical.

I've known about him since my auto days. People think he's a functional expert on all things manufacturing and quality, when it reality, he's cheap contract labor for OEMs if they want some sort of tear down idea on something. If they want real, in depth knowledge, they do it internally. Their experts in these areas are infinitely more knowledgeable than someone like Sandy Munro.

Awesome, I knew I could get some insight on this from you.   I usually take everything pro-Tesla with a grain of salt because their owners are like a bunch of fanbois similar to Apple fanbois. 

I want to know what you think of his comments though if you have time.

A Model S plaid has already caught fire. I personally would not trust owning a Tesla, but to each their own I guess.

Feel free to read through #TeslaServiceIssues and #TeslaQualityIssues on Twitter if you want.

Yeah i'm following different groups and even on reddit such as r/RealTesla, which is really critical of Tesla.  90% of the negatives regarding Tesla isn't a huge issue for me, partly quality issues which coming from a Lotus Elise, it's not that big of a deal, and partly due to EV related issues for first time owners which I'm fully aware of.  There's some things with FSD and autopilot which I won't really be using or relying so not an issue either.. only thing is glitches like the screen turning off for no reason or random alerts, warnings and error messages could possibly bug me.  We'll see.. if it sucks, the resale is really high so could help.

[NomisR]

Did you do this Mike?  lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Tesla,_Inc.

[CaminoRacer]

Since autopilot is $10k I wouldn't even bother with it. But I can tell that Tesla is using that as their profit maker.

[NomisR]

Since autopilot is $10k I wouldn't even bother with it. But I can tell that Tesla is using that as their profit maker.

Yup, it's vaporware that will never happen.. nor would i trust it enough.  It's also now limited to 75mph and when people had it on and try to speed up to pass people, the car would disable it for the rest of the trip.  It's absolutely stupid.

[MrH]

I'm not the only Tesla skeptic. It's really the first mass scale, financial deep dive that's crowd sourced. It's a huge group.

I don't really care so much about panel gap or things like that. It's more indicative of the bigger issue than being the issue itself. They don't validate their designs worth a damn. The problems Tesla's have on the regular are mind boggling. Shit breaks in totally unacceptable ways. All the infotainment screens melted in model S and X! The SSD read/write too many cycles and totally brick the car. There are just countless things like that I would never put up with. And when some of those types of things are safety related, it's negligent.

[afty]

Yup, it's vaporware that will never happen.. nor would i trust it enough.  It's also now limited to 75mph and when people had it on and try to speed up to pass people, the car would disable it for the rest of the trip.  It's absolutely stupid.

There's FSD which is $10k and Autopilot which comes with the car. The 75 mph thing (soon 80 — https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-pure-vision-autopilot-80-mph-max-speed-update-elon-musk/) is Autopilot, so you'll get that whether you want it or not. I suggest you try it before writing it off.

I don't think we'll ever see working FSD in current Teslas, I don't think the sensor suite is sufficient. I certainly didn't buy it on mine. FWIW, I *do* think we will see real L5 self driving at some point, but more likely from Waymo or Cruise than Tesla.