Tesla

[Submariner]

I'm waiting to hear the defense, or more likely the dismissal.

That being said, I've worked with that company before. They were hired to settle whether a fit problem with sunroofs was my company's fault (Inalfa) or the stamping company's (Magna). While they were generally competent and honest, it was clear their bias was toward Magna from the start (a much larger company that they did much more business with).

So I kinda wonder here; who's paying them to do this?

Heh...the first thing I thought of when I read Munro's responses was, "who is paying this guy to say this?"

[12,000 RPM]

Someone is going to die in this car.

It's their fault for not knowing how their car works.

[CaminoRacer]

Considering the stuff he pointed out, I don't think it matters too much that he was probably paid.

[Soup DeVille]

Considering the stuff he pointed out, I don't think it matters too much that he was probably paid.

Sometimes, its more important what he doesn't say.

But everything he pointed out was pretty bad.

[mzziaz]

So Opel recommends a yearly inspection? That would seem to be a difference to Chevy.

every 30k km iirc, which we do in less than a year

[Laconian]

every 30k km iirc, which we do in less than a year

IIRC it's just for brake pads, tires, and cabin filters.

[mzziaz]

IIRC it's just for brake pads, tires, and cabin filters.

They will probably still charge $500 for it. We'd the miniscule amounts of actual braking needed, I think the pads will last a very long time.

[Morris Minor]

There's going to be a huge increase in the available choice of different EVs and their sales. If only because their running costs are so much lower then ICEs. Europe leads the way, propelled in large part by the bad experience of heading down the dead-end road of diesels, but it will percolate across to the US.

[12,000 RPM]

I don't think maintenance is that big of a deal for people's purchasing decisions. The cost of entry on EVs is still high, and range anxiety is still in play. For us, if I didn't give a shit about driving enjoyment, I'd probably get the EV for my commuting, and then keep the ICE car for wifey to do family stuff like road trips and the like.

[Soup DeVille]

There's going to be a huge increase in the available choice of different EVs and their sales. If only because their running costs are so much lower then ICEs. Europe leads the way, propelled in large part by the bad experience of heading down the dead-end road of diesels, but it will percolate across to the US.

Yes, there will be; and eventually it will become clear that established car companies can do them much better than Tesla, who has gotten this far mostly on hype.

[Morris Minor]

Yes, there will be; and eventually it will become clear that established car companies can do them much better than Tesla, who has gotten this far mostly on hype.

Tesla's got the all smarts for doing cool automotive innovation, battery storage tech and genius marketing. But very little in mass production of automobiles.
I could see them floating off their car division... and one of the big guys snapping it up as a brand.

[r0tor]

It's worth noting that a representative for the company told me over the phone that Munro's biggest automaker clients are the "Big Three."

[AutobahnSHO]

Tesla needs to license out the supercharging. They could charge non-Tesla owners more to charge than Tesla owners (Not impacting sales too much), but still bring in cash.

[giant_mtb]

Wait, his biggest clients are the three biggest producers??  That makes no sense at all!

[MrH]

Considering the stuff he pointed out, I don't think it matters too much that he was probably paid.

Exactly. The shit Tesla gets away with quality wise would get roasted if it were any other car.

Tesla's got the all smarts for doing cool automotive innovation, battery storage tech and genius marketing. But very little in mass production of automobiles.
I could see them floating off their car division... and one of the big guys snapping it up as a brand.

Ultimately, I think that's what's going to happen eventually. They can only keep burning through cash for so long.

The problem is the whole company is founded on the idea of vertical integration and volume to drive down costs. The issue with this is they can't build a car right

If they spin off and become just a motor, battery, and electronic provider, the vertical integration play is gone, and now we're back to expensive electric cars. Essentially the same boat all the big OEMs are in right now.

[r0tor]

Wait, his biggest clients are the three biggest producers??  That makes no sense at all!

Is it really surprising a person who makes their money from the big 3 would trash Tesla (who is the biggest threat to them)

NothingBurgerCentral

[Soup DeVille]

Tesla's got the all smarts for doing cool automotive innovation, battery storage tech and genius marketing. But very little in mass production of automobiles.
I could see them floating off their car division... and one of the big guys snapping it up as a brand.

They've definitely solved some problems that the big guys didn't care to; but bey've got a long ways to go to match them with turning out a complete autmobile.

[CaminoRacer]

Is it really surprising a person who makes their money from the big 3 would trash Tesla (who is the biggest threat to them)

NothingBurgerCentral

Do you deny the issues mentioned?

[r0tor]

No mechanical door handles... Hmm... What does a Corvette have inside?

[Soup DeVille]

No mechanical door handles... Hmm... What does a Corvette have inside?

A stupid design they've already been sued for, and a mechanical emergency release.

[MX793]

Corvette has a mechanical release inside at every door in the event of an electrical failure.  Model 3 only has them on the front.  If the car is for some reason without power (crashed into a body of water, responders cut the power line), the only way to get someone out of the rear seat in a hurry is to cut/tear the doors off or hope they can squeeze through the small rear window opening.  That is a horrendous design.

[12,000 RPM]

Is it really surprising a person who makes their money from the big 3 would trash Tesla (who is the biggest threat to them)

NothingBurgerCentral

So youd be cool putting your kids in a car with no mechanical back door latches?

[Submariner]

Even from a design or technological standpoint...I don't understand the point of electric door releases.  The amount of effort expended to push a button is just ever so slightly less than the pull required on a door handle. 

Tesla should have spent more effort on, say, putting windows on without the use of Elmer's. 

[MX793]

Even from a design or technological standpoint...I don't understand the point of electric door releases.  The amount of effort expended to push a button is just ever so slightly less than the pull required on a door handle. 

Tesla should have spent more effort on, say, putting windows on without the use of Elmer's. 

Electric latches are likely cheaper and easier to package.  No mechanical linkages between the interior/exterior handles and the actual catch.  Just a couple of electrical switches and some wire going to the electro-mechanical latch assembly.

[Soup DeVille]

Electric latches are likely cheaper and easier to package.  No mechanical linkages between the interior/exterior handles and the actual catch.  Just a couple of electrical switches and some wire going to the electro-mechanical latch assembly.

Sounds like something a major automaker with dozens of different models and highly optimized assembly would have realized by now then, rather than one still gluing weatherstripping pieces together.

[MX793]

Sounds like something a major automaker with dozens of different models and highly optimized assembly would have realized by now then, rather than one still gluing weatherstripping pieces together.

I'm sure they have realized it.  They've also realized that electronics fail and a mechanical backup is necessary for both convenience and safety.

[CaminoRacer]

I'm sure they have realized it.  They've also realized that electronics fail and a mechanical backup is necessary for both convenience and safety.

In which case you're not really saving any weight.

[giant_mtb]

In which case you're not really saving any weight.

Or complexity/simplicity in design. Make a skookum mechanical opener and you'll basically never have to worry about it...like they've been doing for, uh, a hundred years...?  ...but electronics!

[r0tor]

So youd be cool putting your kids in a car with no mechanical back door latches?

Actually I put my kid in the back of an RX8 with no exterior rear door handles

[r0tor]

Corvette has a mechanical release inside at every door in the event of an electrical failure.  Model 3 only has them on the front.  If the car is for some reason without power (crashed into a body of water, responders cut the power line), the only way to get someone out of the rear seat in a hurry is to cut/tear the doors off or hope they can squeeze through the small rear window opening.  That is a horrendous design.

Yea, first responders having to go into the trunk to open the front doors is pretty obvious... as is an interior door release on the floor and not on the door. 

By the comments in the vid below "you would be amazed how many calls we get on this" it must be fairly simple for owners to understand.  But this this a well thought out design from an established automaker so it's ok.   

https://youtu.be/DLDqmGQU6L0