Tesla

Started by SJ_GTI, February 23, 2017, 07:11:02 AM

Soup DeVille

Quote from: MrH on April 15, 2018, 08:23:52 AM
Google will just make the software and maybe equipment. Relatively cheap variable cost. Once they nail it down, they'll sell it to oems for $10k a car or something. Building a car is tough, I don't think google wants anything to do with that, right?

I don't know.

Google has taken on some diverse projects already, I wouldn't put it past them.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

Galaxy

All that talk of an apple car seems to have gone away.

GoCougs

Tesla has average to subpar tech across the board - whether manufacturing or in the car itself.

Tesla makes cars in CA/Silicon Valley (= anti business, catastrophically high costs of doing business).

Tesla has dismal financials and terrible track record of delivery on promises and a non-existent product development program (i.e., when will the new Model S launch?).

Tesla is now starting to play catch-up as other automakers enter the EV market - i.e., the Bolt is a better car than the 3, and Tesla could never build such a thing.

Tesla is the biggest short in the US stock market, with some ~25% of its shares shorted.

Tesla enjoys immense amounts of irrational exuberance because it is NOT of any other - i.e., pretty much no one would have bought a Ford or Nissan Model S.

No one will be buying Tesla (at least, pre bankruptcy).

Tave

Tesla sold more electric vehicles in March than the Volt, Bolt, Leaf, i3, eGolf, and Ford models all combined. If they continue their current rate of increase in production they'll add the Prius PHEV and rest of the list in about 2 months.
As I write, highly civilized human beings are flying overhead, trying to kill me.

Quote from: thecarnut on March 16, 2008, 10:33:43 AM
Depending on price, that could be a good deal.

MrH

This isn't exactly breaking news. People have been talking about this for awhile, but now it's coming to light.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-16/analyst-spots-14-billion-hole-teslas-balance-sheet

They're going to be totally out of cash here soon.
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2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
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Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

Soup DeVille

Quote from: Tave on April 16, 2018, 09:49:15 AM
Tesla sold more electric vehicles in March than the Volt, Bolt, Leaf, i3, eGolf, and Ford models all combined. If they continue their current rate of increase in production they'll add the Prius PHEV and rest of the list in about 2 months.

I don't know if clearing out their backlog of pre-orders should be considered sustainable sales.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

MrH

Dominating a tiny, tiny niche sector of the whole while burning unprecedented amounts of cash to do so is probably not worth bragging about.
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2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
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Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

SJ_GTI

Quote from: MrH on April 16, 2018, 01:58:51 PM
This isn't exactly breaking news. People have been talking about this for awhile, but now it's coming to light.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-16/analyst-spots-14-billion-hole-teslas-balance-sheet

They're going to be totally out of cash here soon.

That article just sounds like the writer/analyst doesn't understand how a GR/IR process works.

But who knows, maybe Tesla really is fraudulently under reporting their liabilities. In which case we will surely see Tesla go bankrupt this year and Musk in a courtroom.

MX793

Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
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Soup DeVille

Quote from: MX793 on April 16, 2018, 02:53:33 PM
Saw this pop up in my news feed today.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4163197-elon-musk-buried-tesla-single-tweet

Again the reference to "a crazy complex network of conveyor belts."

Automakers have been moving away from fixed conveyor belts and onto AGVs for years now.

I had assumed Tesla had gone whole hog with that and tried to elimnate chain on edge and power
and free conveyors entirely.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

MX793

Quote from: Soup DeVille on April 16, 2018, 03:49:05 PM
Again the reference to "a crazy complex network of conveyor belts."

Automakers have been moving away from fixed conveyor belts and onto AGVs for years now.

I had assumed Tesla had gone whole hog with that and tried to elimnate chain on edge and power
and free conveyors entirely.

Clearly Musk and company are unfamiliar with what other automakers have been doing since they seemed completely oblivious to the Toyota System.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Laconian

Quote from: giant_mtb on April 16, 2018, 03:07:56 PM
Seems a bit sensationalist-y.

seekingalpha features a lot of blogposts from activist short sellers, wouldn't be surprised if this is one of them
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

MX793

Quote from: Laconian on April 16, 2018, 03:53:26 PM
seekingalpha features a lot of blogposts from activist short sellers, wouldn't be surprised if this is one of them

They are, so some degree of skepticism is required.  But they make some interesting points.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

MrH

Model 3 line is now down for another 4-5 days...
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

GoCougs

Quote from: Tave on April 16, 2018, 09:49:15 AM
Tesla sold more electric vehicles in March than the Volt, Bolt, Leaf, i3, eGolf, and Ford models all combined. If they continue their current rate of increase in production they'll add the Prius PHEV and rest of the list in about 2 months.

Yup, and the more they sell, the more money they lose; which is a great business plan:


ifcar

Quote from: GoCougs on April 16, 2018, 07:27:51 PM
Yup, and the more they sell, the more money they lose; which is a great business plan:



That's the period in which they were facing the costs of bringing the Model 3 to production without the revenue of selling it, so that's not too surprising. Eventually it will be the reverse.

GoCougs

Quote from: MX793 on April 16, 2018, 02:53:33 PM
Saw this pop up in my news feed today.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4163197-elon-musk-buried-tesla-single-tweet

That Tesla bombed it doesn't mean much; as you state, Musk poo-poo'd the Toyota Production System. THAT is when you knew Tesla was doomed.

If anything this is some sort of mea-culpa with an eye toward some sort of state or federal handout.


Lebowski

Quote from: Laconian on April 16, 2018, 03:53:26 PM

seekingalpha features a lot of blogposts from activist short sellers, wouldn't be surprised if this is one of them


I get the impression pretty much anyone can submit an article and they will publish.

GoCougs

Quote from: ifcar on April 16, 2018, 07:33:40 PM
That's the period in which they were facing the costs of bringing the Model 3 to production without the revenue of selling it, so that's not too surprising. Eventually it will be the reverse.

It's pretty normal to stay in the black when developing and launching new product...

AutobahnSHO

I just laugh at the fact Musk has so much other junk going on, but sleeps at the office to (micro)manage at Tesla.
Will

12,000 RPM

Quote from: GoCougs on April 16, 2018, 07:36:36 PM
That Tesla bombed it doesn't mean much; as you state, Musk poo-poo'd the Toyota Production System. THAT is when you knew Tesla was doomed.

If anything this is some sort of mea-culpa with an eye toward some sort of state or federal handout.
He sure picked the right administration for a socialist bailout :lol:

Elon is truly a master of media and image
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Soup DeVille

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on April 17, 2018, 04:34:14 AM
I just laugh at the fact Musk has so much other junk going on, but sleeps at the office to (micro)manage at Tesla.

I doubt he's doing that with any sort of regularity. Chances are he's taken a nap or two and trying to make this into part of the Musk mythos.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

CaminoRacer

1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV, 2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance

r0tor

I can't believe anyone actually believes anything posted on seekingalpha
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: Soup DeVille on April 17, 2018, 05:45:19 AM
I doubt he's doing that with any sort of regularity. Chances are he's taken a nap or two and trying to make this into part of the Musk mythos.

Look at MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!   I manage all night long!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Screams "I don't do time management well" to me.
Will

CaminoRacer

Nah, there's probably tons of stuff that needs to be done and everyone is running around with their hair on fire. Setting up production can easily be a 24/7 thing.
1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV, 2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance

Galaxy

So now they want to go to a 24/7 production and reach 6.000 cars per week by the end of June.

MrH

This is a train wreck.

Plant capacity is not something you can just turn up with a dial.  The entire production line should be designed around a takt time.  Everything from cell layout and labor planning to material movement and flow is designed around this takt time.

What was the original designed takt time of the line?  Is it something ridiculous, and there are really that many process failures that they're just working through each bottle neck every time?  Or are they redesigning the entire line with every capacity increase?  None of what he's saying makes sense.

Now he's going to switch from 10 shifts a week (2/day, 5 days/week), to 21 shifts a week (3/day, 7 days/week) to try and hit his production target that he was going to be able to do on just 10 shifts?  There are MASSIVE productivity issues going on then.  This is a very, very costly way to try and fix the issue.

The whole email is a mess.  Encouraging mass insubordination?  Approving every expense?  Just a massive pump before some really depressive Q1 numbers roll out.  Then Musk will play it off as "it was just an internal email to try and rile the troops". :facepalm:
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2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

Soup DeVille

#1229
What email?

Nevermind.

Well, he talks about precision and tolerances as if he's just discovered the CNC mill and everyone else is handfitting machines with files and scrapers.

He seems frenetic. In any of my managers, I would say "nervous." Does he always write like that?
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator