Sporty G37 thread

[12,000 RPM]

I don't think tire stagger matters. If the car has too much weight or power for the rear tires, which I'd say is doubly true here, shit happens. The auto makes the connection from my foot to the tires very vague. In any case it was a one time thing, aside from jackrabbit starts I'm a lot calmer in this thing than the Civic.

[Raza]

In my experience, you need to be pushing pretty hard to initiate lift oversteer on dry pavement, even with so-so tires.  Harder than you should ever drive on public roads.

I've done it.   

[MexicoCityM3]

LTO in a RWD car, even a slightly front-heavy one, with staggered width tires is fairly difficult to initiate.  Especially with an automatic, since they don't tend to engine brake as strongly.  You need to be driving really aggressively.  You may need to add a little jab of the brake to upset the chassis enough to get it to really rotate.  Longer wheelbase makes it that much harder.  Something small like a Miata is a little easier to coax some LTO out of.  I actually have an easier time coaxing off-throttle oversteer out of FWD cars than RWD.

Yeah. FWD cars do it easier because of all that weight in the front. That's how I crashed when I was 17 driving my dad's Dodge Shadow Turbo.

Is it out of alignment?

That could be. A few years back I spun on track in my E46 and I hit a curb. Didn't see any obvious damage but the alignment was shot because of a bent arm. I had positive camber on my right rear. Next time I went out the car oversteered on every left turn. Sorta like Sporty says his G is behaving.

[MexicoCityM3]

I've done it.   

Of course. But Sporty seems to be a nice responsible person.

[AutobahnSHO]

Of course. But Sporty seems to be a nice responsible person.

Except for driving Civic hard and driving G37 hard....   

[2o6]

Of course. But Sporty seems to be a nice responsible person.

Idk sporty blew up his Civic by overevving the engine

[FoMoJo]

Idk sporty blew up his Civic by overevving the engine

If he wants to hot-rod, he needs to get some good ol' American muscle.  Those little buzz-buckets just can't take it.

[12,000 RPM]

Like the Z, I rarely take this thing to redline. Knock on wood I think this engine is safe. No need, it takes off from stops like my bike.

[Laconian]

I redlined my G37 all the time. Great noises to be had near redline.

[MexicoCityM3]

Like the Z, I rarely take this thing to redline. Knock on wood I think this engine is safe. No need, it takes off from stops like my bike.

So, no redline, but power-off oversteer. Post a video please.

[12,000 RPM]

I redlined my G37 all the time. Great noises to be had near redline.

I do too from time to time, just nowhere near as much as the Civic since I don't *have* to.

So, no redline, but power-off oversteer. Post a video please.

Corner speed does not require going to redline, just a turn of the steering wheel

[MrH]

You know what....yeah, you should have bought a Camry and coilovers.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

If he wants to hot-rod, he needs to get some good ol' American muscle.  Those little buzz-buckets just can't take it.

[Raza]

You know what....yeah, you should have bought a Camry and coilovers.

[Vinsanity]

Belated congrats. I wonder why you even bothered considering such things as a Chrysler 200. Oh well, enjoy the car!

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Belated congrats. I wonder why you even bothered considering such things as a Chrysler 200. Oh well, enjoy the car!

Nutty as squirrel shit.....   

[GoCougs]

I see my advice was finally heeded.

And lol at r0tor's meltdown. There is no material criticism of the (4th gen) G - it really is that good; including reliability.

I just got new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ (the "+" is critical - completely different tire than the previous version). I've never been much of a tire snob but there is something revolutionary about these.

I had thoughts of replacing the G, but these tires, along with a few other updates (mega detail, painted wheels, plus of course the fact that most all new cars are pretty sucky), and I'll be keeping the G for a while longer. 117k miles and going strong!

[giant_mtb]

Tires really do make a difference. Get the tires for the type of driving that you like to do, and you'll never regret it.

[SVT_Power]

Like the Z, I rarely take this thing to redline. Knock on wood I think this engine is safe. No need, it takes off from stops like my bike.

Your bike might do 0-60 in the high 3's depending on the year of the bike, which should be more than a full second faster than the G...I think you might need to work on launching your bike a little faster

[12,000 RPM]

Your bike might do 0-60 in the high 3's depending on the year of the bike, which should be more than a full second faster than the G...I think you might need to work on launching your bike a little faster

I haven't done any formal testing. My metric of measurement right now is "how easily do I get away from traffic", which both are about equal at. I almost always short shift the bike as well, so it probably is close IRL.

[12,000 RPM]

I see my advice was finally heeded.

And lol at r0tor's meltdown. There is no material criticism of the (4th gen) G - it really is that good; including reliability.

I just got new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ (the "+" is critical - completely different tire than the previous version). I've never been much of a tire snob but there is something revolutionary about these.

I had thoughts of replacing the G, but these tires, along with a few other updates (mega detail, painted wheels, plus of course the fact that most all new cars are pretty sucky), and I'll be keeping the G for a while longer. 117k miles and going strong!

If you didn't need AWD I would really recommend the Genesis. I have no qualms about keeping the G long term though.... Z was the most reliable car I ever had and I sold it with >190K on it.

Tires really do make a difference. Get the tires for the type of driving that you like to do, and you'll never regret it.

Yea agreed. I really love the DWS06s... hoping with 255 width all around (on 19s) and coilovers they will handle how I like. Almost too many choices in coilovers though.... things have opened up in the short ~2 years since I sold the Z

[CALL_911]

If you didn't need AWD I would really recommend the Genesis. I have no qualms about keeping the G long term though.... Z was the most reliable car I ever had and I sold it with >190K on it.
Yea agreed. I really love the DWS06s... hoping with 255 width all around (on 19s) and coilovers they will handle how I like. Almost too many choices in coilovers though.... things have opened up in the short ~2 years since I sold the Z

Didn't you have the Z for a few months?

[12,000 RPM]

Didn't you have the Z for a few months?

No like 2 years. I got it when my wife got a job in August and I sold it around March the 2nd year after. I put 30K on it

[AutobahnSHO]

Anyone want to hear Odyssey red line stories?

[565]

I see my advice was finally heeded.

And lol at r0tor's meltdown. There is no material criticism of the (4th gen) G - it really is that good; including reliability.

I just got new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ (the "+" is critical - completely different tire than the previous version). I've never been much of a tire snob but there is something revolutionary about these.

I had thoughts of replacing the G, but these tires, along with a few other updates (mega detail, painted wheels, plus of course the fact that most all new cars are pretty sucky), and I'll be keeping the G for a while longer. 117k miles and going strong!

If you want even more reason to keep the G37x, then I recommend upgrading the rear sway bars ASAP.  I always remarked that I thought the G37x handles surprisingly poorly.  It did not handle as well as an 8th gen Honda Accord 4 cylinder for example (My folks have one).  Which is surprising given that it got great reviews it got in the car magazines for handling, just a tick down from a 3 series overall.  I couldn't quite pin point why I thought the G37x was a poor handling car until I read online that most G37x owners are equally disappointed.

Basically the problem stems from the fact that the G37x comes with super wimpy rear sway bars as a heavy handed method that Nissan used to ensure terminal oversteer in the AWD models. This did create the desired effect, but it also created serious body control issues.  These issues are noticeable in transitions, as you turn in, there is a slight delay from turning the wheel and any response from the car itself.  They are also extremely noticeable in hard sustained corners, as the rear end starts swaying and bouncing around.  Finally any mid corner bumps will significantly upset the car as the front and rear roll resistances were so different.

Pretty much everyone on the G37 forums swear by swapping them out on the AWD models, either with a full Hotchkis swap front and rear, or just replacing the tiny rear sway bar with one from the standard RWD G37 (which is the same on the G37S and 370z).

Interestingly to further increase understeer, Nissan actually fitted a substantially larger front sway bar on the AWD models.  The Hotchkis full upgrade is an amazing option for the RWD G37s because the primary upgrade there is the smaller front sway bar on those models, and it makes for a much tighter handling car.  For the G37x, posters mostly reported the biggest change in feel in upgrading from the AWD to RWD rear sway bar, and a slight improvement to further upgrade to Hotchkis, but with a slight loss of ride quality.

I was debating for months whether to do this upgrade, because I've pretty much never modded a car that was performance enhancing.  When the MK III Supra developed rod knock many years ago, we rebuilt it with head gasket studs, and tried to put in a metal head gasket (which leaked, and needed to be replaced back to stock), but never further modded it to take advantage of it.  What finally pushed me over the edge was when I ran into a XE Jaguar sedan 2.0 doing some spirited driving and I tagged along.  I could easily destroy him in the straights, but in the long sustained corners, his car stayed composed, while the G37x was rolling all over the place, far from the limit.

I was debating full Hotchkis kit front and rear, or just the RWD G37 rear sway bar, or a rear sway bar from a NISMO Z (which is slightly stiffer than the RWD G37/370z).  The issue is that I drive on broken up Boston roads and composure and compliance over potholes and bumps was extremely important, and I wanted to minimize ride quality compromise.  I couldn't find a good NISMO Z rear sway bar, and that was a rarer swap that people had less experience with.   Ultimately I found a great condition G37 RWD rear sway bar for 70 bucks on EBAY, free shipping.

Anyway last week I swapped it out.  I can post up the steps on how to do it if anyone is interested, but it's the same as the ones on the internet.

I've had a week to drive around with the new RWD sways and can share my thoughts.

First off.  I finally understand why the G37 was so well reviewed and viewed as a legitimate challenger to the 3 series.  It was definitely an "Oh, so that's what they were talking about!" moment.  My car now handles beautifully.  Turn in hesitation is completely gone, and the feel from the wheel is much more weighted.  In hard cornering the car now just sticks and stays completely composed, and mid corner bumps are no longer an issue.  As for ride compliance, the ride is firmer, but not harsher.  Bumps that used to send the rear end bouncing around now produce a single controlled bump. 

Most importantly when I drove the 8th Gen Accord, it was a car that always enticed me to drive it harder because of how well it handled.  The G37x was always a car that discouraged it because of how poorly it handled.  When I had to ask it to perform (like to keep up with that Jag in the twisties), it displayed just how out of it's element it really was.  Now with this swap, the G37x now handles how it was meant to handle, just like its non-neutered RWD siblings.

I will say that with these new rear sway bars, I do believe that you can get the G37 to lift off oversteer like Sporty has.  My tires are complete crap, and in need of replacement (I'm trying to hold out until the PS4s comes in 225/50 18), and in the rain, the car is now surprisingly neutral.  Gradually turn into a corner, and you will get under-steer still.  Throw it into a corner in the wet, and the balance is actually slight over-steer, even with no throttle input whatsoever. Furthermore, this is with the significantly stiffer front sway bar of the G37x.  With the softer front sway bar of the RWD models, i'd imagine they over-steer even more.  This neutral behavior was probably the reason Infiniti choose such a mismatched set of sway bars for the AWD models.

Overall I would say that's the only potential down side to this swap.  With the stock wimpy sway bar, the G37x was always going to under-steer, no matter what road condition and no matter what you did with it.  Wet and snow driving was Infiniti's primary goal with the AWD model.  Now with the swap, it handles like a balanced neutral RWD car, and with slippery conditions, you have to be mindful of what you do.

[12,000 RPM]

There is something weird about FM car suspensions, and I think it has to do with suspension geometry. The Z was pretty tenacious in the dry, so in neutral throttle or lift off conditions I never had problems. In the wet though it was a handful with any kind of pushing.... corner entry, mid corner, and especially exit. I think a big part of it is just that it's under-tired.... E46 M3 made about the same power with less torque and weight, and had sticky 255s out back. What does the X have? 225s out back? Even with a sticky tire that's sketchy. I really want to run a square setup but I think putting some 275s or something around that size would cure all the rear end looseness. I think the widest I can fit up front is a 265 so I will probably do that square to be able to rotate tires.

Handling on the G is good but not great. Maybe I am just used to the Civic but the steering is numb and body motions are pretty squishy.

[565]

There is something weird about FM car suspensions, and I think it has to do with suspension geometry. The Z was pretty tenacious in the dry, so in neutral throttle or lift off conditions I never had problems. In the wet though it was a handful with any kind of pushing.... corner entry, mid corner, and especially exit. I think a big part of it is just that it's under-tired.... E46 M3 made about the same power with less torque and weight, and had sticky 255s out back. What does the X have? 225s out back? Even with a sticky tire that's sketchy. I really want to run a square setup but I think putting some 275s or something around that size would cure all the rear end looseness. I think the widest I can fit up front is a 265 so I will probably do that square to be able to rotate tires.

Handling on the G is good but not great. Maybe I am just used to the Civic but the steering is numb and body motions are pretty squishy.

Are you still on those nasty terrible Nexen tires?  I still think that getting better tires (like PSS) and Hotchkis sways will go a long way to improving that car.

I ended up not going Hotchkis because the g37x already comes with significantly  larger front sways, but go through the g37 forums and usually RWD owners will say that sways are the best of the suspension upgrades for the g37, if not the best overall upgrade available.

[12,000 RPM]

Are you still on those nasty terrible Nexen tires?  I still think that getting better tires (like PSS) and Hotchkis sways will go a long way to improving that car.

I ended up not going Hotchkis because the g37x already comes with significantly  larger front sways, but go through the g37 forums and usually RWD owners will say that sways are the best of the suspension upgrades for the g37, if not the best overall upgrade available.

I just can't deal with the wheel gap. It's a tradition. I have the Nexens.... between this trip and the like I will be on the for a while. They are pretty awful.

I'm still a huge fan of DWS06s... I don't want to keep 2 sets of tires, so I need all seasons, and the DWS06s wow me every time I push them. Combined with coils on the Civic.... it's really something special. I will hold off on the sways.... coils + lowering will deal with those issues, and I really don't want the back any more loose.

[GoCougs]

If you want even more reason to keep the G37x, then I recommend upgrading the rear sway bars ASAP.  I always remarked that I thought the G37x handles surprisingly poorly.  It did not handle as well as an 8th gen Honda Accord 4 cylinder for example (My folks have one).  Which is surprising given that it got great reviews it got in the car magazines for handling, just a tick down from a 3 series overall.  I couldn't quite pin point why I thought the G37x was a poor handling car until I read online that most G37x owners are equally disappointed.

Basically the problem stems from the fact that the G37x comes with super wimpy rear sway bars as a heavy handed method that Nissan used to ensure terminal oversteer in the AWD models. This did create the desired effect, but it also created serious body control issues.  These issues are noticeable in transitions, as you turn in, there is a slight delay from turning the wheel and any response from the car itself.  They are also extremely noticeable in hard sustained corners, as the rear end starts swaying and bouncing around.  Finally any mid corner bumps will significantly upset the car as the front and rear roll resistances were so different.

Pretty much everyone on the G37 forums swear by swapping them out on the AWD models, either with a full Hotchkis swap front and rear, or just replacing the tiny rear sway bar with one from the standard RWD G37 (which is the same on the G37S and 370z).

Interestingly to further increase understeer, Nissan actually fitted a substantially larger front sway bar on the AWD models.  The Hotchkis full upgrade is an amazing option for the RWD G37s because the primary upgrade there is the smaller front sway bar on those models, and it makes for a much tighter handling car.  For the G37x, posters mostly reported the biggest change in feel in upgrading from the AWD to RWD rear sway bar, and a slight improvement to further upgrade to Hotchkis, but with a slight loss of ride quality.

I was debating for months whether to do this upgrade, because I've pretty much never modded a car that was performance enhancing.  When the MK III Supra developed rod knock many years ago, we rebuilt it with head gasket studs, and tried to put in a metal head gasket (which leaked, and needed to be replaced back to stock), but never further modded it to take advantage of it.  What finally pushed me over the edge was when I ran into a XE Jaguar sedan 2.0 doing some spirited driving and I tagged along.  I could easily destroy him in the straights, but in the long sustained corners, his car stayed composed, while the G37x was rolling all over the place, far from the limit.

I was debating full Hotchkis kit front and rear, or just the RWD G37 rear sway bar, or a rear sway bar from a NISMO Z (which is slightly stiffer than the RWD G37/370z).  The issue is that I drive on broken up Boston roads and composure and compliance over potholes and bumps was extremely important, and I wanted to minimize ride quality compromise.  I couldn't find a good NISMO Z rear sway bar, and that was a rarer swap that people had less experience with.   Ultimately I found a great condition G37 RWD rear sway bar for 70 bucks on EBAY, free shipping.

Anyway last week I swapped it out.  I can post up the steps on how to do it if anyone is interested, but it's the same as the ones on the internet.

I've had a week to drive around with the new RWD sways and can share my thoughts.

First off.  I finally understand why the G37 was so well reviewed and viewed as a legitimate challenger to the 3 series.  It was definitely an "Oh, so that's what they were talking about!" moment.  My car now handles beautifully.  Turn in hesitation is completely gone, and the feel from the wheel is much more weighted.  In hard cornering the car now just sticks and stays completely composed, and mid corner bumps are no longer an issue.  As for ride compliance, the ride is firmer, but not harsher.  Bumps that used to send the rear end bouncing around now produce a single controlled bump. 

Most importantly when I drove the 8th Gen Accord, it was a car that always enticed me to drive it harder because of how well it handled.  The G37x was always a car that discouraged it because of how poorly it handled.  When I had to ask it to perform (like to keep up with that Jag in the twisties), it displayed just how out of it's element it really was.  Now with this swap, the G37x now handles how it was meant to handle, just like its non-neutered RWD siblings.

I will say that with these new rear sway bars, I do believe that you can get the G37 to lift off oversteer like Sporty has.  My tires are complete crap, and in need of replacement (I'm trying to hold out until the PS4s comes in 225/50 18), and in the rain, the car is now surprisingly neutral.  Gradually turn into a corner, and you will get under-steer still.  Throw it into a corner in the wet, and the balance is actually slight over-steer, even with no throttle input whatsoever. Furthermore, this is with the significantly stiffer front sway bar of the G37x.  With the softer front sway bar of the RWD models, i'd imagine they over-steer even more.  This neutral behavior was probably the reason Infiniti choose such a mismatched set of sway bars for the AWD models.

Overall I would say that's the only potential down side to this swap.  With the stock wimpy sway bar, the G37x was always going to under-steer, no matter what road condition and no matter what you did with it.  Wet and snow driving was Infiniti's primary goal with the AWD model.  Now with the swap, it handles like a balanced neutral RWD car, and with slippery conditions, you have to be mindful of what you do.

Interesting. I have no complaints about G37x handling. It sticks well, it turns well, and it rolls well (little). Oversteer is there, but that is on purpose of course, courtesy also of ATTESA E-TS.

I came from a 7th gen Accord (IIRC generally accepted to be the better handler than the 8th gen) w/V6 (lower profile rubber, "sport" suspension) and I thought the G37x was most definitely a huge upgrade in handling.

Did you buy your G used? I found the G's struts/shocks blew at about 75,000 miles, and it killed handling (and to a lesser extent, ride quality).

I do ~50% of my driving in the wet and snow (and some gravel roads) so I should probably stick with the factory setup. I'd also be leery as ATTESA-ETS + ESC is fairly complicated and tuned to the factory suspension.

[565]

Interesting. I have no complaints about G37x handling. It sticks well, it turns well, and it rolls well (little). Oversteer is there, but that is on purpose of course, courtesy also of ATTESA E-TS.

I came from a 7th gen Accord (IIRC generally accepted to be the better handler than the 8th gen) w/V6 (lower profile rubber, "sport" suspension) and I thought the G37x was most definitely a huge upgrade in handling.

Did you buy your G used? I found the G's struts/shocks blew at about 75,000 miles, and it killed handling (and to a lesser extent, ride quality).

I do ~50% of my driving in the wet and snow (and some gravel roads) so I should probably stick with the factory setup. I'd also be leery as ATTESA-ETS + ESC is fairly complicated and tuned to the factory suspension.

I did buy the g37xS used, but I got it with less than 50k miles.  The ride was fine and definitely didn't feel like it had blown shocks.   It was owned by an older woman who had loaded the hard disk with old people music, and all the seating memory settings were for midgets, and she drove it in suburban CT where the roads are all nicely paved.  Everything about the car looked barely used.

If 50% of your driving is wet/snow then I guess the stock understeer is a safer bet, but the rear seat bar upgrade really raises the sportiness factor as much as everyone says it does.

Tomorrow I'm going to do some back to back drives in the twisties between the g37 with rear sway bar upgrade and the C5 z06 to see how it stacks up.