What would it take for you to give up car ownership for ride sharing?

[SJ_GTI]

Again, many people who work in New York don't live there because they can't afford it, want to stretch their money further, want a quieter neighborhood, etc...

There's 12 million people in the metro area outside of the burroughs. It has suburbs.

My entire state is basically one giant suburb. South Jersey is a suburb for Philly, North Jersey is a suburb for NYC. There are no large cities in NJ, but its the most densely populated state in the country.

[Raza]

NYers and NYC is the best, period.

Says the guy so desperate to leave it he went to the south.   

[BimmerM3]

It's not the only city but again NY is THE American city. It's hard to argue city life is great while admitting living in NYC would suck.  Many of the other cities discussed Atlanta etc are a lot more like living in a big sprawling suburb.

Just for the record, I'm arguing that there are definite benefits to living in the city, not that all aspects of city living are totally awesome. IIRC, this whole conversation started because someone said that cities have "no benefit."

But it's also not fair to use the most extreme example as the defining case. It'd be like saying additional horsepower is pointless on all cars just because the Dodge Demon is pointlessly powerful.

[Tave]

Just for the record, I'm arguing that there are definite benefits to living in the city, not that all aspects of city living are totally awesome. IIRC, this whole conversation started because someone said that cities have "no benefit."

But it's also not fair to use the most extreme example as the defining case. It'd be like saying additional horsepower is pointless on all cars just because the Dodge Demon is pointlessly powerful.

I think Lebowski is missing the point here.

Sporty said, "Any city where a normal person can afford a car or commute in from the suburbs into the city isn't a city IMO."

Regardless of whether you like city living or not, that statement doesn't make sense for two reasons:

1) Sporty isn't Websters and doesn't get to single-handedly define the word "city" for the entire human race; and,
2) The criteria does not apply to any major US city, New York included. Even the oldest, most European, city-centric US cities have massive commuter populations.

[SJ_GTI]

I think Lebowski is missing the point here.

Sporty said, "Any city where a normal person can afford a car or commute in from the suburbs into the city isn't a city IMO."

Regardless of whether you like city living or not, that statement doesn't make sense for two reasons:

1) Sporty isn't Websters and doesn't get to single-handedly define the word "city" for the entire human race; and,
2) The criteria does not apply to any major US city, New York included. Even the oldest, most European, city-centric US cities have massive commuter populations.

Yeah I think the weird part of 12,000 RPM's post was the "or commute" part. As you say there is a ton of commuting in to NYC for work (and FWIW there are in fact people that live in NYC and commute to NJ for work).

Driving in on a daily basis would be a nightmare though (IMO) and would be relatively expensive.  I tried to google to see what portions of people commute via mass transit versus driving themselves; this is popped up but I am not sure how accurate it is:



Keep in mind that include all commuters in NYC (so people that both live and work in NYC).

[Lebowski]

Wait, why am I missing the point if you disagree with something Sporty said?  Sporty isn't my spokesman.

What I'm saying is I think its disingenuous to say city living is great but then admit yeah living in New York would suck. I also don't agree NY is an "extreme example", it's the quintessential American city, it's not some oddball example I pulled out of left field. 

[Tave]

Wait, why am I missing the point if you disagree with something Sporty said?  Sporty isn't my spokesman.

What I'm saying is I think its disingenuous to say city living is great but then admit yeah living in New York would suck. I also don't agree NY is an "extreme example", it's the quintessential American city, it's not some oddball example I pulled out of left field.

I get that, and I realize the discussion was broader than Sporty's one statement, but here is how that specific portion of the conversation unfolded that you quoted:

Any city where a normal person can afford a car or commute in from the suburbs into the city isn't a city IMO

lol that's completely asinine. You don't get to just arbitrarily redefine words so that your argument makes sense.

Indeed, by that asinine definition perhaps the only "city" in North America is New York. Knowing who this hypothesis is coming from it's not surprising...

It's not the only city but again NY is THE American city. It's hard to argue city life is great while admitting living in NYC would suck.  Many of the other cities discussed Atlanta etc are a lot more like living in a big sprawling suburb.

No one in that exchange was saying anything about whether city life sucked or not, at least in those posts.

[shp4man]

I wish I could move to a more rural/small town setting, but that ain't happenin' right now. The older I get, the less patience I have for other people's stupidity. More people=more stupidity.

[giant_mtb]

I wish I could move to a more rural/small town setting, but that ain't happenin' right now. The older I get, the less patience I have for other people's stupidity. More people=more stupidity.

"If everyone around you seems like an asshole, you're probably the asshole."

[shp4man]

"If everyone around you seems like an asshole, you're probably the asshole."

You'd have to live here for a while. Do people in your town race to steal parking spots? Throw trash in the street in front of your house? Take 15 minutes with a cashier when there's 15 other people in line? Do cars back up for a 1/4 mile at intersections?

[giant_mtb]

lol I didn't tell you where to live, man.

[shp4man]

lol I didn't tell you where to live, man.

See what I mean?

[giant_mtb]

See what I mean?

No, I don't.  It sounds to me like you live in a city where city things happen and you're mad about it.  You can't escape stupid people except in your own mind.  ie, lighten up.

[Tave]

Yeah I think the weird part of 12,000 RPM's post was the "or commute" part. As you say there is a ton of commuting in to NYC for work (and FWIW there are in fact people that live in NYC and commute to NJ for work).

Driving in on a daily basis would be a nightmare though (IMO) and would be relatively expensive.  I tried to google to see what portions of people commute via mass transit versus driving themselves; this is popped up but I am not sure how accurate it is:



Keep in mind that include all commuters in NYC (so people that both live and work in NYC).

I knew that at least a Jersey guy would get it. 

I figure there's probably more car commuting in the eastern borroughs from LI and New England, but who knows. For as daunting as Manhatten feels, I don't think the traffic itself is as big an issue as all the grid-ed stoplights and lack of limited access thoroughfares. 

And part of the explanation is that the NYC metro public transport system is so relatively extensive and such a value proposition, that why bother driving? Just because you're riding the rail doesn't mean you're too poor to afford a car. I mean, surely the gigantic parking lots at the line stops serve some purpose besides being a convenient space to practice donuts....

[shp4man]

No, I don't.  It sounds to me like you live in a city where city things happen and you're mad about it.  You can't escape stupid people except in your own mind.  ie, lighten up.

It sounds to me like you haven't spent a whole lot of time in a big city.

[giant_mtb]

It sounds to me like you haven't spent a whole lot of time in a big city.

Absolutely correct.  Because I don't want to live in one.

lol I didn't tell you where to live, man.

[Raza]

"If everyone around you seems like an asshole, you're probably the asshole."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laFGAp6Ip40

[Raza]

It sounds to me like you haven't spent a whole lot of time in a big city.

Where do you live?  I got the impression you already lived in a smallish town.

[shp4man]

Where do you live?  I got the impression you already lived in a smallish town.

I live in coastal southern California. I grew up in a small town, though.

[Raza]

I live in coastal southern California. I grew up in a small town, though.

So not a big city?

[shp4man]

So not a big city?

I live in a suburb of San Diego, the 2nd largest city in California.

[Raza]

I live in a suburb of San Diego, the 2nd largest city in California.

Ah.

Great baseball stadium there.

[12,000 RPM]

You'd have to live here for a while. Do people in your town race to steal parking spots? Throw trash in the street in front of your house? Take 15 minutes with a cashier when there's 15 other people in line? Do cars back up for a 1/4 mile at intersections?

There's two sides to every story, and I give anyone on the other side of yours the benefit of doubt by default.

[shp4man]

There's two sides to every story, and I give anyone on the other side of yours the benefit of doubt by default.

Damn, Sporty you're getting a little #triggered I see. Is it daddy Trump? Don't worry, everything will be OK.   

[12,000 RPM]

Damn, Sporty you're getting a little #triggered I see. Is it daddy Trump? Don't worry, everything will be OK.   

I'm great man, eating croissants in Barcelona at the moment. Trump can't stop me

[MrH]

Eating croissants in Barcelona.  On his phone.  Arguing with shppy about Trump

[Lebowski]

Sporty order some churros.

[CaminoRacer]

Livin the dream

[shp4man]

Just tell the waitress "Uno mas cervesa, por favor!" 

[Raza]

Just tell the waitress "Uno mas cervesa, por favor!" 

That actually might not work in Barcelona.