Trouble in poserland

[12,000 RPM]

Giulia & XE are in trouble o..... ~900 units/month, compared to 8000/month for the Bimmer 3/4, 6000/month for the C class, 5500 for the A4/5. ATS is also in the doldrums moving about 1200/month

To be fair though the BMW is down.... but the A4/5 and C isn't. Hyundai might as well scrap the G70 now.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2017/06/small-and-midsize-luxury-car-sales-in.html

[SJ_GTI]

Considering its a brand new car from a brand with barely having its toes in the pond 900 units/month doesn't seem to bad. The Stelvio will probably be a much bigger success overall for Alfa though (which I understand is stating the obvious). I am curious to see what (if anything) Alfa brings to the market next. I have to assume their goal is to become a full line brand in the US.

[Payman]

Poser? 

[MX793]

Considering its a brand new car from a brand with barely having its toes in the pond 900 units/month doesn't seem to bad. The Stelvio will probably be a much bigger success overall for Alfa though (which I understand is stating the obvious). I am curious to see what (if anything) Alfa brings to the market next. I have to assume their goal is to become a full line brand in the US.

Yeah, Alfa and to a lesser extent, Jag, don't have the breadth of dealer network in the US that the Germans have.

[BimmerM3]

Yeah, Alfa and to a lesser extent, Jag, don't have the breadth of dealer network in the US that the Germans have.

Nor the brand recognition, especially at the lower end of the market.

[93JC]

Called it!

Does anyone give a damn about Alfa Romeo rumours anymore? Even if they did bring their next mid-sized sedan to North America—and I doubt they will, I doubt they'll ever come back to North America—who would buy it? There's no cachet left in North America, they'd be starting from scratch. They would bring nothing new to the table, nothing to build any sort of brand equity upon. Alfa Romeo would get their asses handed to them by the rest of the established players in North America.

The (little) interest they created when they started cockteasing a North American return has completely evaporated in the fifteen years since we first started hearing rumours they were coming back. They took too long.

Well I didn't quite entirely call it, I was obviously wrong in that we did end up getting the Giulia in North America as promised, but I was otherwise 100% correct when I said "Alfa Romeo [will] get their asses handed to them by the rest of the established players in North America." Who didn't see this coming a mile away?

[2o6]

I told yall these cars were gonna flop, and ya'll said I was crazy

[2o6]

They also have like no lease deals

[12,000 RPM]

This is not exactly a risky prediction.... I made this call on the ATS 4 years ago when people still believed in these kinds of entrants. That was a glorious thrashing

[MexicoCityM3]

One visit to the dealer here was quite enough to scare me away from Alfa.

[93JC]

They also have like no lease deals

Of course not, residuals on Italian luxury cars are laughably poor. Here you can get yourself a BMW 330i xDrive for $457/mo. for 48 months and $5,000 down. A base Alfa Romeo Giulia with the exact same terms has a $612/mo. payment. (not incl. freight, PDI & sales taxes)

[12,000 RPM]

One visit to the dealer here was quite enough to scare me away from Alfa.

Please elaborate

[Cookie Monster]

Please elaborate

Hey realized it wasn't a BMW.

[GoCougs]

This is failed thread.

The measure of success is each automakers' sales goal, which they virtually never release, for individual models.

[MexicoCityM3]

Please elaborate

I think I did a thread about that.

Basically, the two Giulias they had on exhibit were literally out of gas. For both they brought the keys out. The first one didn't start and kept turning over (starter). The second one did start....and then turned itself off after about 10 seconds and didn't start again. Both cars had "Christmas trees" of warning lights active on the dash.

Not to mention that paying that money at a dealer where the Giulia is exhibited next to a 7K base Chrysler feels like shit.

Alfa also positioned the cars here about 10% above equivalently equipped german competitors.

Hey realized it wasn't a BMW.

That too :)

[MexicoCityM3]

FWIW I stopped by yesterday at a Merc dealer near my office because I saw they got the new E-Class coupe on exhibit. Battery was completely and utterly dead. Reminded me of my Alfa experience. But for a Merc dealer I am willing to do a pass because of previous reputation. Alfa has none.

[12,000 RPM]

This is failed thread.

The measure of success is each automakers' sales goal, which they virtually never release, for individual models.

Sergio's never been one to keep his cards close

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a9976630/all-of-alfa-romeos-hope-rests-on-the-stelvio-suv/

Fiat Chrysler boss Sergio Marchionne predicted Giulia sales to be around 75,000 to 100,000 units annually, so this new sedan is way off in its first year of sales. Marchionne aims for Alfa Romeo to sell 170,000 cars this year, and for the brand to become profitable for the first time in two decades next year.

It's a flop by your own definition, and it's not going to get better

[MX793]

FWIW I stopped by yesterday at a Merc dealer near my office because I saw they got the new E-Class coupe on exhibit. Battery was completely and utterly dead. Reminded me of my Alfa experience. But for a Merc dealer I am willing to do a pass because of previous reputation. Alfa has none.

Alfa has a previous reputation.  It's just not a very good one.

[2o6]

This is not exactly a risky prediction.... I made this call on the ATS 4 years ago when people still believed in these kinds of entrants. That was a glorious thrashing

Well the ATS can be leveraged against other models, nor was the rest of the car "all new" - it combined the Zeta and Sigma platforms in a lighter chassis that was an evolution of the Zeta cars.

It's also still moving wayyy more units than the alfa

[Rich]

Sergio's never been one to keep his cards close

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a9976630/all-of-alfa-romeos-hope-rests-on-the-stelvio-suv/

It's a flop by your own definition, and it's not going to get better

We're those projections for the US market or worldwide?  I can't see how they'd project so many sales out of such a small dealer network in the US

[GoCougs]

Sergio's never been one to keep his cards close

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a9976630/all-of-alfa-romeos-hope-rests-on-the-stelvio-suv/

It's a flop by your own definition, and it's not going to get better

Is a prediction a plan?

(Not really.)

[12,000 RPM]

Is a prediction a plan?

(Not really.)

Dont move the goalposts- you asked if FCA stated a goal, not a plan or prediction- and they did. And as with much of what Sergio promises, it looks like Alfa will fall short

[Tave]

You can't even purchase a base Alfa yet, can you? How long have the base models been on lots?

[12,000 RPM]

I think you can. I've seen them on the roads.

[r0tor]

My Jeep dealer us stuffed with Gulia's... Every single one is awd.  Wonder if there are supplier issues

[giant_mtb]

Don't think I've spotted any Alfas at my local FCA dealer.  A few Fiat 500s here and there, but I've heard nothing but horror stories.

[12,000 RPM]

My Jeep dealer us stuffed with Gulia's... Every single one is awd.  Wonder if there are supplier issues

RWD cars dont do well in the NE

[cawimmer430]

They need a slightly bigger Stelvio XL! 

Drew the body in Photoshop and changed the rear and wheelbase...

[Tave]

I think you can. I've seen them on the roads.

I checked and Greensboro has a ton in stock, so yeah I guess they're finally here. I hadn't seen many reviews and initially they only imported the QV, so I'm thinking the inventory can only be a month or two old.

Regardless, when has volume ever been the final arbiter on what makes a good driver's car and what doesn't? Why are you rooting for them to fail and cheering the compact CUV race to the lowest common denominator?

[12,000 RPM]

I'm not rooting for anything; just assessing the strategy from a business POV. Appealing to enthusiasts and making driver's cars is easy.... I'd love if Porsche gave me a 911R for free, but that's not going to make Porsche money Lotus stuck to its purist guns all the way to its exit out of the US market On the other hand, something like the Miata is good business, as Mazda has built up its brand equity in isolation and for the brand at home, and they've continued to build it without sucking up all the resources in the room. Contrast that with Alfa's situation.....

Plus the whole concept is so meh. Oh look, another 3 series fighter. Granted, this one makes good on the promise, but it's hard to get excited the 20th time.

I think the situation is still salvageable from a business POV though. It's obvious Alfa was never going to generate the volume needed to make this platform viable. But all the LX cars/SUVs move reliable volume, and the LX platform is ancient. Moving to this platform and updating the engines (no more iron blocks for N/A) would make good use of that sunken cost, and give FCA a way forward WRT crash and fuel economy regs going forward. A Charger R/T on this platform for ~35K would be a viable driver's car.