UK to ban all petrol and diesel vehicles by 2040

[Morris Minor]

The sale of new diesel and petrol cars and vans will be banned in the UK from 2040.
The government announced the deadline as part of £3 billion plans to cut illegal levels of air pollution that include scrappage schemes and potential "clean air zones" that could see charges for heavy polluting vehicles.
Environment Secretary Michael Gove said the government wanted to help the car industry "do the right thing".

More http://www.itv.com/news/2017-07-25/new-diesel-and-petrol-cars-to-be-banned-in-uk-from-2040/

[Soup DeVille]

The "we're helping them do the right thing" line is one of the more amusing euphemisms for extortion.

[cawimmer430]

I hope that ban also includes airplanes and ships. You know, two of the like the biggest polluters out there...

[Morris Minor]

I hope that ban also includes airplanes and ships. You know, two of the like the biggest polluters out there...

A loaded Airbus A330 burns more gas getting to altitude that I will use in 100 lifetimes.
^unverified fact^

[Laconian]

I hope that ban also includes airplanes and ships. You know, two of the like the biggest polluters out there...

Cargo ships and cruise ships are by far the biggest polluters. The oil they burn is essentially garbage.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/21/the-worlds-largest-cruise-ship-and-its-supersized-pollution-problem

[GoCougs]

I hope that ban also includes airplanes and ships. You know, two of the like the biggest polluters out there...

These such bans have little if anything to do with science, the environment, etc. It's about societal engineering, control, and a bit of self-loathing sprinkled in for good measure.

[shp4man]

These such bans have little if anything to do with science, the environment, etc. It's about societal engineering, control, and a bit of self-loathing sprinkled in for good measure.

And maybe a few campaign contributions from the battery industry. 

[12,000 RPM]

These such bans have little if anything to do with science, the environment, etc. It's about societal engineering, control, and a bit of self-loathing sprinkled in for good measure.

This is a rich complaint from the guy who wants the govt to be his arbiter of "morality"

[cawimmer430]

A loaded Airbus A330 burns more gas getting to altitude that I will use in 100 lifetimes.
^unverified fact^

Cargo ships and cruise ships are by far the biggest polluters. The oil they burn is essentially garbage.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/21/the-worlds-largest-cruise-ship-and-its-supersized-pollution-problem

Yep, and this is what my comment was implying.

Everyone attacks the car industry (and in some cases car owners) but the general industry, aircraft and ships are some of the biggest polluters out there. Seems like they get a free pass...

I'm not opposed to electric cars if they offer range and quick charging. Waiting half an hour for a supercharger to bring the battery back up to 80% is simply unacceptable for those who have time constraints, tight schedules etc.

[giant_mtb]

The war on automobiles is an odd one, that's for sure.  Such a tiny portion of all pollution comes from cars on the road.  Granted, a decent amount of pollution goes into producing and delivering them as well, but still.

[cawimmer430]

The war on automobiles is an odd one, that's for sure.  Such a tiny portion of all pollution comes from cars on the road.  Granted, a decent amount of pollution goes into producing and delivering them as well, but still.

Exactly.

They just voted to ban diesel cars from Stuttgart in 2018. We'll see if this goes through the higher courts. But if this ban is final and the pollution levels do not recede, I just can't wait to see what their excuses will be. Most likely they will enact a ban that will go against gasoline-powered vehicles.

In the meantime, trains, airplanes and ships are spewing their dirt all over the place, but cars are the targets of these god damn idiots. 

[shp4man]

Better start looking at bicycles, Wimmer!     

[cawimmer430]

Better start looking at bicycles, Wimmer!     

Or...

[shp4man]

Or...

A third world Sport Utlity Vehicle!   

[Galaxy]

Exactly.

They just voted to ban diesel cars from Stuttgart in 2018. We'll see if this goes through the higher courts. But if this ban is final and the pollution levels do not recede, I just can't wait to see what their excuses will be. Most likely they will enact a ban that will go against gasoline-powered vehicles.

In the meantime, trains, airplanes and ships are spewing their dirt all over the place, but cars are the targets of these god damn idiots. 

I am not sure what exactly your problem is. The limits on pollution are not a "would be nice to have" list. They are legal limits, based on objective data on what is hazardous to the human body. Now, in several threads you have kept harping on politicians, but the politicians have actually been dragging their feet trying to prevent a push back against diesels. The only reason why diesel bans are on the agenda is because the cities like Munich, and Stuttgart have lost lawsuits. They have been given a certain number of days to get emissions in check or else they will pay something like € 50.000 a day in penalties for non-compliance with a court order. 

Now, you do not need unicorn dust to meet diesel emission limits. The new Mercedes OM 654 in the E 320d actually beats legal limits by a large margin in real life driving according to ADAC tests. The new Audi A8 will have an adblue tank twice as large as the outgoing model. Hmm, I wonder why? The point is, the car companies deliberately choice to ignore the limits, and they, and their customers are now paying a price, so your anger should be directed at the car companies.

[cawimmer430]

I am not sure what exactly your problem is. The limits on pollution are not a "would be nice to have" list. They are legal limits, based on objective data on what is hazardous to the human body. Now, in several threads you have kept harping on politicians, but the politicians have actually been dragging their feet trying to prevent a push back against diesels. The only reason why diesel bans are on the agenda is because the cities like Munich, and Stuttgart have lost lawsuits. They have been given a certain number of days to get emissions in check or else they will pay something like € 50.000 a day in penalties for non-compliance with a court order. 

Now, you do not need unicorn dust to meet diesel emission limits. The new Mercedes OM 654 in the E 320d actually beats legal limits by a large margin in real life driving according to ADAC tests. The new Audi A8 will have an adblue tank twice as large as the outgoing model. Hmm, I wonder why? The point is, the car companies deliberately choice to ignore the limits, and they, and their customers are now paying a price, so your anger should be directed at the car companies.

I should have been more clearer, but my annoyance is directed the The Green Party and Deutsche Umwelthilfe. Yes, the car companies are also at fault and I agree with the idea that they should, at their own cost, update older diesel cars.

In particular Die Grünen gets my anger, because they want everyone to switch over from internal combustion engines to electric cars as soon as possible. Do they not know that not everyone has money in the bank to afford a new car? What about the lack of infrastructure and the low range? Are electric cars really that green? Because their production (and especially the battery production) is incredibly polluting. For the Green Part electricity simply comes out of the socket. But these are issues which they just seem to ignore.

I am not opposed to electric cars, but in order for them to appeal to me they need quicker charging times and more range. When I read about Özdemir and Göring-Eckardt or see them in talk shows I really want to puke. Göring-Eckardt especially is so smug and I find her just incredibly annoying and stuck up.

[Raza]

The war on automobiles is an odd one, that's for sure.  Such a tiny portion of all pollution comes from cars on the road.  Granted, a decent amount of pollution goes into producing and delivering them as well, but still.

It's the easiest one to go for.  Cars are more visible than things like cargo ships or even planes.  A lot of people use a car everyday, so it makes it an easy target. 

[Galaxy]

It's the easiest one to go for. 

Yes. For cars alternatives are slowly, but surely coming online. I don't think anyone envisions an electric aircraft crossing the Atlantic with 400 people. even though small electric aircraft exist as prototypes.

[Raza]

Yes. For cars alternatives are slowly, but surely coming online. I don't think anyone envisions an electric aircraft crossing the Atlantic with 400 people. even though small electric aircraft exist as prototypes.

But imagine the Greek employment rate if they had to start rowing their ships across the ocean!

[shp4man]

Doesn't Germany get most of their electric power from Russian natural gas?

Oh what a tangled web we weave.

[AutobahnSHO]

Doesn't Germany get most of their electric power from Russian natural gas?

Oh what a tangled web we weave.

They are highly nuclear, but I wouldn't be surprised. And they are planning on cutting Nuclear in Europe. Silly.

[FoMoJo]

Doesn't Germany get most of their electric power from Russian natural gas?

Oh what a tangled web we weave.

We know that Germans, especially German engineers, are highly competent and efficient, however, changing the entire power generating structure of a nation doesn't happen overnight .  It's sufficient that they are going in the right direction, imo.

[Galaxy]

Doesn't Germany get most of their electric power from Russian natural gas?

Oh what a tangled web we weave.

Gas for heating comes from Russia.

In terms of electrical power Germany has actually become a net exporter. Though it is region dependent, the southern parts of Germany are importing electricity,

[CaminoRacer]

It's the easiest one to go for.  Cars are more visible than things like cargo ships or even planes.  A lot of people use a car everyday, so it makes it an easy target. 

And consumers aren't able to lobby as well as shipping companies.

[mzziaz]

Gas for heating comes from Russia.

In terms of electrical power Germany has actually become a net exporter. Though it is region dependent, the southern parts of Germany are importing electricity,

30% of the gas comes from Norway, and a fair share from the Netherlands also iirc.

[Galaxy]

30% of the gas comes from Norway, and a fair share from the Netherlands also iirc.

Putin could probably still cause me to freeze my ass off in winter if he is pissed enough. The Netherlands cancelled their contract with Germany a few month ago, but they gave an extremely large time of notice. I believe 2030 is the cutoff date.

[mzziaz]

Putin could probably still cause me to freeze my ass off in winter if he is pissed enough. The Netherlands cancelled their contract with Germany a few month ago, but they gave an extremely large time of notice. I believe 2030 is the cutoff date.

Indeed, but I just read an article that LNG by ships are about to change the whole business, so that might change.

[12,000 RPM]

Ugh, I hope those ships clean up their emissions. Otherwise they may as well burn coal.

[Soup DeVille]

Ugh, I hope those ships clean up their emissions. Otherwise they may as well burn coal.

LNG ships are some of the scariest things on the seas. They basically have to clear out the harbor to let one unload.

[12,000 RPM]

Shit, yea, that too.