Death of Mainstream Sedans?

Started by Morris Minor, March 28, 2018, 11:31:05 AM

Morris Minor

Quote from: Morris Minor on March 30, 2018, 01:27:26 PM
/Morris scampers out to check whether tires on AWD CUV are lame or not.
They're Hankook Kinergy Mud & Snow.
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤
''Simplicity is Complexity Resolved'' - Constantin Brâncuși

Gotta-Qik-C7

Quote from: CALL_911 on March 30, 2018, 12:40:01 PM
Duh, but to the average person who doesn't give a shit about how they drive, their car, or anything pertaining to their car, it's much easier to just blame it on the car and get a "stronger" tool that can "deal with" her abuse.

I'm not saying it's correct, but that's how lots and lots of people think. Veeman's got a point.
:hesaid:
2014 C7 Vert, 2002 Silverado, 2005 Road Glide

r0tor

I have no use for snow tires on the JGC
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

ifcar

My grandmother yesterday was telling me she wants to replace her 2007 Azera so she can get the latest safety features. She's mostly interested in a midsize sedan, but I also suggested the Nissan Rogue because the surround-view camera could be very helpful in her condo's parking garage. Her first reaction was "oh, I don't need an SUV." Protecting the midsize sedan from death.

shp4man


AutobahnSHO

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 30, 2018, 05:13:45 AM
Which is why they can coexist in peace.

If anything, the only sedans and hatchbacks left will be the exciting ones, as those are the ones anyone will want to buy.

Nope they'll be the cheap beater cars.
Will

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: MX793 on March 30, 2018, 01:55:43 PM
Even with tall sidewalls, hammering into sharp edges potholes can damage a tire.  Instead of immediately popping, it will just break radial belts instead, leading to potential blowouts later.

Hmm, maybe that's what happened with Odyssey?...     There were some serious gashes on the inside sidewall and the tire was "hopping" and bigtime steering shimmy..
Will

MX793

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on March 31, 2018, 01:12:21 PM
Hmm, maybe that's what happened with Odyssey?...     There were some serious gashes on the inside sidewall and the tire was "hopping" and bigtime steering shimmy..

Entirely possible.  Did the sidewall damage look like splits/cracks or gouges?
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

12,000 RPM

Quote from: shp4man on March 31, 2018, 01:05:42 PM
Fucking Korean shit.... :fogey:
Yeah he's so better on some Firestones  :pee:
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

veeman

Using fueleconomy.gov the difference in annual fuel cost between a current CRV and base automatic Civic is $300 assuming 15,000 miles driven per year.  Between a CRV and base automatic Accord is $200. 

12,000 RPM

The CR-V vs Accord is the more relevant comparison due to price. But yes the gap is just about closed.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

2o6

GM may end up killing both the Sonic and the Impala. Same with Ford axing the Fiesta and Taurus.




Not surprised, but it seems like with these newfangled modular platforms, making cheap cars and variants should be at an all time low. Although a basic Escape/CR-V et al are remarkably thrifty for what they are, cost of entry is still high, IMO. I'd rather get a decently equipped Sonic for $16K, rather than be pushed into an Equinox for 23K. That's a lot of money.



Sad.

2o6

My BIGGEST problem - at least sedans and hatchbacks have a sembalance of affordability? I don't know anyone my age who can actually afford a decently equipped CUV.

MrH

2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

2o6


MrH

Quote from: 2o6 on April 04, 2018, 01:31:24 PM

That made my heart hurt

It should.  I'm as shocked as you are.  I feel I make pretty good money, and I took out a 5 year loan on an SUV <$40k and I pay a huge amount every month.  No way could I afford it fresh out of school.

Has to be loan length.  Average is 67 months now, with 1/4 of all new loans between 73 and 84 months.  84 months!!!  Can you imagine still paying off a 2012 model year car today?  That's crazy.
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

12,000 RPM

Quote from: 2o6 on April 04, 2018, 12:26:06 PM
My BIGGEST problem - at least sedans and hatchbacks have a sembalance of affordability? I don't know anyone my age who can actually afford a decently equipped CUV.
There will still be the Cruze and Malibu, which should be dirt cheap with how they are moving. Especially now with the subprime market getting pushed out
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

2o6

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 04, 2018, 02:28:22 PM
There will still be the Cruze and Malibu, which should be dirt cheap with how they are moving. Especially now with the subprime market getting pushed out


I don't want one of those



Also, Ford will likely only have the Focus.

12,000 RPM

Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

MX793

Quote from: MrH on April 04, 2018, 01:43:30 PM
It should.  I'm as shocked as you are.  I feel I make pretty good money, and I took out a 5 year loan on an SUV <$40k and I pay a huge amount every month.  No way could I afford it fresh out of school.

Has to be loan length.  Average is 67 months now, with 1/4 of all new loans between 73 and 84 months.  84 months!!!  Can you imagine still paying off a 2012 model year car today?  That's crazy.

Nobody's still paying off a 5+ year old car. 













They've since traded up to a newer vehicle, rolling their old loan principle into the new one.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Xer0

Quote from: MX793 on April 04, 2018, 04:57:21 PM
Nobody's still paying off a 5+ year old car. 


My friend did this, except that he rolled over his old loan payment into a new leased vehicle.  He didn't divulge specifics, but I can only imagine that its hideously ugly and he'll be screwed mightily when that lease is up.










They've since traded up to a newer vehicle, rolling their old loan principle into the new one.

MrH

Quote from: MX793 on April 04, 2018, 04:57:21 PM
Nobody's still paying off a 5+ year old car. 













They've since traded up to a newer vehicle, rolling their old loan principle into the new one.

True. Which is even worse.  I'm waiting for this bubble to pop and 2-3 year old car values drop big time.
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

12,000 RPM

Used car prices have changed fundamentally since the recession. Plus new car sales are set to decline, which I'm pretty sure will put even more upward pressure on 2-3 used car prices. Only thing I see changing that are big upward interest rate moves or a recession.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Lebowski

Yeah I'm not so sure it's a bubble. Viewing car ownership as entailing a perpetual monthly payment has been the norm more or less our entire lives (for most of us here), I don't see that changing.

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on March 31, 2018, 01:12:21 PM
Hmm, maybe that's what happened with Odyssey?...     There were some serious gashes on the inside sidewall and the tire was "hopping" and bigtime steering shimmy..
Quote from: MX793 on March 31, 2018, 01:50:41 PM
Entirely possible.  Did the sidewall damage look like splits/cracks or gouges?

Yup. And the tires were not that old nor abused. The guy said they looked dry-rotted. Smaller cracks with big chunks missing.
Will

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: MrH on April 05, 2018, 06:37:16 AM
True. Which is even worse.  I'm waiting for this bubble to pop and 2-3 year old car values drop big time.


Maybe someday. Better never though. I used to pay $2k for an ok car with 90k miles in the last 90s. Then it was $3k was an ok entry car.

Nowadays it's been much more expensive to get a used car.
Will

Morris Minor

The steadily disappearing American car

       
  • Sedans started disappearing from the U.S. car market in 2008.
  • Fueling the trend are low gas prices, a stronger economy and dramatic improvements in the design of SUVs and trucks.
After a century of ferrying millions of daily commuters and taking countless family road trips, simple passenger cars are disappearing from American life, and they may not come back.

Detroit's Big Three automakers — Chrysler, Ford and General Motors — pioneered the mass production of the car, but in just four years, all three may be known to Americans simply as truck and SUV makers, with only a stray sedan for sale.

The automotive industry in America is making what many observers think is an irrevocable shift toward pickup trucks, sport utility vehicles and crossovers. While carmakers are producing sedans and sports cars that are safer, faster and more comfortable than ever, customers continue to flock to taller vehicles with features cars simply cannot offer.

More... https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/06/the-steadily-disappearing-american-car.html
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤
''Simplicity is Complexity Resolved'' - Constantin Brâncuși

12,000 RPM

Damn.... Daewoo troubles prompting rumors GM will kill the Spark too

I feel like when gas spikes used small cars are gonna go for a fortune as there won't be any new ones to buy....
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

AutobahnSHO

Lol saw a commercial for the "rebirth of a legend"- the new Eclipse cross.

It's a CUV. :confused:
Will

Laconian

The Eclipse did something very bad in a past life, and was reborn in a baser form in order to atone for its sins.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT