Ford shitcanning all its cars but the Mustang.

[Lebowski]

Honestly....why is the Mustang still around?

I imagine this was a branding decision ("Ford can't kill the mustang!"), not that the mustang is somehow more profitable than the rest of their car lineup.  I imagine the Ford family (which still exerts considerable influence) in particular would be loathe to let the mustang go.

[Raza]

Well, Ford kills the car. And yet, people call me an alarmist for saying the car is dead. This is the least happy I've been about being proved right. Cars are dead.

[Rich]

If you all would just stop buying CRVs already!! 

[Rich]

Guess what, Canadians!


Ya'll won't even be getting the Focus Active.

That's pretty crazy. Will they get some similar car?

[2o6]

That's pretty crazy. Will they get some similar car?

No.

Canada will only have the Mustang.

[565]

and the $120k dinosaur got it's ass kicked by a German flat 6 at the 'ring... Boo hoo

Fake news.

https://www.torquenews.com/106/2019-corvette-zr1-runs-712-nurburgring-spectators

None of those are official numbers, just what some car spotters claim they saw around turn 13 while they were testing and made it into the news somehow.  What the final times will be will likely be very different.  Considering independent sources (Sport Auto) can get the C7 Z06 around the ring in 7:13, which has much less downforce and power, everyone expects the official time to be very different.


Also according to the Bridge to Gantry site which is where this story comes from, Porsche has been testing there all month with industry exclusive test times:

https://www.bridgetogantry.com/porsche-991-2-gt3rs-laps-ring-under-7mins-corvette-zr1-disappoints-with-way-over-7mins/

"First to the table was Porsche Motorsport with the bright green Weissach-package'd GT3RS 991.2 that has been terrorising the industry test sessions all month."

Whereas the ZR1 did only 1-2 runs.
"After Porsche had their exclusive tracktime, Chevrolet took over the whole Nordschleife for a run or two"

Chevy probably had no intention of setting a record time with only 1-2 runs.

[Tave]

I don't think he meant literally, not one car will be sold.

I realize that, it fails as hyperbole too. Out of the top-10 selling models in the US last year, 4 were mainstream sedans while only 3 were SUVs or CUVs (with the remainder being the Ram/F/Silverado trio).

Do you think they just haven't tried?  Do you think GM and Chrysler just haven't tried?  The D3 seem consistently unable to be profitable in passenger cars. Even the players that are profitable, exceptionally well run companies like Toyota with structural advantages compared to the D3, have low margins in cars and in some cases lose money in small cars.

Raison d'etre according to who, you?  Why not cut to the chase and say you'd have their raison d'etre be to consistently lose money?

According to Henry Ford for starters. We're talking about the company that literally invented the concept of an automobile for the masses.

Exiting a market is not the same thing as competing in that market unsuccessfully, so no, we haven't seen this before at least not for F.  Plus the SUV/CUV market is a lot different today than then.

If Ford can't compete with the Accord and Camry, it won't be able to compete with the RAV4 and CRV either. This is the first step along the road of turning Ford into RAM. Take your logic to its ultimate conclusion and they may as well only sell the F-Series and Mustang. 

[MrH]

Thing is though - as families grow and change, a lot of people like staying within brands.


Will Focus owners, who likely will now have shit residuals

Why would people have a lot of brand loyalty if the residuals are shit?

[giant_mtb]

The Tundra isn't as good as the GM, Ford, or even the Chrysler.

Uhhh.

GM is my go-to for full size truck, but I'd way rather have a Tundra over a RAM.  Or even a Ford. What is this opinion based on?  Have you driven all of them?  Tundras are incredibly nice trucks.

[Submariner]

Here is the truck market, in a nutshell:



Toyota went after minds in a market that thinks with (truck) nuts

From outlawdecalz.net

[Lebowski]

According to Henry Ford for starters. We're talking about the company that literally invented the concept of an automobile for the masses.

  SUVs, CUVs, and pickups aren't automobiles now?  Hell, the model T more closely resembles an SUV/CUV than modern sedans to me.

If Ford can't compete with the Accord and Camry, it won't be able to compete with the RAV4 and CRV either. This is the first step along the road of turning Ford into RAM. Take your logic to its ultimate conclusion and they may as well only sell the F-Series and Mustang. 

Ford makes money in segments other than passengers cars.  They lose money in passenger cars. How many loss making products does Ford need to keep producing in order to keep you satisfied?  My position is simply don't be in business lines you can't be profitable in, feel free to take that to its logical conclusion to your hearts content.   

Escape might not beat the CRV in comparison tests but they seem to be able to make money in that segment. This isn't new and isn't unique to Ford - SUVs, CUVs, and trucks are higher margin than cars across the board, including for manufacturers that can turn a (slim in most cases) profit in cars.

[2o6]

Mid sized cars not turning a profit sounds like a Ford problem.


I could see the fiesta and maybe the focus having thin margins. But the Fusion? How?

[r0tor]

Honestly....why is the Mustang still around?


It's a bespoke platform, and Ford incentives the hell out of it to get it to move.



The Fiesta, Focus, and Fusion all have chassis and parts commonalities with their more profitable CUV bretheren. There's no Mustang CUV. The high-dollar Mustangs are probably more profitable, but I suspect a 2.3L or 3.7L Mustang is also pretty low.



Yet and still: Ford offers a lot of incentives in Europe, too. Although in the EU, the Focus and the Fiesta are in the top 10 best sellers, 2017's sales numbers were only ~500K. The EU Mondeo only sold 68K last year.


We've been selling as many car shaped things (and bigger cars like the Fusion) roughly as Europe (not counting the umpteen MPV's Ford has). Yet, Ford axed our product line. But Ford doesn't have Lincoln, or trucks like the F150 that sell in droves in the European market.

I've said it before, in the NA market Ford thinks they have the loyalty of their buyers to follow them into more expensive CUVs if they want them or not.  It's the same lazy attitude that had the big 3 consistently producing lackluster cars.

[r0tor]

Fake news.

https://www.torquenews.com/106/2019-corvette-zr1-runs-712-nurburgring-spectators

None of those are official numbers, just what some car spotters claim they saw around turn 13 while they were testing and made it into the news somehow.  What the final times will be will likely be very different.  Considering independent sources (Sport Auto) can get the C7 Z06 around the ring in 7:13, which has much less downforce and power, everyone expects the official time to be very different.


Also according to the Bridge to Gantry site which is where this story comes from, Porsche has been testing there all month with industry exclusive test times:

https://www.bridgetogantry.com/porsche-991-2-gt3rs-laps-ring-under-7mins-corvette-zr1-disappoints-with-way-over-7mins/

"First to the table was Porsche Motorsport with the bright green Weissach-package'd GT3RS 991.2 that has been terrorising the industry test sessions all month."

Whereas the ZR1 did only 1-2 runs.
"After Porsche had their exclusive tracktime, Chevrolet took over the whole Nordschleife for a run or two"

Chevy probably had no intention of setting a record time with only 1-2 runs.

Actually not fake news.  The ZR1 aero package has too much drag which killed it's time.  GM actually gave Porsche track time.  Porsche put down a sub 7 minute run in it's first lap.  Chevy went out after that and failed - miserably

[2o6]

I've said it before, in the NA market Ford thinks they have the loyalty of their buyers to follow them into more expensive CUVs if they want them or not.  It's the same lazy attitude that had the big 3 consistently producing lackluster cars.

I think it's weird that this time around, GM has a line of decent small cars. The Sonic will sadly die, but the Spark, Cruze, and Malibu are actually competitive vehicles.

[r0tor]

  SUVs, CUVs, and pickups aren't automobiles now?  Hell, the model T more closely resembles an SUV/CUV than modern sedans to me.

Cars took over when roads actually became roads...

[giant_mtb]

Cars took over when roads actually became roads...

Must be nice to live where roads actually resemble roads.

[Rich]

Which are quickly turning into not roads

[Lebowski]

Cars took over when roads actually became roads...

What does that have to do with some imaginary Henry Ford quote about a raison d'etre?

[565]

Actually not fake news.  The ZR1 aero package has too much drag which killed it's time.  GM actually gave Porsche track time.  Porsche put down a sub 7 minute run in it's first lap.  Chevy went out after that and failed - miserably

Where is your source?

[12,000 RPM]

From outlawdecalz.net

I have it bookmarked.

I was digging around to see what Ford prices were looking like. Encountered this, not surprising.



Here's what was though:





It's all bad. Ford's whole lineup is in trouble. What is the point of MSRPs?

[Laconian]

Gives executives and product planners the comfy comfy illusion of competitiveness.

[Payman]

I have it bookmarked.

I was digging around to see what Ford prices were looking like. Encountered this, not surprising.



Here's what was though:





It's all bad. Ford's whole lineup is in trouble. What is the point of MSRPs?

Everyone has ads like this. Many of them have "MSRPs" that actually include the delivery, dealer prep, admin charges, etc. Then they list a price without those add-ons to make it look like they're having some kind of big sale.

[2o6]

Nah, I was at the Ford dealer last week. They're offering incentives on basically every car they sell. Those prices are likely accurate.

[12,000 RPM]

Yea its multiple dealers across the city. I don't think it's a rope and dope.

I have felt like there were too many brands/offerings in the market for a while now, but I never thought a company like Ford would be pushed out. Mazda, Mitsubishi, maybe even Nissan. But Ford? They have the midwest on lock. I hope this isn't a macroeconomic canary in the coal mine.

[giant_mtb]

MSRP hasn't been a thing with cars for a while, like virtually any mass produced product, it seems.

[r0tor]

Where is your source?

The real source is the time... You either have it or not

But anyway... https://carbuzz.com/news/chevrolet-helped-the-porsche-911-gt3-rs-set-amazing-nurburgring-time

[2o6]

MSRP hasn't been a thing with cars for a while, like virtually any mass produced product, it seems.

Honda and Toyota often transact at MSRP (or close to it)

[MX793]

Vehicles are one of those things that almost never sell for MSRP, save for brands with no-haggle policies (not sure there are any left, that was a hallmark of Scion and Saturn, both defunct).  Even then, if the brand is offering some kind of rebate or whatever, you'll pay less than MSRP.  Special brands or models excluded.

[AutobahnSHO]

Vehicles are one of those things that almost never sell for MSRP, save for brands with no-haggle policies (not sure there are any left, that was a hallmark of Scion and Saturn, both defunct).  Even then, if the brand is offering some kind of rebate or whatever, you'll pay less than MSRP.  Special brands or models excluded.

Those brands and the JC Penney debacle a few years ago mean people want to feel like they "got a deal!" by paying less than the marked price, even if they know the marked price is too high.