Ford shitcanning all its cars but the Mustang.

[12,000 RPM]

It's one thing to sell like 5-10% under MSRP. We are talking 20-25% across the board with Ford.

[CaminoRacer]

Those brands and the JC Penney debacle a few years ago mean people want to feel like they "got a deal!" by paying less than the marked price, even if they know the marked price is too high.

Same with college tuition + scholarships.

[Lebowski]

The D3 going back as far as I can remember have always had a different pricing strategy than most of the imports esp the better run ones like Honda and Toyota.  The domestics generally have a wider gap between msrp and transaction prices and more reliance on discounts. The Honda/Toyota strategy makes more sense to me but they are also better managed companies with better brand management and not beholden to the UAW and the cost and capacity disadvantages that go along with that.  The D3 also have historically had too many dealers, which further complicates pricing.

[Soup DeVille]

Good year? For who, lol. Were you even alive?

For Chevies dude.

[Soup DeVille]

Vehicles are one of those things that almost never sell for MSRP, save for brands with no-haggle policies (not sure there are any left, that was a hallmark of Scion and Saturn, both defunct).  Even then, if the brand is offering some kind of rebate or whatever, you'll pay less than MSRP.  Special brands or models excluded.

I think Tesla.

And of course with premium brands like Ferrari, the negotiation is over how much above MSRP you'll pay.

[MX793]

So with Ford killing the Fiesta and replacing the Focus with the CUV-ized (and upmarked) Focus Active, the cheapest MSRP for an entry level Ford will be the EcoSport, which starts at 20K.  Meanwhile, the Japanese and Koreans have subcompact segment vehicles in the mid-teens and even their compact segment vehicles starting south of 20k.  Recognize that Ford's don't sell at MSRP, but maybe they should consider just dropping their MSRP and cutting back on the special offers.

[12,000 RPM]

For Chevies dude.

I think they are better now

[12,000 RPM]

So with Ford killing the Fiesta and replacing the Focus with the CUV-ized (and upmarked) Focus Active, the cheapest MSRP for an entry level Ford will be the EcoSport, which starts at 20K.  Meanwhile, the Japanese and Koreans have subcompact segment vehicles in the mid-teens and even their compact segment vehicles starting south of 20k.  Recognize that Ford's don't sell at MSRP, but maybe they should consider just dropping their MSRP and cutting back on the special offers.

I do think lower MSRPs and less incentives would make for better marketing, resale and overall image. The JCPenney strategy is expensive in the long run.

[AutobahnSHO]

I do think lower MSRPs and less incentives would make for better marketing, resale and overall image. The JCPenney strategy is expensive in the long run.

But selling your brand on image/quality/ longevity/ value in the long run is better than "CHEAP!"
The D3 could slowly transition towards a more Asian sales strategy, but doubt they will.

I grew up in Fords and more Fords but my Parents have a Pilot, Civic, and Ranger in the driveway. The last one is because dad got it cheap about 3 years back, and won't be able to replace it with another when it dies. I have a Honda & Subaru, after having spent a lot on repairing my Fords and Grand Caravan..

[AutobahnSHO]

Same with college tuition + scholarships.

good point. Nothing like moving the shells around.

[2o6]

So with Ford killing the Fiesta and replacing the Focus with the CUV-ized (and upmarked) Focus Active, the cheapest MSRP for an entry level Ford will be the EcoSport, which starts at 20K.  Meanwhile, the Japanese and Koreans have subcompact segment vehicles in the mid-teens and even their compact segment vehicles starting south of 20k.  Recognize that Ford's don't sell at MSRP, but maybe they should consider just dropping their MSRP and cutting back on the special offers.

Not to mention, Canada won't get the Focus Active.


Looks like Ford Canada won't have a car that breaks 30MPG freeway.

[MrH]

I do think lower MSRPs and less incentives would make for better marketing, resale and overall image. The JCPenney strategy is expensive in the long run.

The delta from MSRP is a function of their poor forecasting for the most part.  Domestics put high MSRPs there in hopes that the model's popularity takes off and they can sell close to MSRP.  More often than not, they need to put massive incentives out there to move enough to help cover the fixed costs.  The better you are with forecasting, the better you can price your MSRP.

Also, consumers are dumb.  They love thinking they got a good deal upfront.  More often than not, an Accord at MSRP will end up costing less per mile than most equivalent domestics.

[shp4man]

Some kids in my high school in the '70s were driving '30s era Chevys. They were slow and wallowed around corners, but were still reliable after 30 years of use. Plus, they featured an advanced  overhead valve 6 cylinder engine. Pushing them over 80MPH, however, was not recommended, as the ancient babbit bearing stovebolt engines could come apart at high RPM. 

This "death of sedans" thing is just a fad. Mark my words.

[12,000 RPM]

Nobody keeps a car for 30 years anymore, unless it's something like a Ferrari F40. Building cars to that standard is wasteful and pointless.

FWIW our 6 year Ford has been holding up OK over the last year. Admittedly Ford really shit on itself with fuel economy, My Ford Touch 2 and those awful DCTs in the Fiesta/Focus.... but if you can live with some gas guzzling and avoid all that other shit they seem as well built as anything Asian. Ford is just facing a shitload of headwinds, even with competitive cars. It's a brutal market

[2o6]

I feel like ford powertrain combos are notorious for not getting close to the sticker MPG. GM is hit or miss, and the Asian brands are usually right on (namely Honda and Toyota) but Ford always loses. Even the hybrids suck.

[MX793]

Had a lot of Fords in my family and they've all met or exceeded EPA mpg.  At least with traditional (non-hybrid) powertrains.

[r0tor]

Yea, our Focus gets much better than epa

[r0tor]

Can you imagine if the next Trump backlash election if the new regime would be focused on environmental issues and increase gas taxes and cafe standards - Ford is toast

[12,000 RPM]

Can you imagine if the next Trump backlash election if the new regime would be focused on environmental issues and increase gas taxes and cafe standards - Ford is toast

A punitive gas take hike would go over like a lead Zeppelin, and truck/crossover sales were undeterred by the ~4 year stretch of ~$3.65/gallon gas after the recession. Ford would be worse off to continue dedicating expensive American manufacturing capacity and capital to building and selling low margin cars at 20-25% off MSRP.

[12,000 RPM]

MKX gets 19MPG on the nose. City or highway, doesn't matter. Not bad for what it is

[2o6]

Do the Ecoboost motor do ok? Everyone who I knows that has one is routinely disappointed in how mediocre the actual fuel economy is.

[r0tor]

A punitive gas take hike would go over like a lead Zeppelin, and truck/crossover sales were undeterred by the ~4 year stretch of ~$3.65/gallon gas after the recession. Ford would be worse off to continue dedicating expensive American manufacturing capacity and capital to building and selling low margin cars at 20-25% off MSRP.

During the recession F150 sales tanked almost 50%

[MX793]

Do the Ecoboost motor do ok? Everyone who I knows that has one is routinely disappointed in how mediocre the actual fuel economy is.

I believe my brother's F150 meets EPA mileage with the EB3.5.  I've only ever heard him praise the fuel economy.

[12,000 RPM]

During the recession F150 sales tanked almost 50%

During the recession the whole auto industry tanked 50%

[AutobahnSHO]

MKX gets 19MPG on the nose. City or highway, doesn't matter. Not bad for what it is

HUH?

My minivan gets 16/25. The poor city is my fault, I could definitely get it up to 19.

[r0tor]

During the recession the whole auto industry tanked 50%

Focus sales spiked 10-20%

[12,000 RPM]

Focus sales spiked 10-20%

In 08 when gas shot up to $4 pre-recession, yea. Then when the recession hit in 09 they dropped 20% like the rest of the industry. Keep in mind this was the end of that generation so god knows what the discounts were like.

Mk3 debuted in 2012 providing another spike.... and sales shrank every year since, despite gas in the ~$3.50 range for the first 3 years of it being on the market. Compare that to the Escape, which saw sales increase from the Mk3's debut in the US all the way up to last year- again right up through that same ~$3.50 gas stretch

Again just to put a ribbon on it- Recession = Focus sales down 20% (like everyone else). $3.50 gas = brand new Focus sales tanked, Escape sales soared. So what conditions do you see the Focus rebounding?

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/ford-focus-sales-figures/
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/ford-escape-sales-figures/

[r0tor]

Truck sales tanked when gas priced surged.  Small car sales surged.  Truck sales took 5 years to recover after people got jobs and $3+ gas was considered the new norm.

No reason to think this doesn't happen again.. andnsoon

[12,000 RPM]

Truck sales did not tank during the second sustained surge. They.....picked up. [/Ray Caruso]

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/chevrolet-silverado-sales-figures/
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/ford-f-series-sales-figures/
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/dodge-ram-sales-figures/

OTHER small car sales surged, but the Focus sales fell. So again I ask. With history as our guide showing that Focus sales fell during ideal conditions for small car sales, what makes you think it will be different this time?

[Raza]

Nobody keeps a car for 30 years anymore, unless it's something like a Ferrari F40. Building cars to that standard is wasteful and pointless.

FWIW our 6 year Ford has been holding up OK over the last year. Admittedly Ford really shit on itself with fuel economy, My Ford Touch 2 and those awful DCTs in the Fiesta/Focus.... but if you can live with some gas guzzling and avoid all that other shit they seem as well built as anything Asian. Ford is just facing a shitload of headwinds, even with competitive cars. It's a brutal market

How is it wasteful and pointless? People don't keep cars for 30 years anymore because we've decided that cars are disposable commodities that need to be replaced as often as our phones. If cars were still built for longevity, they'd still be owned for long periods of time. But selling someone a car that lasts dozens of years isn't profitable.