The Official C8 Corvette Thread...

[MX793]

Thing is, the manual transmission has gotten only slightly better where as automatics, no matter their flavor, have gotten infinitely better.

That simply goes to show that the manual transmission, like the mousetrap or wheel, was pretty much perfect while automatics were warmed over garbage with tons of room to improve.

[CaminoRacer]

I wasn't excited about the C8 until it came out and I saw it all. I think it's killer. Much more exciting than just about any other new car out there

[cawimmer430]

2020 C8 Corvette Isn't Getting A Manual Because It Wasn't Worth The Effort

If you belong to those few still hoping for GM to roll out a manual transmission option for the new C8 Corvette, then we have some bad news for you.

Speaking with Corvette lead engineer Tadge Juechter, Motor Authority asked him whether a manual option is coming back. The answer was a rather straight-forward "No."

Juechter added that a manual C8 Corvette would simply not sell good enough to justify a supplier's effort to develop and the costs involved.

"We couldn't find anybody honestly who'd be willing to do it. Because just like the automatic, the DCT, it would have to be a bespoke manual," Juechter said. "It's low volume, very expensive. The reason is it's a low-volume industry. That industry is dying—building manual transmissions."

Fewer and fewer customers opt for the manual in the Corvette, dropping the take-rate to around 15 percent, according to Juechter. "Every year it goes down, down, down, down," he said.

Porsche did try to drop the manual option from its hardcore GT models too, but was met with criticism from customers. They listened and eventually offered the 911 GT3 with a manual transmission again. Since then, two out of three buyers go for the three-pedal version according to Porsche North America CEO Claus Zellmer.

Juechter says that this wouldn't hold for the Corvette. "It's 15 percent on cars like the Z06, which historically have been only a manual. And as soon as we offer the automatic, everybody buys the automatic," Juechter said.

The 2020 C8 Corvette will feature a new eight-speed dual-clutch automatic gearbox. GM worked with Tremec to develop it specifically for the new 'Vette. "We don't just find a DCT, an 8-speed DCT that plugs into this architecture with the right dimensions," he added.

The challenge was to create a transaxle-style transmission that could work with the 6.2-liter LT2 V8. Having a dry sump enabled engineers to mount the V8 lower but that created a whole range of other issues for the gearbox during development.

"That puts huge burden on the transmission, too, because it can't have a deep sump either, so all the oil management, everything is super slammed. The belting, the transmission, figuring out how to cool it, there's a ton of complexity around that. That's one of the equations we had to solve," Juechter said.

While the new DCT-equipped C8 is expected to be better in every measurable way, the death of the manual Corvette still makes us feel a bit sad.



Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2019/07/2020-c8-corvette-isnt-getting-a-manual-because-it-wasnt-worth-the-effort/

[12,000 RPM]

I think the C7 had a take rate of ~40% manuals on its debut, so yea a drop down to 15% over one generation is not good. Bear in mind I think the first C7 autos had the old 6AT... that new 8AT changed the equation

NBD to me... I would like to own one more manual car and I'd like my daughter's first car to be manual... but I'm not stressing or buying a "Save The Manuals" t-shirt

[Payman]

Completely understandable. I'm not even mad it won't offer a manual. The powertrain they've developed sounds perfect for the car, and as long as I can still get my manual fix with a 2nd (third? Lol) used vehicle, like my Miata, I'm fine with it.

[12,000 RPM]

It will be interesting to see if and how the manual lives on

I feel like the manual market has hit an equilibrium. There are X people who still want manuals in the US, and probably 2X desirable manual cars (given that many are still depreciating). Cars damn near last forever these days if you take care of them (shown by how many ~15+ year old cars have hit a price floor). So to a degree I'm not worried

[12,000 RPM]

Ah, heres some fun news... C8 comes with standard all-seasons (for the first time?)

Supposedly they will hit 1.00g, vs 1.03-1.05g of the summer tire option... a staggering 2% drop in max corner speed at most

A damn Altima hit 0.93g on all seasons not too long ago.

Summer tires grow increasingly pointless (IMO)

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28414993/2020-chevrolet-corvette-mid-engine-all-season-tires/

[r0tor]

I with the 8 speed autos would allow you to preselected a multiple gear skip when hitting the paddle... That's really my biggest bitch with trying to use them in manual mode.

In a manual I can skip gears.  In automatic mode an 8 speed will skip gears.  In manual mode your left clicking through 3 or 4 gears until you find a passing gear.  Some I guess have a long hold feature to downshift to the lowest gear possible - but sometimes that's not what you want either

[mzziaz]

I would have preferred a manual, but when the overall package is so good, I guess I can live with a DCT.

[12,000 RPM]

I with the 8 speed autos would allow you to preselected a multiple gear skip when hitting the paddle... That's really my biggest bitch with trying to use them in manual mode.

In a manual I can skip gears.  In automatic mode an 8 speed will skip gears.  In manual mode your left clicking through 3 or 4 gears until you find a passing gear.  Some I guess have a long hold feature to downshift to the lowest gear possible - but sometimes that's not what you want either

Dont know if this is it for all autos, but I've heard that in some if you hold the paddle down it will jump to the safest lowest gear

Give it a try... I will try it at lunch

[r0tor]

Dont know if this is it for all autos, but I've heard that in some if you hold the paddle down it will jump to the safest lowest gear

Give it a try... I will try it at lunch

Sometimes that sucks though too as it plops you in a gear and it's already near redline.

The alfa just sequentially flips down gears if I hold it.  The autoshit shifter in the Jeep will go to the lowest gear possible when held.  I have issues with each.

[12,000 RPM]

I think this is all much ado about nothing honestly

For me the real driver of control is adequate power... if a car traps 100+ in the quarter, it's pretty much fast enough and most of the time the transmission doesn't even matter. The only time a transmission really killed an otherwise fast enough car for me was the Genesis 3.8. That thing was every bit as fast as my G37 but the throttle + transmission calibration was super lazy

Every now and then if I'm taking the back roads home I might dive into a corner and wish I had downshifted... but that's hardly a deal breaker. We are just commuting + tooling around

[Raza]

I understand why this car can and doesn't have a manual transmission, but am I crazy for feeling like cars now aren't interesting to me anymore?

I know obviously there is so much more to driving than changing gear, but at this point I kind of don't care anymore.

I've been feeling that for a few years now, and people call me crazy.  Nowadays when I look how little is left being made that I would want to own, it's usually compact to midsize luxury SUVs that have even the smallest amount of appeal.  In the realm of what I'm basically able to afford, something like an F-Pace is probably the most interesting to me.

[SJ_GTI]

I mean, I would rather have a manual over any automatic (DSG/DCT or torque converter) all else being, but things are rarely all else equal and in this case I agree the overall package is compelling enough (compared to anything else in this price range) that I would still give it a serious look (if I was buying something in this price range).

The closest direct competitors are probably the Z4 (with the bigger engine) and the Porsche 718 (or whatever it is called now). The Porsche is the only one with a manual...but the Corvette offering a V8 would likely push me toward it, particularly because the 718 is using turbo I4's now.

[r0tor]

I'm probably massively in the minority, but my money would just go to a M2... Manual, massively fun, and fast enough

[SJ_GTI]

I'm probably massively in the minority, but my money would just go to a M2... Manual, massively fun, and fast enough

Forgot about that one...it would be an interesting competitor. But mid-engine/V8 is a hard combo to overcome at the price point.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Forgot about that one...it would be an interesting competitor. But mid-engine/V8 is a hard combo to overcome at the price point.

Exactly! The M2 wouldn't get a second glance.....

[Payman]

This seems utterly pointless. And what's the significance of "42069"?

https://jalopnik.com/you-can-customize-your-c8-corvettes-vin-for-5-000-1836659212

[Payman]

The M2 is exactly the car I'd still have some difficulty choosing the Vette over. Since I'm middle aged, bald and have a beer gut, I'm obligated to choose the Vette.

[Soup DeVille]

This seems utterly pointless. And what's the significance of "42069"?

https://jalopnik.com/you-can-customize-your-c8-corvettes-vin-for-5-000-1836659212

420- the stoner number

69- you know this, horndog.

[MrH]

Ah, heres some fun news... C8 comes with standard all-seasons (for the first time?)

Supposedly they will hit 1.00g, vs 1.03-1.05g of the summer tire option... a staggering 2% drop in max corner speed at most

A damn Altima hit 0.93g on all seasons not too long ago.

Summer tires grow increasingly pointless (IMO)

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28414993/2020-chevrolet-corvette-mid-engine-all-season-tires/

How did you come up with this?

[r0tor]

Forgot about that one...it would be an interesting competitor. But mid-engine/V8 is a hard combo to overcome at the price point.

The mid engine thing is interesting... Front engine cars are normally more forgiving as they have better balance.  Mid engine benefits include sharper steering and engine noises closer to your head and better traction for launching.  With how far the limits have increased in cars, I'm really wondering how much of a benefit mid engine is anymore at anything less than super crazy speeds.

I still think of rather just have the M2 and beat on it and not have to worry about knocking the front spoiler off in normal driving

[Payman]

420- the stoner number

69- you know this, horndog.

Well yeah, that's actually the only thing I could come up with. It's just 420 and 69 together? I thought it might be something actually related to the Vette.

[12,000 RPM]

How did you come up with this?

cornering g's = v^2/r

sqrt(g's*r) = v

r = constant for a given corner

v(summer tires)/v(all seasons) = sqrt(g's(summer tires)/g's(all seasons))
vs/va = sqrt(1.05/1)
vs/va = 1.024 --------------------------> 2.4% higher corner speeds.

So like 61MPH instead of 60MPH around an offramp... at the expense of year round usability. Not really logical for a street car in a place with legit winters. But also off the mark of a real track tire like a Pilot Sport Cup 2... so not really logical for a dedicated track car either (though they do last a little longer). No man's land IMO

[GoCougs]

I with the 8 speed autos would allow you to preselected a multiple gear skip when hitting the paddle... That's really my biggest bitch with trying to use them in manual mode.

In a manual I can skip gears.  In automatic mode an 8 speed will skip gears.  In manual mode your left clicking through 3 or 4 gears until you find a passing gear.  Some I guess have a long hold feature to downshift to the lowest gear possible - but sometimes that's not what you want either

When performance driving you (generally) don't skip gears

[r0tor]

When performance driving you (generally) don't skip gears

In the actual real world (like a street car drives in) you do...

[r0tor]

Ah, heres some fun news... C8 comes with standard all-seasons (for the first time?)

Supposedly they will hit 1.00g, vs 1.03-1.05g of the summer tire option... a staggering 2% drop in max corner speed at most

A damn Altima hit 0.93g on all seasons not too long ago.

Summer tires grow increasingly pointless (IMO)

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28414993/2020-chevrolet-corvette-mid-engine-all-season-tires/

You have to put an asterisk beside this as they are described as 3 season tires.  All seasons aren't great in the snow, but I'd wager these would be fairly useless. It's more of just a summer compound capable of driving in colder temperatures.

[SJ_GTI]

In the actual real world (like a street car drives in) you do...

I feel like this part gets overlooked a lot.

There is no question that a DCT/DSG (or a really good TC auto) are faster (given all else being equal) than a manual transmission, but I think most buyers that want a manual are driving for fun. On the street folks like me just enjoy it more, and on the track some people want the extra challenge more than the extra performance.

[MrH]

cornering g's = v^2/r

sqrt(g's*r) = v

r = constant for a given corner

v(summer tires)/v(all seasons) = sqrt(g's(summer tires)/g's(all seasons))
vs/va = sqrt(1.05/1)
vs/va = 1.024 --------------------------> 2.4% higher corner speeds.

So like 61MPH instead of 60MPH around an offramp... at the expense of year round usability. Not really logical for a street car in a place with legit winters. But also off the mark of a real track tire like a Pilot Sport Cup 2... so not really logical for a dedicated track car either (though they do last a little longer). No man's land IMO

It's more than just pure outright grip though IMO.  Feel, transition, sidewall stiffness, etc.  I haven't driven this new Michelin all season developed for the vette obviously, but there is a pretty massive gap in the standard michelin all season and pilot sport 4 S.

[12,000 RPM]

The mid engine thing is interesting... Front engine cars are normally more forgiving as they have better balance.  Mid engine benefits include sharper steering and engine noises closer to your head and better traction for launching.  With how far the limits have increased in cars, I'm really wondering how much of a benefit mid engine is anymore at anything less than super crazy speeds.

I still think of rather just have the M2 and beat on it and not have to worry about knocking the front spoiler off in normal driving

My buddy has a bone stock 228i with the M-Sport kit and they killed their front lip.

I agree though... GM achieved their goal but I question the goal. GM says they hit the limit of FR and had to move to MR. What % of Corvette buyers hit that limit? Most would probably Yoo Hoo™ their cargo shorts approaching the limits of a 20 year old C5. Whole thing has an emperor's new clothes vibe.