Keyless Cars and Their Carbon Monoxide Toll

Started by Laconian, May 14, 2018, 12:07:53 AM

Laconian

It's a shame that so many people are dying, but uh - if people can't be trusted to understand this, should they be driving in the first place...? The act of driving a car by itself means piloting a two ton death machine that requires judgment and awareness, with fatal consequences to others.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/13/business/deadly-convenience-keyless-cars-and-their-carbon-monoxide-toll.html

"Deadly Convenience: Keyless Cars and Their Carbon Monoxide Toll
Weaned from using a key, drivers have left cars running in garages, spewing exhaust into homes. Despite years of deaths, regulatory action has lagged."
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

12,000 RPM

It's a shame that other people like kids and stuff get killed like this, but these are Darwin's laws playing out as prescribed.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Soup DeVille

So now what?

CO detectors on the outside of the car? Mandatory idle shut down timers? You know the answer won't be "stop doing that!"
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

Payman

Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 14, 2018, 05:42:51 AM
So now what?

CO detectors on the outside of the car? Mandatory idle shut down timers? You know the answer won't be "stop doing that!"


If only there was something you can physically switch off, like... I don't know... a key?

AutobahnSHO

My solution is make people sit through real training, and spend time on all the nonsense items like "don't run people over. Don't get out of the driver seat if it's not in park. Turn the car off when you're not actually driving it."

And LOTS of hands-on training from qualified instructors.
Will

Soup DeVille

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on May 14, 2018, 05:56:12 AM
My solution is make people sit through real training, and spend time on all the nonsense items like "don't run people over. Don't get out of the driver seat if it's not in park. Turn the car off when you're not actually driving it."

And LOTS of hands-on training from qualified instructors.

A sensible solution that is not going to happen.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

12,000 RPM

Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 14, 2018, 05:42:51 AM
So now what?

CO detectors on the outside of the car? Mandatory idle shut down timers? You know the answer won't be "stop doing that!"
Well, to be fair, a lot of people die from CO poisoning when it's snowy out and they let their cars idle with the exhaust blocked. I agree that this is ridiculous, but a CO sensor is cheap.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

MX793

And people wonder why everything is loaded with interlock switches and nannies.  Lawn tractors have pressure switches under their seats to shut them off if no one is sitting in the seat.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Morris Minor

It's really not a big problem, minuscule number of fatalities. But it's the New York Times  - running stories about heartless corporations murdering people is the thing. Far more people have died, or are confined to bariatric-sized wheelchairs, from following government guidelines on diet.

"The exact number of deaths related to carbon monoxide from keyless-ignition vehicles left running is unknown, as no federal agency keeps comprehensive records. Through 2016, the most recent year for which data is available, the safety agency had investigated only four fatal incidents. From news reports, lawsuits, police and fire records and incidents tracked by advocacy groups, The Times has identified 28 deaths and 45 injuries since 2006, but the figures could be higher."
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤
''Simplicity is Complexity Resolved'' - Constantin Brâncuși

MX793

Curious how frequently this happened with traditional keyed ignition switches.  My guess is that someone absent-minded enough to forget to shut their car off in their garage, and not notice DRLs still being on and the sound of the running engine, would likely do the same with a keyed ignition.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Payman

Quote from: MX793 on May 14, 2018, 06:24:47 AM
And people wonder why everything is loaded with interlock switches and nannies.  Lawn tractors have pressure switches under their seats to shut them off if no one is sitting in the seat.

Lol shit, last summer I couldn't figure out why my Troy-Bilt ride-on wouldn't start. It has the interlock switch under the seat, and I pulled it apart, chased other wires and checked connections, checked the battery, did some swearing, etc.  After awhile I discovered another interlock switch on the plastic extraction shroud. Some grass had gotten between that and the machine, so I cleaned it out and tightened it back up to make switch contact. Success.  :banghead:

12,000 RPM

Quote from: Morris Minor on May 14, 2018, 06:45:13 AM
It's really not a big problem, minuscule number of fatalities. But it's the New York Times  - running stories about heartless corporations murdering people is the thing. Far more people have died, or are confined to bariatric-sized wheelchairs, from following government guidelines on diet.
I don't think anyone has become morbidly obese on 2,000 calories a day.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Soup DeVille

Quote from: MX793 on May 14, 2018, 06:55:44 AM
Curious how frequently this happened with traditional keyed ignition switches.  My guess is that someone absent-minded enough to forget to shut their car off in their garage, and not notice DRLs still being on and the sound of the running engine, would likely do the same with a keyed ignition.

Many recent cars in the US no longer have DRLs. Others have a delay-off feature, and seeing the lights on wouldn't necessarily be a red flag of any kind.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

Speed_Racer

Not trying to be heartless, but they attribute 28 deaths to keyless ignition CO poisoning since 2006. That's a hair over two deaths per year...this shouldn't be a priority for new/additional safety regulations

MX793

Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 14, 2018, 09:14:36 AM
Many recent cars in the US no longer have DRLs. Others have a delay-off feature, and seeing the lights on wouldn't necessarily be a red flag of any kind.

Fair point on the delayed lighting.  Every car I've ever driven, keyed or keyless, sounds a chime if you open the driver's door when the car is running or ignition is on (or key is in the ignition).
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

12,000 RPM

Quote from: MX793 on May 14, 2018, 06:55:44 AM
Curious how frequently this happened with traditional keyed ignition switches.  My guess is that someone absent-minded enough to forget to shut their car off in their garage, and not notice DRLs still being on and the sound of the running engine, would likely do the same with a keyed ignition.
I wonder how many of these deaths involved hybrid cars. Could be that the car was indeed off when they parked, then turned back on once the battery was drained.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Soup DeVille

Quote from: MX793 on May 14, 2018, 09:29:16 AM
Fair point on the delayed lighting.  Every car I've ever driven, keyed or keyless, sounds a chime if you open the driver's door when the car is running or ignition is on (or key is in the ignition).

Just tested it on my wife's Durango. Yes, it beeps annoyingly when the key is out of range. But, the key isn't out of range until I'm 8 or 9 feet from the door, and if the door is closed at that point, its quiet enough that it would be easy to miss.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

MX793

Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 14, 2018, 10:22:36 AM
Just tested it on my wife's Durango. Yes, it beeps annoyingly when the key is out of range. But, the key isn't out of range until I'm 8 or 9 feet from the door, and if the door is closed at that point, its quiet enough that it would be easy to miss.

Some cars honk the horn.  My Mustang does when you're more than like 4 feet away.  I'm talking about the door ajar chime (typically the same chime you get when you leave the lights on after shutting off the car and open the door.  Every car I've ever been in, if the car is running and you open the door, it provides an audible alert (ring/ping/Bing chime) the instant the door opens.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

veeman

A carbon monoxide detector activated automated shutoff in cars left in park with the engine on would be a good thing.  It would save a few lives a year.  I have no idea how much this would add to the cost of a car.  Probably a lot less than a back up camera, stability control, antilock brakes, airbags, seat belts, bumpers, etc. 

Lebowski

Cars with keyless / push start have sensors to detect if the fob is in the vehicle. How about, if no fob is detected AND the car has remained idle for a specified period of time (10 minutes?), kill the engine.

Xer0

This sounds like a nothingburger for busybodies.

CALL_911

Christ, talk about sensationalist journalism


2004 S2000
2016 340xi

Payman

Probably the same number of people have died over the years trying to copulate with their vehicles.

Morris Minor

Quote from: CALL_911 on May 14, 2018, 11:43:00 AM
Christ, talk about sensationalist journalism
It comes from living in an advanced society where people have nothing to worry about.
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤
''Simplicity is Complexity Resolved'' - Constantin Brâncuși

12,000 RPM

Quote from: Lebowski on May 14, 2018, 11:00:48 AM
Cars with keyless / push start have sensors to detect if the fob is in the vehicle. How about, if no fob is detected AND the car has remained idle for a specified period of time (10 minutes?), kill the engine.

3 lines of code. I like it
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Onslaught

Quote from: MX793 on May 14, 2018, 06:24:47 AM
And people wonder why everything is loaded with interlock switches and nannies.  Lawn tractors have pressure switches under their seats to shut them off if no one is sitting in the seat.
I had to bypass that crap.
bah weep granah weep nini bon

Soup DeVille

On the other hand, I had to make a belt guard for my '67 Simplicity to keep my pants from being sucked up in the generator belt, which is exposed and outside the engine cover.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

shp4man

My old truck is prehistoric. A manual choke, a four on the floor that rarely needs 1st, no accessory position on the ignition, no clutch safety switch, single speed wipers, no ding ding when the lights get left on or its running low on fuel. No seat belts...
The typical millennial would pass out in shock.  :muffin:

Gotta-Qik-C7

This is just stupid. These idiots can't remember to turn off their cars (Or remove their infants from the back seat) but I'll bet my right hand they'll remember to grab their Cell Phone! What has this world come to.......
2014 C7 Vert, 2002 Silverado, 2005 Road Glide

CaminoRacer

Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on May 14, 2018, 04:50:27 PM
This is just stupid. These idiots can't remember to turn off their cars (Or remove their infants from the back seat) but I'll bet my right hand they'll remember to grab their Cell Phone! What has this world come to.......

:lol:
1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV, 2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance