EVs

[r0tor]

The virtual power plant idea is cool, but I'd prefer to do it with LiFePO4 vs. regular lithium ion. Lithium ion cycles are too precious.

Lithium ion is indeed a pretty poor choice for non mobile energy storage.  It's upside (packaging) is irrelevant and downsides obvious.

[Morris Minor]

Lithium ion is indeed a pretty poor choice for non mobile energy storage.  It's upside (packaging) is irrelevant and downsides obvious.

But parts commonality. Make extra $$$ using the same cells as you do over in the automotive division.

[r0tor]

"Cheaper is Better" is exactly why we are in a climate mess

[GoCougs]

But we don't do that, we buy much more than our utilitarian need: cars, homes, whatever. It's a self-expression thing, indulging interests, seeking prestige, looking for physical comfort, whatever. Car companies have been addressing this since the beginning. Base trim Corollas would meet 95% of our utilitarian requirements, but they're parked round the back of dealer lots.

Correct - "we (esp. CEOs, celebrities and politicians) don't do that" is 100% proof positive of the farce of man-made global warming. Don't even have to get into "believe the science."

[Laconian]

It's a classic tragedy of the commons scenario. Everybody is a digging a big collective grave simply by following their own rational self interests.

[Morris Minor]

I'm in favor of the above. 

I'm against ridiculous edicts which have no chance of successful implementation because due diligence in making sure the electric grid can handle the expected increased load was not done.  It doesn't make any sense to me to require near 100% EV adoption in a densely populated urban area (of which California has many) when it is so obvious the electric grid cannot handle the expected increased load from such a requirement.  It is also so obvious that people who don't own their own houses with attached or nearby secured garages (not open air carports) will not be able to charge their EVs because there are not going to be nearly enough public charging stations available to supply the massive densely packed population which falls into that category. 

When edicts like this which have no chance of success are made, it causes a well deserved reputation that the people in charge are grossly incompetent and it will cause future climate change friendly initiatives to just have a higher hill to climb because of public mistrust. 

Maybe an analogy would be our history with recycling.  Heavily promoted, required, etc.  Turns out most of it, "recycling", was literally garbage.  It was a policy promoted by the plastic industry which absolved them from guilt of destroying the planet when they knew most plastic cannot be recycled cost effectively.  So we shipped the garbage supposedly recycleable  plastic waste to China and then they wised up and it got shipped to more unfortunate 3rd world Asian countries.  And all it did was heavily pollute their own environment.  So I stood there for years washing out my plastic Skippy peanut butter jar before diligently putting it in the recycling bin when I knew in my mind this is just going into a landfill anyways.  And then I stopped doing it because I knew these edicts were stupid, wasteful, and not accomplishing anything but instead more harmful to the environment.  There are few things worth recycling.  Aluminum cans, plastic drink bottles, glass bottles, and metal. Even most paper just goes into landfills. 

This is what happens when the people in charge do not do their due diligence in actually figuring out what will work and what won't with the resources at hand. 

It's reckless.

People will be shocked at how much money incumbents lose in the (forced) move to automated EVs.
Legacy auto operates on slim margins. Lose a little volume, and margins will go quickly tits-up. Layoffs and factory shutdowns have started & will continue.
They have being told to fund the move from declining ICE sales volumes, & meet the costs associated with shutdowns & bring new facilities online. They will need to borrow more, & money is getting more expensive.

[GoCougs]

It's a classic tragedy of the commons scenario. Everybody is a digging a big collective grave simply by following their own rational self interests.

WtP would not be able to follow such self-interests if but for virtually limitless, irrationally cheap debt; which is not incuriously the same mechanism the prop-GW elites use to fund and use with abject recklessness BY FAR the world's biggest user of fossil fuels and polluters in general: the US military.

[AutobahnSHO]

Maybe it's just easier if WtP bought right-sized homes and right-sized ICE-powered vehicles, and eased way up on flying and trinket buying...

This is SUPER evident driving around my town- all the 1970s houses are 1300-1800 sqft ranches. All the new ones? Double the stories, double the size.

And driving to work- a huge majority of the cars in the parking lot are SUVs/ pickups.

[AutobahnSHO]

People will be shocked at how much money incumbents lose in the (forced) move to automated EVs.
Legacy auto operates on slim margins. Lose a little volume, and margins will go quickly tits-up. Layoffs and factory shutdowns have started & will continue.
They have being told to fund the move from declining ICE sales volumes, & meet the costs associated with shutdowns & bring new facilities online. They will need to borrow more, & money is getting more expensive.

Yessir.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ford-confirms-layoffs-says-it-is-cutting-about-3-000-jobs-primarily-in-u-s-and-canada-11661180161

[AutobahnSHO]

WtP would not be able to follow such self-interests if but for virtually limitless, irrationally cheap debt; which is not incuriously the same mechanism the prop-GW elites use to fund and use with abject recklessness BY FAR the world's biggest user of fossil fuels and polluters in general: the US military.

You don't even wanna know. All our trucks are "EPA emissions rules exempt". Inefficient, heavy, etc...

[GoCougs]

You don't even wanna know. All our trucks are "EPA emissions rules exempt". Inefficient, heavy, etc...

There's many levels to it - manufacturing of the ammo/tanks/planes/subs/ships/etc., the pollution in/around military installations and then of course the warfare itself.

[afty]

Took a road trip down to LA and back for Labor Day weekend in the Tesla. I've now done this a number of times but a few stray observations:

There are two "mountain passes" on this route, and the Tesla feels really good on them. It feels effortless going up — no engine to roar and always plenty of power in reserve. And going down it's immensely satisfying to recapture all that potential energy and watch the battery gauge count up.

I was a bit worried about possible waits at Superchargers since it's a holiday weekend, but Tesla has really built out capacity on this route. Both directions I stopped at Kettleman City where they now have 2 40+ bay Superchargers. Plenty of capacity and fast 250 kW charging. Charging was almost too quick for me to get the kids out of the car, to the bathroom, refill our water bottles, eat a snack, etc.

Once again I stayed at a hotel with free L2 charging. This is a nice perk that lets you skip one charging stop. I fully expect hotels to start charging for this as EVs become more popular, but for now I'll keep taking advantage of it. One of the ways it's nice being an early adopter.

Spent a grand total of $50 to drive 700 miles. Not bad.

[Morris Minor]

I was listening to a talk yesterday on transportation psychology, researchers discussing how transportation decisions are driven by quantitative bias; if there's an SI unit for it, that's what is studied. Shaving five minutes off a journey is given more weight than whether there are bathrooms, or whether railway station interchanges are beautiful, or whether charge stations actually work & are easy to use. In the arguments about upfront costs, performance, charging and range, we also ignore the important quality that EVs are much more pleasant to drive than ICE vehicles.

They also pointed out that, in the European context, range anxiety is largely an American import. Relevant here with our super-low population density and vast size. But not in Europe.

[CaminoRacer]

I do love EVs for hilly or mountainous areas. Tons of torque and no transmission hunting for gears. Just steady speed all the way up.

I want to drive up Pikes Peak sometime, and I think our Bolt might be the best car to do it. The others will lose a lot of power at the top.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I do love EVs for hilly or mountainous areas. Tons of torque and no transmission hunting for gears. Just steady speed all the way up.

I want to drive up Pikes Peak sometime, and I think our Bolt might be the best car to do it. The others will lose a lot of power at the top.

If you regenerate on the way down, it's like a free trip.

[Soup DeVille]

I do love EVs for hilly or mountainous areas. Tons of torque and no transmission hunting for gears. Just steady speed all the way up.

I want to drive up Pikes Peak sometime, and I think our Bolt might be the best car to do it. The others will lose a lot of power at the top.

I did it back when it was still dirt; in an aircooled VW. Power wasn't a problem- traffic was.

[AutobahnSHO]

There's many levels to it - manufacturing of the ammo/tanks/planes/subs/ships/etc., the pollution in/around military installations and then of course the warfare itself.

Correct x thousands

[AutobahnSHO]

...
They also pointed out that, in the European context, range anxiety is largely an American import. Relevant here with our super-low population density and vast size. But not in Europe.

It amuses me very much to read the size of countries on the cia factbook.

Germany = three times the size of Pennsylvania; slightly smaller than Montana
https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/germany/#geography

Italy = almost twice the size of Georgia; slightly larger than Arizona
https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/italy/#geography

UK= twice the size of Pennsylvania; slightly smaller than Oregon
https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/united-kingdom/#geography

Europe is SOOOOO much smaller than the US, especially the western US. On the east coast, a four hour drive could be 2-6 states. On the west, it's halfway across a state.

AND Europe is much more populated. Germany has 80million in the size of Montana. The US has what, 350 million now??...

[Morris Minor]

England and Scotland, combined population about 61M, are about the same land area as Georgia, 11M.

[SJ_GTI]

England and Scotland, combined population about 61M, are about the same land area as Georgia, 11M.

Everything is relative. I live in the one of the most rural parts of NJ. But since NJ is the most densely populated states, when I visit places like Indiana, Ohio, or Virginia I feel like I am coming from a big city. 

FWIW, I looked it up and the population density in NJ is about double the population density of the the UK, but is about on par with just England (Whales and Scotland are far less densely populated, which brings down their average).

[Morris Minor]

Alec Watson does a superb job here. Normal people seeing all this media stuff about EVs would do well to sit down for an hour and watch this.

https://youtu.be/Iyp_X3mwE1w

[afty]

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-09-13/california-electric-grid-batteries-heat-wave-september-2022

"During a critical peak the evening of Sept. 5, when the grid was quickly approaching capacity, California's batteries provided more power — over 3,360 megawatts — than the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant, the state's largest electric generator, which tops out at 2,250. From 5:45 to 8:45 p.m. on that Monday, when the threats of mandatory blackouts were at their greatest, the state's batteries pumped 2,000 megawatts or more continuously into the grid — a full three hours of grid-saving power. Batteries provided about 4% of supply during the peak demand, which averted rolling blackouts."

[Morris Minor]

My brother-in-law & his wife have bought a Nissan Leaf. It meets 90% of their daily needs, driving around in the Chicago suburbs, & they absolutely love it. Their other car is a Murano. They're aware of its limitations in cold weather etc & the passive battery cooling - but they still love it - would never go back to ICE.

[CaminoRacer]

I needed a couple of kWh to get home Friday without driving like a granny. (The car had driven to downtown 3 times that day, not a normal day at all). I stopped at Electrify America for less than 5 minutes and they didn't even charge me. Must have been a promotion or something. I got home with 20 miles of range left. That was definitely very similar to stopping at a gas station. Although usually you don't put in a couple of gallons of gas and then fill the tank to full once you get home

[Morris Minor]

Why do we have MPGe?  I woulda thunk in American terms miles/watt-hour would be a more useful comparative measure.  Not sure buyers are cross-shopping EVs & gassers.
https://ev-database.org has some good info - you can slice what's shown a few different ways.

[CaminoRacer]

MPGe is useful for the first time you ever look at EVs, but otherwise you're correct that it's not worth much.

Wh/mile is the most useful, which is what Tesla uses. Mi/Wh is useful but not as good for doing math comparisons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLQmwOX6Xds

[heelntoe]

I needed a couple of kWh to get home Friday without driving like a granny. (The car had driven to downtown 3 times that day, not a normal day at all). I stopped at Electrify America for less than 5 minutes and they didn't even charge me. Must have been a promotion or something. I got home with 20 miles of range left. That was definitely very similar to stopping at a gas station. Although usually you don't put in a couple of gallons of gas and then fill the tank to full once you get home

I made my first long-ish trip to DC in the bolt last weekend. I ended up charging for a bit at an EA charger and didn't pay anything. I thought it was because it was my first charge with them.

Also, I wish the Bolt showed battery percentage. Is there a way to get it to display that? I use the app to see the percentages now.

[CaminoRacer]

Also, I wish the Bolt showed battery percentage. Is there a way to get it to display that? I use the app to see the percentages now.

I don't think so, not while driving. I use the Enhanced layout on the instrument panel but it still only shows the bar on the left not a number percentage.

At least it gives the percent while DC fast charging.

[Morris Minor]

MPGe is useful for the first time you ever look at EVs, but otherwise you're correct that it's not worth much.

Wh/mile is the most useful, which is what Tesla uses. Mi/Wh is useful but not as good for doing math comparisons.

Wh/mi or mi/Wh makes much more sense - especially given the low energy density of battery storage... it would be helpful to measure efficiency in units that aren't stupid. But they're all in on it.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1257-september-26-2022-seventeen-ev-models-achieved-epa-combined-rating

[AutobahnSHO]

https://techxplore.com/news/2022-09-cars-home-night.html

Study says cars need to be charged in the daytime instead of night time. Especially in California, which has a high amount of solar electricity now compared to when electric rates were written.