EVs

[FoMoJo]

I've been to Palm Springs twice.  What would have been a beautiful scenic drive from LA was destroyed by these massive windmill farms.  I got out of the car and pulled over the side of the road.  I couldn't help but mutter in front of my kids, wtf. 

Thank god there were none of those monstrosities on my way from Las Vegas to Zion/Bryce National Parks and from Southwest Utah on the way to the Grand Canyon.  Just epic natural beauty on all sides stretching out for miles and miles.  Or in Idaho/Montana/Wyoming surrounding Yellowstone National Park.

I'm presuming that you want all that epic natural beauty to remain so .

My sense is that we are trying to implement the least hazardous methods of generating the energy that 'we cannot now live without' in order to preserve the environment that we so greatly cherish; until we have the expertise to do it better.  Certainly fossil fuels have been proven to be the most hazardous to our climate; for anyone who has bothered to take a serious look at it.

[Eye of the Tiger]

No you wouldn't. Because you envision your house/shed/carport whatever surrounded by beautiful LAND and it's natural terrain.  Not with a big fugly industrial windmill or windmills on it.  I know.  You know. We all know.

LAND is about self sufficiency and getting away from the toxic manswarm.

[veeman]

I think windmill locations should be priority placed around politician homes/ golf clubs/ hotels, followed by celebrity homes, followed by homes in neighborhoods where the median income is > 1 million dollars,  followed by resorts which cater to the wealthy, Once all of the available land around those spots are fully utilized with maximum windmill concentration, they can use other land.

[veeman]

A windmill farm epitomizes toxic manswarm. 

[giant_mtb]

Some controversial windmills got canceled up here.  The problem was, they were going to have to tear apart hundreds of acres of forest not just for the windmills themselves, but also for the access roads and all that.  Fuck that.  Put those things in the desert where they belong.  Goddamn idiots living in the desert, sucking up all the ground water for almond trees and golf courses.

[12,000 RPM]

I've been to Palm Springs twice.  What would have been a beautiful scenic drive from LA was destroyed by these massive windmill farms.  I got out of the car and pulled over the side of the road.  I couldn't help but mutter in front of my kids, wtf. 

Thank god there were none of those monstrosities on my way from Las Vegas to Zion/Bryce National Parks and from Southwest Utah on the way to the Grand Canyon.  Just epic natural beauty on all sides stretching out for miles and miles.  Or in Idaho/Montana/Wyoming surrounding Yellowstone National Park.

Indeed, how dare California try and get a handle on its massive electricity problems.

Cali is crowded so odds are if they put wind turbines there people will see them (boo fucking hoo). But out in Idaho etc they have plenty of room. In any case NIMBYists, or in your case, NITBYists, are the worst.

[CaminoRacer]

Most wind farms are on the plains where the view ain't shit anyway.

[Eye of the Tiger]

A windmill farm epitomizes toxic manswarm.

I am a swarm of one.

[veeman]

Indeed, how dare California try and get a handle on its massive electricity problems.

Cali is crowded so odds are if they put wind turbines there people will see them (boo fucking hoo). But out in Idaho etc they have plenty of room. In any case NIMBYists, or in your case, NITBYists, are the worst.

I don't know what a NITBY is?  "Not in the bunker yet" is a golf term.  Regarding NIMBY, I did indicate on our annual town survey that I was very strongly against sidewalks, increased affordable housing (which generally means condos), increased space for a larger senior center, etc.)  I was strongly against all changes. Our town has high property taxes, most of which goes to the public school.  The town also has 2 acre LAND plots around every house.  And all the houses look different from one another.  And that's the way I like it. 

Maybe I'm part of the "worst".  Good.  My feeling is if you don't like our town the way it is, get out.  I'll pay my high property taxes to keep it the way it is.  The NIMBY issue is more a crowded urban San Francisco, Seattle, NYC issue, and not more rural America.  Windmills are what people in crowded San Francisco, Seattle, NYC want to put in the great LAND outside of those urban areas so that they can enjoy their lifestyle.  It doesn't impact them.  Put the windmills around your house.  Maybe Congress can sponsor a tax credit for people who want Windmills.  Get them built around your house.  I'm all for that. 

 

[SJ_GTI]

Speaking of wind power, I had no idea until recently that you can actually install you own wind power generators. I guess it makes sense...I just had never seen seen or heard of it before.

[veeman]

Yeah baby. 

https://www.motherearthnews.com/renewable-energy/wind-power/home-wind-power-zm0z13amzrob

[BimmerM3]

Speaking of wind power, I had no idea until recently that you can actually install you own wind power generators. I guess it makes sense...I just had never seen seen or heard of it before.

I've seen a few smaller ones on rooftops in Boulder.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Yeah baby. 

https://www.motherearthnews.com/renewable-energy/wind-power/home-wind-power-zm0z13amzrob

[12,000 RPM]

I don't know what a NITBY is?  "Not in the bunker yet" is a golf term.  Regarding NIMBY, I did indicate on our annual town survey that I was very strongly against sidewalks, increased affordable housing (which generally means condos), increased space for a larger senior center, etc.)  I was strongly against all changes. Our town has high property taxes, most of which goes to the public school.  The town also has 2 acre LAND plots around every house.  And all the houses look different from one another.  And that's the way I like it. 

Maybe I'm part of the "worst".  Good.  My feeling is if you don't like our town the way it is, get out.  I'll pay my high property taxes to keep it the way it is.  The NIMBY issue is more a crowded urban San Francisco, Seattle, NYC issue, and not more rural America.  Windmills are what people in crowded San Francisco, Seattle, NYC want to put in the great LAND outside of those urban areas so that they can enjoy their lifestyle.  It doesn't impact them.  Put the windmills around your house.  Maybe Congress can sponsor a tax credit for people who want Windmills.  Get them built around your house.  I'm all for that. 

You are confused. Nobody is looking to put a windmill in your backyard. And if you live somewhere where windmills might interfere with your view, you can move too.

[FoMoJo]

There are different types of renewable energy sources that can be used to provide home energy, wind, solar, geothermal.  If people are truly concerned about the dangers of burning fossil fuels on the health of the environment, these can be easily adapted to existing homes and even mandated for any new homes being built.  If I were building a house, I would make sure that it was energy self sufficient.

[FoMoJo]

You are confused. Nobody is looking to put a windmill in your backyard. And if you live somewhere where windmills might interfere with your view, you can move too.

Maybe they should put observation decks on windmills as a tourist attraction; enjoy the vista from 400 feet in the air.  They could even incorporate seating along the blades of the windmill to act as a giant ferris wheel.  They might become more popular then.

[veeman]

You are confused. Nobody is looking to put a windmill in your backyard. And if you live somewhere where windmills might interfere with your view, you can move too.

I am not confused.  You are advocating one solution to help solve US energy needs is to increase the use of  massive eyesore land desecrating windmill farms.  I am of the opinion that this is a stupid solution.  I feel that if city folk want to address their energy needs with windmill farms, they should first put them in places that they see on a daily basis.  So if NYC wants to feed it's need for energy with windmill farms, they should dot Central Park first with a thousand windmills, prior to dotting the more rural areas of NY State.  Capeesh.

It's just a matter of a difference of opinion on what weighted value people put on things.  You do not put the same value of natural land beauty that I do.  Some people are dead against nuclear power because of potential for Chernobyl type accidents.  Some people are dead against coal because of carbon emissions and their impact on climate change.  Some people are dead against natural gas fracking, etc etc.  They all have their reasons.  I am dead against giant wind mill farms. 

[CaminoRacer]

Natural land beauty? 99% of inhabited land in the US now looks way different than its natural state. The land has been cleared for farms and suburbs.

[veeman]

Natural land beauty? 99% of inhabited land in the US now looks way different than its natural state. The land has been cleared for farms and suburbs.

Exactly.  So the 1% that's left, I'd prefer not to have them filled with Windmills.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Exactly.  So the 1% that's left, I'd prefer not to have them filled with Windmills.

I'd prefer not to have 7 billion stinky ass people in the world, but unlimited reproduction seems to be a natural right.

[12,000 RPM]

I am not confused.  You are advocating one solution to help solve US energy needs is to increase the use of  massive eyesore land desecrating windmill farms.  I am of the opinion that this is a stupid solution.  I feel that if city folk want to address their energy needs with windmill farms, they should first put them in places that they see on a daily basis.  So if NYC wants to feed it's need for energy with windmill farms, they should dot Central Park first with a thousand windmills, prior to dotting the more rural areas of NY State.  Capeesh.

It's just a matter of a difference of opinion on what weighted value people put on things.  You do not put the same value of natural land beauty that I do.  Some people are dead against nuclear power because of potential for Chernobyl type accidents.  Some people are dead against coal because of carbon emissions and their impact on climate change.  Some people are dead against natural gas fracking, etc etc.  They all have their reasons.  I am dead against giant wind mill farms.

I think putting views ahead of the environment is idiotic, especially when it's so unlikely to affect you. Oh god, your views of Iowa might be ruined on the off chance that you go. LEt's stay on coal instead. W/e let's agree to disagree

[veeman]

I think putting views ahead of the environment is idiotic, especially when it's so unlikely to affect you. Oh god, your views of Iowa might be ruined on the off chance that you go. LEt's stay on coal instead. W/e let's agree to disagree

I'm an American and so decisions affecting America affect me.  I try to travel across America and I care about our landscape. I find it funny that the value of a view is diminished in some circumstances yet is everything in other  circumstances.  What do you think the difference in the value of two apartments on the same floor in an apartment in NYC would be; one facing an unobstructed view of Central Park and the other facing the slab side of a giant office building.  There are so many options regarding energy.  Giant wind farms are not a good answer in my opinion. 

It's cool.  We can disagree. I'm done too.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I'm an American and so decisions affecting America affect me.  I try to travel across America and I care about our landscape. I find it funny that the value of a view is diminished in some circumstances yet is everything in other  circumstances.  What do you think the difference in the value of two apartments on the same floor in an apartment in NYC would be; one facing an unobstructed view of Central Park and the other facing the slab side of a giant office building.  There are so many options regarding energy.  Giant wind farms are not a good answer in my opinion. 

It's cool.  We can disagree. I'm done too.

I'm not done. If you care so much about the landscape, then come on over and mow my lawn. 

[FoMoJo]

I'm not done. If you care so much about the landscape, then come on over and mow my lawn. 

Cutting grass is unnatural.  The earth should be left to the natural state of its pristine beauty.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Cutting grass is unnatural.  The earth should be left to the natural state of its pristine beauty.

That's what I usually go with, but then the dogs get lost in the yard.

[CaminoRacer]

I'm an American and so decisions affecting America affect me.  I try to travel across America and I care about our landscape. I find it funny that the value of a view is diminished in some circumstances yet is everything in other  circumstances.  What do you think the difference in the value of two apartments on the same floor in an apartment in NYC would be; one facing an unobstructed view of Central Park and the other facing the slab side of a giant office building.  There are so many options regarding energy.  Giant wind farms are not a good answer in my opinion. 

It's cool.  We can disagree. I'm done too.

Coal also ruins views. Especially here where I live. Luckily the copper mine in West SLC just announced they're gonna stop using their coal plant and buy crenewable energy from the local plant instead. It should help visibility in SLC valley quite a bit during the winter months when there's an inversion.

[Laconian]

Coal also ruins views. Especially here where I live. Luckily the copper mine in West SLC just announced they're gonna stop using their coal plant and buy crenewable energy from the local plant instead. It should help visibility in SLC valley quite a bit during the winter months when there's an inversion.

Pollution in the Salt Lake Valley gets pretty bad, doesn't it?

[CaminoRacer]

Pollution in the Salt Lake Valley gets pretty bad, doesn't it?

Yep. Some days it's the worst in the country.

[Speed_Racer]

Pollution in the Salt Lake Valley gets pretty bad, doesn't it?

Not just in the air either. The soil and water of the communities near the copper mines have been negatively affected too (though the communities did choose to build there despite the risks).

[12,000 RPM]

But the views......