EVs

[giant_mtb]

Everything they own breaks... and then they get lots of clicks

So they somehow rigged their Hummer EV to brick itself?

https://ww7.oemdtc.com/18053/no-start-no-propulsion-service-park-brake-system-message-or-dead-12-volt-battery-after-a-over-the-air-update-ota-2022-gmc-hummer-ev

lol.  Imagine a software update making your vehicle completely inoperable.

[MrH]

The EUV just needs a wiring dongle to fix the brake lights.

Someone makes that?  That would be great.

[MrH]

Never mind about getting a Bolt EUV.  The incompetence of these dealers is too much.  I can't mentally do it   I thought I've seen incompetent dealerships before, but I never really interacted with Chevy dealerships in the area.

I'm just in awe at how bad it all is operationally.

[Morris Minor]

Never mind about getting a Bolt EUV.  The incompetence of these dealers is too much.  I can't mentally do it   I thought I've seen incompetent dealerships before, but I never really interacted with Chevy dealerships in the area.

I'm just in awe at how bad it all is operationally.

We keep circling back to this issue.
Customer: I'd like to buy this car in this spec.
Manufacturer: Yes, well, we have one in production, but you will have to go through the process we call "Buying through a dealer." To give you an idea of what's involved we've prepared this handy leaflet, "Cutting off your left Bollock."

[GoCougs]

Despite the rather large cost of cars, it's still buying retail, which has always been a tough go in the USA, because a system that sells stuff to the general public exactly reflects the general public.

[MrH]

We keep circling back to this issue.
Customer: I'd like to buy this car in this spec.
Manufacturer: Yes, well, we have one in production, but you will have to go through the process we call "Buying through a dealer." To give you an idea of what's involved we've prepared this handy leaflet, "Cutting off your left Bollock."

I've been spoiled by my Subaru dealership.  They're the only competent ones I've worked with...ever?  It's not rocket science, I just don't understand why most dealerships are so, so, so poorly run.

It's really basic stuff.  I wouldn't look to Tesla as having solved it, because their setup is even worse in a lot of aspects.

[MrH]

Alright, I'm fired up, here are some basic things that they can't seem to get right:

You build your car on Chevy's website, and then you can click check inventory and it tries to match by spec and distance.  Great idea!  The system shows a ton of Bolt EUVs.  You can click on cars you like and tell the dealer you're interested in it.  Every single one I asked for more info, both in transit and in inventory, was already spoken for.  So the system has no basic way of clarifying which cars have a pending sale.  There's no way to put yourself on a list as a backup buyer, etc.

Imagine you log into Zillow to look for a house to buy, but it has no way to filter houses that are pending from those that are still for sale.  It would be totally worthless, because good houses will be sold the day they list, and then are pending for 1-2 months until it closes.  That's exactly what's happening here.  The inventory system is absolutely worthless.

Then I start digging in.  There are cars that are listed as inventory, dealership says they are already sold.  But I find the same car on CarGurus, Cars.com, etc.  They have been online for nearly a month.  And there are pictures of it on the dealer's lot, covered in snow!  You're telling me a customer ordered this vehicle, and you still went to the effort of taking pictures of it on your lot.  Not only are there vehicles showing in transit and inventory that are already spoken for, but I don't think they are removing them when they actually close the sale.  And they're doing this on purpose, because it generates sales leads.  This is about as slimey as it gets.

This is basic system design and adherence.  Chevy's system promotes this kind of awful sales tactics.


Let's talk communication.  You fill out on Chevy's website that you're interested in a car and want to check availability. You provide name, phone number, email address, and preferred form of communication.  I select email and hit submit.  I kid you not, this is the how things went with one dealer:

- Within 30 seconds, my phone starts ringing.  I send it voicemail
- They leave a voicemail.  Zero information about the car's availability
- They immediately text me.  Again, zero information about the car's availability.
- They email me.  No information about the car's availability.
- I email back: Hey, is this car I'm asking about, is it available?
- Radio silence
- A few hours later, I decide to text back: Hey, is this car available?  It's showing in transit, what would be the ETA to your dealership?
- Car dealer: "3-6 months"
- Me "...is the car I'm asking about specifically available or not?"
- Car dealer the next day: "Yes"

I'm confused.  Is it 3-6 months to order one, or is this specific one available?  I go to the dealer's website.  That specific car isn't listed.  But a whole host of Bolt EUV's were just added!  But none of them match what Chevy.com is saying they have.  Some are incorrectly listed as 2022 now.  Oh, and they have $20k in markups now

Just incredible.

[r0tor]

Just basics evidence how the age of the internet has improved our lived

[Morris Minor]

FWIW my son gave up looking (Highlander Hybrid) - he'd had $1,000 deposits out with every Toyota dealer in the Bay Area. All they did was fuck him around with junk calls etc.
So he spent $5K on fixing up his ancient Pilot in the hope of keeping it on the road another year.

[MrH]

FWIW my son gave up looking (Highlander Hybrid) - he'd had $1,000 deposits out with every Toyota dealer in the Bay Area. All they did was fuck him around with junk calls etc.
So he spent $5K on fixing up his ancient Pilot in the hope of keeping it on the road another year.

Toyota is specifically hard to buy from.  They don't do factory orders.  They produce to forecast and allocate to dealers only.  Makes its really hard to get exactly what you want.  That's a big reason why I went BRZ instead of a GR86

[AutobahnSHO]

Yeah I looked at Priuses tonight, at least the website for my local dealer says "in production expected to arrive x date" under the trim & price of a bunch of cars "for sale".....

[Morris Minor]

Yeah I looked at Priuses tonight, at least the website for my local dealer says "in production expected to arrive x date" under the trim & price of a bunch of cars "for sale".....

Toyota's light vehicle sales for January were down 16.9% YoY. Honda, Kia, Hyundai, Mazda etc. all bounced back.

[CaminoRacer]

https://keck.usc.edu/study-links-adoption-of-electric-vehicles-with-less-air-pollution-and-improved-health/

Study links adoption of electric vehicles with less air pollution and improved health
Researchers from the Keck School of Medicine of USC conducted one of the first-ever studies showing that electric cars are associated with real-world reductions in both air pollution and respiratory problems.

[AutobahnSHO]

https://keck.usc.edu/study-links-adoption-of-electric-vehicles-with-less-air-pollution-and-improved-health/

Study links adoption of electric vehicles with less air pollution and improved health
Researchers from the Keck School of Medicine of USC conducted one of the first-ever studies showing that electric cars are associated with real-world reductions in both air pollution and respiratory problems.

Seems like a super no-brainer.

I just figure the best mix will eventually be EV for commuting in cities, ICE for delivery trucks, maybe also ICE in more rural areas.

[Laconian]

Short haul delivery trucks can and should be electric! The more you make use of a battery pack the more benefit you get from it. A delivery truck going around a city or suburbs can easily do its daily run off an electric charge. A single LFP pack could run strong for a decade even with a full discharge every single day.

IMO everything ought to be hybridized to some degree, at the very least with 48V mild hybrid systems. Making idle stop suck less and reducing emissions from low speed acceleration would be a big win with fairly little expenditure, and it would go a long ways toward cleaning up the air from a lot of cities.

The government provides too much incentives to EVs that disproportionately belong to rich people. I'm OK with some level of EV subsidies but it should be capped at a much lower price point. Imagine the crazy innovation we'd see if the cap was $30k. The fuel savings would be worth much more if they were reaped by average folks. Rich people will simply invest what they save - no economic activity.

Finally it's a crime that the discussion at the federal level is entirely about subsidizing EVs. Why is nobody talking about ebikes? An ebike can provide tremendous mobility for a lot of folks using small batteries. It might not replace the use of a car for an entire year, but if ridden in the warmer months, just several hundred dollars of bike could save thousands of dollars of gas each year.

[GoCougs]

Short haul trucks are nasty and loud AF. What is even going on. I've seen many many of the Amazon/Rivian vans.

[CaminoRacer]

I love the Rivian Amazon vans. Not even because they're electric. Just because they took some effort to design it so it's pleasant to look at as it drives around my neighborhood. The other Amazon vans mostly look horrible.

[CaminoRacer]

Although I'd like any electric Fedex/UPS/OnTrac vans to at least play an ice cream truck song or something so I know when my car parts are coming

[Morris Minor]

Short haul delivery trucks can and should be electric! The more you make use of a battery pack the more benefit you get from it. A delivery truck going around a city or suburbs can easily do its daily run off an electric charge. A single LFP pack could run strong for a decade even with a full discharge every single day.

IMO everything ought to be hybridized to some degree, at the very least with 48V mild hybrid systems. Making idle stop suck less and reducing emissions from low speed acceleration would be a big win with fairly little expenditure, and it would go a long ways toward cleaning up the air from a lot of cities.

The government provides too much incentives to EVs that disproportionately belong to rich people. I'm OK with some level of EV subsidies but it should be capped at a much lower price point. Imagine the crazy innovation we'd see if the cap was $30k. The fuel savings would be worth much more if they were reaped by average folks. Rich people will simply invest what they save - no economic activity.

Finally it's a crime that the discussion at the federal level is entirely about subsidizing EVs. Why is nobody talking about ebikes? An ebike can provide tremendous mobility for a lot of folks using small batteries. It might not replace the use of a car for an entire year, but if ridden in the warmer months, just several hundred dollars of bike could save thousands of dollars of gas each year.

Agreed. I see that rich people generally debug the new toys, & the high margins they pay should help manufacturers' costs of scaling. But the drivers of innovation are designing for the everyman. It's difficult to profitably build an honest non-cynical vehicle in the Corolla segment.
Whoever is first to do that will be Model T-dominant.

[CaminoRacer]

GM might be putting US-made cells into the Bolt battery already. It could be nonsense dealership rumors but maybe there's something to it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/10t1cug/gm_of_a_very_high_volume_ev_chevy_store_ama_and_i/

GM of a very high volume EV Chevy store. AMA and I have a surprise in here for you that's big.

Chatted with my GM reps today.

The reason the vast majority of EVs are going fleet right now (the low allocation to dealers) is because GM is trying to deplete the supply of Korean Batteries!

They have American batteries, they won't completely deplete the supply of Korean batteries this month so they are going to put the rest of those in fullfillment center cars and only allow you to tag them for leases (since the lease doesn't qualify for the 7500)

Anyways wanted to share I know a lot of people have had anxiety around getting a car before 3/1 and it looks like dealers will have a solution shortly.

[MrH]

  These laws are all so dumb.  Creates the most bizarre incentives and people respond.  And it just adds cost to the whole process.  I hate the government.

[giant_mtb]

I love the Rivian Amazon vans. Not even because they're electric. Just because they took some effort to design it so it's pleasant to look at as it drives around my neighborhood. The other Amazon vans mostly look horrible.

Yeah those Rivian Amazon units are super cool.

[giant_mtb]

Short haul trucks are nasty and loud AF. What is even going on. I've seen many many of the Amazon/Rivian vans.

My town is so small, the local Post Office guys could probably get 3-4 days of mail delivery on an EV mail rig. They just basically drive block-to-block, park, and walk the mail anyways.

[MrH]

GM might be putting US-made cells into the Bolt battery already. It could be nonsense dealership rumors but maybe there's something to it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/10t1cug/gm_of_a_very_high_volume_ev_chevy_store_ama_and_i/

Wow, good find.  You can actually see on the window stickers which one have US batteries and which ones don't.

I think in that case, I'm going to go ahead and place an order.  If resale on the outback completely falls apart or I can't get the full EV credit for whatever reason, then I just backout and get my deposit back.

[Morris Minor]

Went to an outlet mall today  - right out at the furthest extent of the parking lot, the farthest you can get from the mall, is a couple of sad EVGo public chargers. Just dire and shabby. Perfect place for predators to stalk.

[CaminoRacer]

Went to an outlet mall today  - right out at the furthest extent of the parking lot, the farthest you can get from the mall, is a couple of sad EVGo public chargers. Just dire and shabby. Perfect place for predators to stalk.

I hate when they put chargers at the front in prime spots, though. They're always blocked by other cars if it's a close spot. A well-lit spot at the back is my preference.

[AutobahnSHO]

It's difficult to profitably build an honest non-cynical vehicle in the Corolla segment.
Whoever is first to do that will be Model T-dominant.

Nah, it's just not as profitable. Look at the Maverick. Completely sold out two years in a row, the second year orders stopped after two weeks.

They could build more but won't- allocation for many parts (computer chips) goes to other vehicles.

They have the new model T already.

[Morris Minor]

Nah, it's just not as profitable. Look at the Maverick. Completely sold out two years in a row, the second year orders stopped after two weeks.

They could build more but won't- allocation for many parts (computer chips) goes to other vehicles.

They have the new model T already.

Actually I think you're right. I was thinking about what I said, & the margins are so much better on bigger vehicles. They cost not much more to build and the markups are much juicier.

[Morris Minor]

Marques is right...

https://youtu.be/BA2qJKU8t2k

[Laconian]

Seven minutes...