Ticket quotas?

[Laconian]

I've heard a lot of people blaming their tickets on traffic citation quotas. Do these exist, how widespread are they, and what is it like having to deal with the pressure to meet them, should any of our resident LEO posters live in jurisdictions with quotas?

[TurboDan]

This Winter, I took a course in Public Administration and it was taught by a former Police Captain.  He said that they've generally gotten rid of written quotas, but depending on the city/town there sometimes are unwritten rules about how many tickets to give out (usually under pressure from politicians).  He said that in one department, they gave out an extra day off for whoever wrote the most tickets one time.

In his department, though, he said that generally, most of the officers wanted to catch "real" criminals, and there were a couple officers that relished in giving out tickets, and they usually wrote out enough to keep the politicians from complaining.

[Catman]

We don't have quotas as they violate the labor contract.  I'm sure some depts have them though.

[NomisR]

At some places, you'd have to assume they have quotas though.  As I have mentioned on C&D, like on Venice Beach, you have bunch of cops camped out right in front of the main parking lot area to the beach pulling over everyone without a license plate and one of them patrolling the street ticketing people without license plate.  You'd think people or local businesses would complain though but I guess not since they get enough business as is.  I for one sure as hell isn't going there ever again.

[DC3Skyliner]

Every department has their "hot pencils" and one motor officer can be worth their weight in gold but I think most patrol officers are out there to enforce the law and make the world a safer place.

[TBR]

They certainly shouldn't exist. I think that is really the reason some people have a negative impression of law enforcement, they think that the police are trying to the "big man on campus" by giving out tickets, while in reality the problem is the politicians and they are money hungry, not power hungry. Ultimately, I can find a way to blame all this on FDR if you want, but I really don't want to get into that right now  

[BartsSVO]

Quotas are banned by statute here in Georgia, but on more than one occasion the local media or a disgruntled officer will blow the whistle on a department that still has an unoffical ticket quota. There was a community by the name of Pine Lake just outside of Atlanta that generated somewhere around 80% of that town's revenue off of traffic citations. While no official written quota existed, an investigation by the State of Georgia after numerous complaints about the department showed a pattern that suggested that the handful of officers were probably "encouraged" to write a large number of citations. Ironically soon afterwards the tiny police department building/city hall burned to the ground and the city folded.

The ex-town of New Rome in Ohio was another example of where no official quota existed. But the "officers" (and I use that term very loosely, based on the stories I've read) probably had some kind of incentive to write the extremely large number of citations that they did. I understand that property taxes were virtually non-existant there.  

[L. ed foote]

tut, tut, tut...

Performance Objectives  :)  

[J86]

They certainly shouldn't exist. I think that is really the reason some people have a negative impression of law enforcement, they think that the police are trying to the "big man on campus" by giving out tickets, while in reality the problem is the politicians and they are money hungry, not power hungry. Ultimately, I can find a way to blame all this on FDR if you want, but I really don't want to get into that right now

Just to be a pain in the ass, I will argue FDR as one of our most conservative presidents.  (I actually do have a half-assed explanation to that.)  Want to go? :P  

[Why?]

I like blaming FDR, he is a good scapegoat. Conservative, lol, if hillary clinton is conservative,

I've never heard of a TOWN folding, wow.

[dazzleman]

I think most departments have unofficial ticket quotas, and will continue to, whatever they say about the subject.  Quantity of tickets written is one indicator of an officer's productivity, but it should be the whole story.

Just as officers should not write questionable tickets just to meet a quota, they should not ignore potentially dangerous violations either.

I did a ride-along with my local police deparment, with two separate officers.  One was pretty "ticket happy" and gave out a fair number of tickets, according to what he told me, while the other was much less inclined to give out tickets.

Whether there are quotas or not, the driver still have the choice of whether or not to obey the law.  If you choose not to obey the law (as I often do with speed limits), you must do so with an awareness of the potential consequences.  If you can't accept them, obey the law.

[TBR]

They certainly shouldn't exist. I think that is really the reason some people have a negative impression of law enforcement, they think that the police are trying to the "big man on campus" by giving out tickets, while in reality the problem is the politicians and they are money hungry, not power hungry. Ultimately, I can find a way to blame all this on FDR if you want, but I really don't want to get into that right now

Just to be a pain in the ass, I will argue FDR as one of our most conservative presidents.  (I actually do have a half-assed explanation to that.)  Want to go? :P

I've yet to here of any conservatives pushing government run welfare programs  

[BartsSVO]

I think most departments have unofficial ticket quotas, and will continue to, whatever they say about the subject.  Quantity of tickets written is one indicator of an officer's productivity, but it should be the whole story.

Just as officers should not write questionable tickets just to meet a quota, they should not ignore potentially dangerous violations either.

I did a ride-along with my local police deparment, with two separate officers.  One was pretty "ticket happy" and gave out a fair number of tickets, according to what he told me, while the other was much less inclined to give out tickets.

Whether there are quotas or not, the driver still have the choice of whether or not to obey the law.  If you choose not to obey the law (as I often do with speed limits), you must do so with an awareness of the potential consequences.  If you can't accept them, obey the law.

A friend of mine who is an officer in a local department hates doing stationary traffic enforcement. He tells me that he can write all the tickets he cares to just driving around watching people doing stupid and dangerous things. Since I imagine his experience is fairly representative of drivers everywhere, it makes me wonder why departments insist on setting up these regular speed enforcement zones with half a dozen cops sitting around when they could probably do more good just out on regular patrol.

[Catman]

I think most departments have unofficial ticket quotas, and will continue to, whatever they say about the subject.  Quantity of tickets written is one indicator of an officer's productivity, but it should be the whole story.

Just as officers should not write questionable tickets just to meet a quota, they should not ignore potentially dangerous violations either.

I did a ride-along with my local police deparment, with two separate officers.  One was pretty "ticket happy" and gave out a fair number of tickets, according to what he told me, while the other was much less inclined to give out tickets.

Whether there are quotas or not, the driver still have the choice of whether or not to obey the law.  If you choose not to obey the law (as I often do with speed limits), you must do so with an awareness of the potential consequences.  If you can't accept them, obey the law.

A friend of mine who is an officer in a local department hates doing stationary traffic enforcement. He tells me that he can write all the tickets he cares to just driving around watching people doing stupid and dangerous things. Since I imagine his experience is fairly representative of drivers everywhere, it makes me wonder why departments insist on setting up these regular speed enforcement zones with half a dozen cops sitting around when they could probably do more good just out on regular patrol.

Because alot of people request them.  Unfortunately.

Where's the pics of that SVO you're working on?

[SargeMonkey]

They have them in oregon, its a bonuse if you get a sertin number but I don't know it.

[BartsSVO]

Where's the pics of that SVO you're working on?

They're coming. Because the car is in such shambles right now I've decided that I'm probably going to just document building the car back up. It will be going to the paint shop a week from this upcoming Saturday and the machine work should be done in the next week or two. I'll throw in a few "before" pics when I'm loading it up on the trailer since that will be the first time it will be out of the garage in about 2 months.  

[Catman]

Where's the pics of that SVO you're working on?

They're coming. Because the car is in such shambles right now I've decided that I'm probably going to just document building the car back up. It will be going to the paint shop a week from this upcoming Saturday and the machine work should be done in the next week or two. I'll throw in a few "before" pics when I'm loading it up on the trailer since that will be the first time it will be out of the garage in about 2 months.

Sounds good. B)  

[giant_mtb]

Question...What are ticket quotas?  (I know next to nothing about traffic violations and the likes...)

[Catman]

Question...What are ticket quotas?  (I know next to nothing about traffic violations and the likes...)

Some department require a certain number of citations a month.  Officers are rewarded new toasters, gift certificates, vacations, etc for writing alot.  Hey, there's the UPS guy now with my new DVD player.  Gotta go! :P  

[giant_mtb]

lol Oh I see...

[James Young]

Catman was funnin? ya.  

Quotas, or ?performance criteria? or whatever other name they go under exist in some enforcement agencies.  Most of the sophisticated agencies now use ?contacts? with the public, either as citations, warnings, stranded motorists, being flagged down by the public, etc.  

The rewards may as simple as Catman?s toaster or as complex as unstated but understood, ?No tickets, no job.?  I doubt that any of our resident LEOs work for agencies crass enough to do that.


Quotas are minimums, thus belying the old cop joke, I don?t have a quota; I can write as many as I want.?

[Catman]

Catman was funnin? ya.  

Quotas, or ?performance criteria? or whatever other name they go under exist in some enforcement agencies.  Most of the sophisticated agencies now use ?contacts? with the public, either as citations, warnings, stranded motorists, being flagged down by the public, etc.  

The rewards may as simple as Catman?s toaster or as complex as unstated but understood, ?No tickets, no job.?  I doubt that any of our resident LEOs work for agencies crass enough to do that.


Quotas are minimums, thus belying the old cop joke, I don?t have a quota; I can write as many as I want.?

Any type of Quota violates my union contract.  But, that doesn't mean you can spend eight hours doing nothing.  

[James Young]

Catman was funnin? ya.   

Quotas, or ?performance criteria? or whatever other name they go under exist in some enforcement agencies.  Most of the sophisticated agencies now use ?contacts? with the public, either as citations, warnings, stranded motorists, being flagged down by the public, etc. 

The rewards may as simple as Catman?s toaster or as complex as unstated but understood, ?No tickets, no job.?  I doubt that any of our resident LEOs work for agencies crass enough to do that.


Quotas are minimums, thus belying the old cop joke, I don?t have a quota; I can write as many as I want.?

Any type of Quota violates my union contract.  But, that doesn't mean you can spend eight hours doing nothing.

Catman, don't you work for a pretty enlightened agency?

[dazzleman]

I am not too concerned about whether police have ticket quotas or not.

There are enough people out there doing stupid things that LEOs can write more than enough legitimate tickets to fill any conceivable quota, without giving tickets to those who don't deserve them.

And Catman is right that targeted speed enforcement is often requested by our fellow citizens.  It is not necessarily some evil plot dreamed up by those evil law enforcment agencies.

People have a basic hypocrisy when it comes to traffic laws, and this hypocrisy is reflected in the way our laws are written and implemented.  People want the law to restrain the other guy, but not them.  The same people who speed past other people's houses complain if a car speeds past their house, and apply political pressure on the police to write tickets.  I have seen it happen.  

I have been to neighborhood meeting where people have demanded that the police keep cars off their street completely, and some of these streets are main roads!  Many people simply have no concept about what the police can and can't do, and want them to be in all places at all times.  But of course, the police must never ticket them, even if what they're doing is blatantly illegal.

The police are the pawns in our hypocrisy relating to our traffic laws.  They are not the cause of the problem.  The police take orders from the politicians, and we all know who puts the politicians in power.

[Catman]

Catman was funnin? ya.   

Quotas, or ?performance criteria? or whatever other name they go under exist in some enforcement agencies.  Most of the sophisticated agencies now use ?contacts? with the public, either as citations, warnings, stranded motorists, being flagged down by the public, etc. 

The rewards may as simple as Catman?s toaster or as complex as unstated but understood, ?No tickets, no job.?  I doubt that any of our resident LEOs work for agencies crass enough to do that.


Quotas are minimums, thus belying the old cop joke, I don?t have a quota; I can write as many as I want.?

Any type of Quota violates my union contract.  But, that doesn't mean you can spend eight hours doing nothing.

Catman, don't you work for a pretty enlightened agency?

Not sure I'd describe it as enlightened.  In what respect, traffic enforcement?

[James Young]

Catman writes:

Not sure I'd describe it as enlightened. In what respect, traffic enforcement?

By ?enlightened? I meant that they apply their resources to issues of importance or that are already problems rather than creating issues or revenue.  Elimination of quotas is such an application.  It ill serves the public to have Officer Bob hiding in the bushes with his trusty radar unit while there is blocked traffic half a mile away.  Recognizing that keeping traffic moving is a greater issue than slowing it down.  Measuring the decline in crime statistics as a measure of effectiveness rather than counting the number of citations or arrests is enlightened.  A rampant issue in West Hollywood (a heavily gay area) is luring guys into limos and asking for sex and then arresting them.  That is not enlightened.  Using scientific tabulations as the basis for policy and then quantifying the results of that policy.  

[Catman]

Catman writes:

Not sure I'd describe it as enlightened. In what respect, traffic enforcement?

By ?enlightened? I meant that they apply their resources to issues of importance or that are already problems rather than creating issues or revenue.? Elimination of quotas is such an application.? It ill serves the public to have Officer Bob hiding in the bushes with his trusty radar unit while there is blocked traffic half a mile away.? Recognizing that keeping traffic moving is a greater issue than slowing it down.? Measuring the decline in crime statistics as a measure of effectiveness rather than counting the number of citations or arrests is enlightened.? A rampant issue in West Hollywood (a heavily gay area) is luring guys into limos and asking for sex and then arresting them.? That is not enlightened.? Using scientific tabulations as the basis for policy and then quantifying the results of that policy.

I would say that your statement is more accurate than not.  While we do get pressure on occasion to do more traffic enforcement I think it's more an issue of keeping busy and addressing complaints than it is about raising revenue.  In the past the town manager has bitched about lower numbers but he doesn't direct our operations.  The towns 2006 budget is at 103.8 million dollars.  In the past I've seen revenue from cites at around $150,000 or so.  Compared to the overall budget it's a small number so it really doesn't get alot of attention.  And, while we don't see a direct benefit finacially I would imagine that it does come back to us in some ways.  Like this year we asked for $30,000 for new firearms and got it.  However, items like that are approved by town meeting and not the town manager or selectmen.  

We do have a traffic division that does do speed traps, etc.  They also do traffic control at town events, child seat installs and address many resident concerns regarding traffic issues.  

I'd say we're better than most departments when it comes to fair enforcement.  I will say that management always refers to numbers because it's the easiest way to gauge performance.  Supervision is tough in LE because guys are out of sight driving around.  The assumption is that if there is no numbers and no talk on the radio than nothing is being done.  Sometimes it's true but no always.  It's always been a problem for police supervisors.

[dazzleman]

Catman, does your department have an accident investigation unit?

I studied up on that a little bit when I took my citizen's police academy class, and it sounded pretty cool.

The guy on my local department who worked with the child safety seats was pretty fanatical. :P   He said that any child under 12 should be in a booster seat, which is really impractical.  One the guys in the class called him on it, talking about the size of his 11-year-old daughter, and how it would be impossible to put her and her friends in booster seats when he took them somewhere.  The officer stood his ground, but it was pretty comical.

In Connecticut, revenue from traffic tickets goes to the state, so there's no real incentive for the towns to do a lot of enforcement, other than in response to legitimate safety concerns or, more likely, complaints about speeding from persnickety residents.  My local department is relatively lax on traffic enforcement, though I did get nailed by them once for speeding (in a commercial district) when they were running special enforcement details.

Connecticut is very inconsistent with traffic enforcement.  They tend to have highly celebrated crackdowns, and then once it ends, they hardly ticket anybody.  The consistent, day-to-day effort usually isn't there, either with local or state police, in my experience.  Another thing I've noticed is that enforcement is all or nothing.  If you see one cop car doing speed enforcement in Connecticut, whether on the highway or local streets, watch out, because you'll probably see a lot more in close vicinity.  One night, I drove from one end of my town to the other on Route 1, and encountered no less than 5 separate speedtraps.  Luckily, I was wise to it, so I didn't get nailed.  It was also a very short time after I was ticketed in a similar enforcement detail (not complaining about the ticket, though -- I deserved it).  But most of the time, there's no traffic enforcement except in very isolated cases.

My sense is that for most officers, traffic enforcement is a bit of a bother, especially those speed details where they have to sit and wait for speeders.  Maybe a few get their rocks off doing that type of duty, but most would rather be patrolling and looking for more serious activity, if given the choice.  When I had one of my ride-alongs, the LEO who hosted me thanked me for coming that night, because apparently my presence got him off doing a speed enforcement detail.

I know there are some places that go crazy with tickets.  Where I used to live in NY, there were two villages nearly that were pretty zealous with traffic enforcement.  Yes, I got tickets a few times in both those villages, but they were still my own fault.  There's always that choice, that free will, that we are all free to exercise, and even overzealous enforcement, provided it's not downright fraudulent, can be avoided by following the law.  No overzealous LEO can take away a driver's free will.  To suggest that they can gives them too much power.  That's why I don't get too concerned about whether police have traffic ticket quotas or not.

[Catman]

Ww have an officer trained for accident reconstruction and the State Police assist too.

[dazzleman]

Ww have an officer trained for accident reconstruction and the State Police assist too.

How big is your department in total?  My local department is 106 officers total.