Infiniti Quietly Axes Q70 Luxury Sedan

[12,000 RPM]

Yes, the late 90s were a real dark period for the Japanese auto industry. Cost cutting was blatant.

Oddly, the Germans went through a similar low, I want to say due to some currency issues.

[veeman]

The problems with Infiniti and Nissan in general are not related to the late 90s though.  Ghosn saved Nissan from bankruptcy in the late 1990s/early 2000s.  The CVT transmission has caused them a lot of warranty/reliability related headache and that was first put in the early to mid 2000s.  They've also had a ton of their sales to fleets which decreases profit.

The Maxima was made ugly beginning in 2004.  The Pathfinder was neutered in 2013.  The Xterra was a legit Jeep competitor with a good following so instead of investing money to keep the following going, they decided it wasn't worth the cost.  They probably just couldn't afford to. 

It's just hard to compete with the reliability of Toyota/Honda and value of Hyundai/Kia.  GM and Ford have an inherent domestic fanboy factor that they can rely on.

[12,000 RPM]

I think Korean value is a bit of a red herring. They are priced lower new, but lose their value faster and are less reliable. Long term value always wins out over short term value in the end.

I think Nissan can find a sweet spot between the two... they have to be priced cheaper than Honda/Toyota just on principle, but they can play the showroom wow factor of the Koreans too.

Really though they just need to update their damn vehicles.

[veeman]

The Korean value in the US is both initial cost and better new car warranty.  Long term you take a bite on resale but most Americans don't think long term.

[12,000 RPM]

Good cars don't need long warranties.

[MX793]

Good cars don't need long warranties.

Hyundai/Kia warranties are non-transferable, so they reduce their risk exposure to some degree since many people get rid of their car after 3-4 years, especially lessees.

[r0tor]

The Korean value in the US is both initial cost and better new car warranty.  Long term you take a bite on resale but most Americans don't think long term.

If your saving $10-20k up front, long term resale really doesn't matter much

[veeman]

Good cars don't need long warranties.

I don't think so.  I don't think there's much of a correlation between quality of product and length/breadth of warranty.  I think it's more a calculation between how many sales you can gain by offering a longer more comprehensive warranty vs how much money you'll lose because of warranty covered repairs as well as history of the brand.  When Hyundai/Kia initially wanted to establish a foothold in the US, they heavily advertised the best warranty in the industry and consequently, because of that history, cannot easily reverse course.  In Canada the warranty is less.  VW recently upped their warranty and then very recently decreased their warranty a bit because it was costing them too much.  Honda and Toyota don't have great warranties (and in general are reliable brands) but so do many other brands which are not considered that reliable.

[MX793]

I don't think so.  I don't think there's much of a correlation between quality of product and length/breadth of warranty.  I think it's more a calculation between how many sales you can gain by offering a longer more comprehensive warranty vs how much money you'll lose because of warranty covered repairs as well as history of the brand.  When Hyundai/Kia initially wanted to establish a foothold in the US, they heavily advertised the best warranty in the industry and consequently, because of that history, cannot easily reverse course.  In Canada the warranty is less.  VW recently upped their warranty and then very recently decreased their warranty a bit because it was costing them too much.  Honda and Toyota don't have great warranties (and in general are reliable brands) but so do many other brands which are not considered that reliable.

Sometimes struggling brands increase their warranty to try to attract buyers.  Chrysler increased their powertrain warranty from the industry standard 3/36 to 7/100 in the late 90s or early 2000s in response to flagging sales and a less than stellar reputation for reliability.  Of course, if you ever tried to use it they'd find an excuse to deny the claim, as happened to my cousin when the transmission cooler in her Neon failed and pumped trans fluid into the radiator (and engine coolant into the transmission).  Apparently the radiator/transmission cooler is not part of the "powertrain", according to them, and therefore not covered...

[12,000 RPM]

I don't think so.  I don't think there's much of a correlation between quality of product and length/breadth of warranty.  I think it's more a calculation between how many sales you can gain by offering a longer more comprehensive warranty vs how much money you'll lose because of warranty covered repairs as well as history of the brand.  When Hyundai/Kia initially wanted to establish a foothold in the US, they heavily advertised the best warranty in the industry and consequently, because of that history, cannot easily reverse course.  In Canada the warranty is less.  VW recently upped their warranty and then very recently decreased their warranty a bit because it was costing them too much.  Honda and Toyota don't have great warranties (and in general are reliable brands) but so do many other brands which are not considered that reliable.

I mean this is kind of a long winded way of saying what I said lol. Long warranties are just marketing targeting the uninformed. Even if you have a long warranty, they don't cover you for all the time and hassle of dealing with an unreliable POS. And that's IF they even honor the warranty in the first place

I'd rather just go with a car that doesn't break in the first place.

[veeman]

The annoying GM commercial guy with the "real people" acting surprised when he proclaims GM is the most reliable brand etc (based on some obscure survey) is just marketing targeting the uninformed. 

I think your argument would make sense if Hyundai/Kia were unreliable brands or if reliable brands seldom had non wear and tear mechanical, structural, or electrical issues within the first several years of ownership.  The only company that could possibly get a pass on that i think is Toyota/Lexus. 

Hondas/Acuras have had some reliability problems of late. 

[AltinD]

I mean this is kind of a long winded way of saying what I said lol. Long warranties are just marketing targeting the uninformed. Even if you have a long warranty, they don't cover you for all the time and hassle of dealing with an unreliable POS. And that's IF they even honor the warranty in the first place

I'd rather just go with a car that doesn't break in the first place.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2019-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds

[giant_mtb]

FCA...rockin the bottom.

[MrH]

Oh Volvo

[Eye of the Tiger]

Too bad Porsche doesn't make a subcompact economy car.

[12,000 RPM]

Too bad Porsche doesn't make a subcompact economy car.

Give them time.

[MX793]

Give them time.

Won't happen.  Now, a subcompact CUV based on the Polo, on the other hand...

[12,000 RPM]

A hatchback on stilts is still a car to me

[Eye of the Tiger]

Give them time.

I may own a Porsche some day!!!!! ?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Won't happen.  Now, a subcompact CUV based on the Polo, on the other hand...

Oh ...

[GoCougs]

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2019-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds

VW, Audi, BMW, M-B and Chrysler above Honda?

Fake news * trillion.

[MX793]

I think the recent engine issues tanked Honda, since that engine is used in all of their high volume models.

[12,000 RPM]

Yea there are some complaints about the safety and infotainment systems too. I'd still roll the dice on a Honda over a VWAG product

[Laconian]

Earth Nightmares