FCA and PSA discussing potential merger

[Laconian]

"Chrysler: reanimating the oldE-class platforms for 100 years and counting"

[MrH]

"Chrysler: reanimating the oldE-class platforms for 100 years and counting"

Yep.  Dodge Journey carries on with a 4-speed auto that's like 25 or 30 years old.  Something crazy like that.  And never forget this description it had on their website

[Laconian]

Such luxury! Thank you Crassler!

[AutobahnSHO]

Yep.  Dodge Journey carries on with a 4-speed auto that's like 25 or 30 years old.  Something crazy like that.  And never forget this description it had on their website

Does it at least not break by now?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Does it at least not break by now?

No, it doesn't not break.

[cawimmer430]

Here's the current Peugeot 508 you guys are lusting after. No frontal photo, private property...

[12,000 RPM]

We have a euro wagon (Regal Tour X) and nobody is buying it. I'm tired of the fake wagon lust. Everyone pines for wagons and just buys an Outback anyway.

[Laconian]

Wagons are assigned premium prices in the States relative to sedans and crossovers, so people buy those instead. It's a guaranteed feedback loop to sales oblivion.

In Europe wagons are just another trim level and aren't priced as curiosities for niche weirdos.

[MrH]

We have a euro wagon (Regal Tour X) and nobody is buying it. I'm tired of the fake wagon lust. Everyone pines for wagons and just buys an Outback anyway.

An Outback is a wagon though...?

Regal TourX doesn't sell because it sucks.  I lust for good wagons, not bad ones

[Laconian]

TSX wagon was great. Too bad it drank premium and only made 200hp.

[cawimmer430]

We have a euro wagon (Regal Tour X) and nobody is buying it. I'm tired of the fake wagon lust. Everyone pines for wagons and just buys an Outback anyway.

Seems to me that wagons have a sort of premium image in the US. Volvo and MB and maybe Audi/BMW seem to get away with it for the most part.

[Laconian]

Seems to me that wagons have a sort of premium image in the US. Volvo and MB and maybe Audi/BMW seem to get away with it for the most part.

I would hazard a guess that the X3/X5 outsell 3 and 5 series wagons by a ratio of 50 to 1. They're not in any dealer's inventory and they are expensive

[cawimmer430]

I would hazard a guess that the X3/X5 outsell 3 and 5 series wagons by a ratio of 50 to 1. They're not in any dealer's inventory and they are expensive

Man, no wonder carmakers are churning out these hilarious electric SUVs and claim they're "green" - and here in hysterical Germany those same cars are getting hate from these radical "Fridays For [No] Future" and "Extinct Rebellion" punks.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Wagons are assigned premium prices in the States relative to sedans and crossovers, so people buy those instead. It's a guaranteed feedback loop to sales oblivion.

In Europe wagons are just another trim level and aren't priced as curiosities for niche weirdos.

[MrH]

TSX wagon was great. Too bad it drank premium and only made 200hp.

I loved the look of those. The V6 would have helped a lot. Auto only + 5speed auto + FWD was tough to overcome.

If they remade the cross tour now they'd sell in volume I think. Raise up the accord, make it a hatch, add AWD

[Laconian]

Nah, the rear roofline was guaranteed to produce traumatic brain injuries on parents attempting to attach and remove child seats. The concept was fine, but the execution was fatally flawed.

[12,000 RPM]

I have an idea to solve the child loading problem. If I get some time after the year's over I might fire up Blender

[veeman]

Lol at the prices Merc was asking for E class wagons a decade or two ago.  Even non AMG variants were over 70 grand and when optioned up came close to 90 grand.  Then they would get lemon lawed because while it drove great, it was at the dealership every other month because the electronics glitched and something as simple as the radio wouldn't work.

It doesn't make much sense to get a wagon in the US and customers have made that clear by not buying them even when the product is good.  The Mazda 6 Wagon drove well and looked good and was priced decently but didn't sell.  The advantage of a wagon over an SUV is that it handles better when driving fast and saves gas money.  You can't legally drive fast in the US on curvy roads and gas is cheap.  So why not get an SUV which is more macho and has better off road and snow driving credentials.  It's almost as if someone chooses a Merc E class wagon over a Merc M class SUV in the U.S. just to be a contrarian. 

Let's say a decade ago you like Honda and the Accord but want something with more luggage space and AWD for the winter.  So you go to the dealership and check out the Crosstour.  But sitting right next to it is a Pilot.  The Pilot looks better, is definitely more macho, has better light off road and snow driving potential, and priced just a bit higher.  Gas money difference isn't too much.  So 4 out of 5 people get the Pilot. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

I have an idea to solve the child loading problem. If I get some time after the year's over I might fire up Blender

Child load is, what, 3 years, and then they can load themselves. Tough it out. 

[MrH]

Nah, the rear roofline was guaranteed to produce traumatic brain injuries on parents attempting to attach and remove child seats. The concept was fine, but the execution was fatally flawed.

Well yeah.  The previous one was poorly executed.  But the idea of a Crosstour, executed well now?  They'd sell in bunches.

[veeman]

Well yeah.  The previous one was poorly executed.  But the idea of a Crosstour, executed well now?  They'd sell in bunches.

Basically something to go toe to toe with the Outback.  There are three times as many CRVs sold as Outbacks and the Pilot sells pretty well too.  I think it's low yield for Honda to try to do that.  It's better for them to spend R&D on a model 3 competitor and make better Acura models. 

[MrH]

Basically something to go toe to toe with the Outback.  There are three times as many CRVs sold as Outbacks and the Pilot sells pretty well too.  I think it's low yield for Honda to try to do that.  It's better for them to spend R&D on a model 3 competitor and make better Acura models. 

  You're arguing they're better off developing a vehicle from the ground up to compete against the Model 3, which Tesla struggles to make money on and ignore chasing after the Outback market, which they could easily go after, sells in bigger volumes, at better margins, with minimal investment?

[veeman]

  You're arguing they're better off developing a vehicle from the ground up to compete against the Model 3, which Tesla struggles to make money on and ignore chasing after the Outback market, which they could easily go after, sells in bigger volumes, at better margins, with minimal investment?

Yeah, you're right I am arguing that they're better off making an electric car because that's the future.  It could be that all the other car manufacturers are wrong though.  I'm also of the opinion that making an SUV styled wagon is low yield for Honda because they already have very successful SUVs which straddle that price range and their previous attempt of the Crosstour failed as did one of their competitors —> Toyota Venza. 

[Laconian]

The Venza was built for Buick drivers. Slow, floaty, overboosted. It looked like a wagon but it drove like a BOF SUV. The TSX wagon... now that was a precision instrument. Lots of space with dialed-in handling and steering, something high CoG SUVs can't possibly pull off.

[12,000 RPM]

I think the cross section of people who want a precision driving instrument but also need large cargo apertures and volumes for their active lifestyles is very small

Plus I don't know that a 6 or TSX wagon really drive that much better than something like the RDX SH-AWD or CX-5 turbo. If you just want the low driving position (I do) then it doesn't matter how well the CUV drives. But crossover driving dynamics have made big strides over the last decade.

[veeman]

I'm pretty sure some of the real sporty SUVs out there currently can out handle a TSX wagon.  A Macan (although much more expensive) for example.  If a customer wants real sporty excellent handling dynamics, they're not going to go for a wagon anyways.  A hatchback sure but why a wagon?  So you have that niche of a customer that wants a canyon carver and haul a family and need trunk space for a ski trip.  If they're wealthy they get a German luxury sporty SUV and if they don't want to spend that kind of money or can't, they get the TSX wagon.  I get it. 

[veeman]

I think the cross section of people who want a precision driving instrument but also need large cargo apertures and volumes for their active lifestyles is very small

Plus I don't know that a 6 or TSX wagon really drive that much better than something like the RDX SH-AWD or CX-5 turbo. If you just want the low driving position (I do) then it doesn't matter how well the CUV drives. But crossover driving dynamics have made big strides over the last decade.

You beat me to it :)

[AutobahnSHO]

Here's the current Peugeot 508 you guys are lusting after. No frontal photo, private property...

HAWT.
I was in Argentina in the mid-90s, the 508 wagon was hot then too.

[WookieOnRitalin]

Here's the current Peugeot 508 you guys are lusting after. No frontal photo, private property...

I'd tap that.

[WookieOnRitalin]

You guys also seem to forget the Saab 9-3 and 9-5 Wagon variants. I know the financial crisis nuked Saab, but damn if they were not excellent. I miss my 9-3.