Kia EV9

[CaminoRacer]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2024-kia-ev9-suv-first-look-review/



The 2024 Kia EV9 SUV has officially broken cover, sort of. This all-new, large three-row electric SUV was first previewed by the wild EV9 concept at last year's L.A. auto show and has been confirmed for production, and it's nearly done with development and very much dusted—literally.

Kia released its first official images of the production EV9 electric SUV in action; the photos aren't nudes, however—the EV9 is going through its final testing phases ahead of its debut which is set for the first quarter of 2023. Even so, in one announcement Kia has revealed generally what the EV9 is going to look like and gave us its debut window. Not bad for those who are really looking forward to the Korean automaker's next EV.

The EV9 will play a crucial role in the expansion of Kia's EV fleet. Surely the automaker is determined to strike while the proverbial iron is hot, given how the smaller EV6 has faired very well on the review circuit and demand is high. A bigger alternative is sure to be eaten up by a public that can't seem to get enough of the similarly boxy, traditionally powered Kia Telluride.

Kia says the EV9 is set to be its "flagship," model so expect it to have the best of everything Kia has to offer along with a price to match. Apparently, the EV9 has been in development for 44 months—since well before even the concept version appeared in 2021—and throughout that period has been tested for range, performance, and comfort. This final phase of testing held at Kia's global Namyang R&D center in Korea is meant to measure the EV9's durability.

The EV9 is being pushed through what Kia calls a "verification program" on a climbing hill and a "rough terrain" track. Additionally, Kia is putting the EV9 through deep-water wading tests which sounds like an exceptionally dicey thing to do in an EV, but is pretty standard practice among makers of electric SUVs these days. After all, what good is an adventurous and rugged SUV that can't handle a little water?

Tests aside, these first images provide a decent look at the EV9's production styling cues, covered though they are by a vinyl camouflage wrap. One thing we can't tell from these photos is if the 2024 Kia EV9 will feature the "digital tiger face" front end found on the concept car from last year. Otherwise, even with the wrap in place, we can see that the production EV9 retains much of the show vehicle's sharp angular lines and boxy shape. Like the EV6, the 2024 Kia EV9 will be built on the Electric Global Modular Platform (E-GMP), which is an electrified platform Kia shares with Hyundai and Genesis.

Expect to hear more about the 2024 Kia EV9 early next year. Our guess is that the EV9's debut may likely take place around the Chicago auto show, which is set to take place in February 2023.

[veeman]

Generally I think it's more common for a family to have one large SUV or minivan and another smaller SUV or sedan/hatchback.  The large SUV or minivan would also serve as the long distance travel family vacation car.

Not sure how well this will sell.  A family who gets this would then also need another ICE large SUV or minivan to serve as their long distance travel family vacation car. 

[Morris Minor]

Generally I think it's more common for a family to have one large SUV or minivan and another smaller SUV or sedan/hatchback.  The large SUV or minivan would also serve as the long distance travel family vacation car.

Not sure how well this will sell.  A family who gets this would then also need another ICE large SUV or minivan to serve as their long distance travel family vacation car. 

That's a valid point. The current state of charging infrastructure does not lend itself to choosing EVs for those odd long-haul family trips. Not much fun arriving at a broken charge station with 4% remaining and screaming kids in the back.
There's plenty to the argument for having both a larger ICE SUV plus a smaller BEV for the around-town stuff.

[r0tor]

The logical choice in my mind is a SUV PHEV for long distance vacations and short trips, and then a BEV sedan for everything else.

[Morris Minor]

But PHEVs have their own problems. On short hauls their engines don't warm up properly, making it difficult to get cabin heat, plus the maintenance headaches that go with rarely getting up to working temperature.

[giant_mtb]

But PHEVs have their own problems. On short hauls their engines don't warm up properly, making it difficult to get cabin heat, plus the maintenance headaches that go with rarely getting up to working temperature.

Do PHEV's have to run the engine in order to run the air conditioning pump? That'd be an easy way to ensure the engine stays on and get heat going.

[Laconian]

I thought that PHEVs know how to use the engines to prevent fuel destabilization etc.

[Morris Minor]

I'm basing my purely unscientific ignorant point of view on a review Harry Metcalfe did last year on an BMW X5 45e, &  the comment on the engine being stone-cold a lot of the time. But rewatching it he was on EV-only rather than "Adaptive" so maybe there is some wizardry that goes on. I'm still dubious about PHEVs.

https://youtu.be/RtpF4M6UDDE?t=742

[r0tor]

Hybrids have existed for a decade without issues related to child engine starts... All a phev adds is a bigger battery for more e range

[Morris Minor]

Hybrids have existed for a decade without issues related to child engine starts... All a phev adds is a bigger battery for more e range

It's the plugin variety that's the problem. In real-world use they don't help much with CO2 because in real-world use ordinary people tend not to bother plugging them in.

[r0tor]

It's the plugin variety that's the problem. In real-world use they don't help much with CO2 because in real-world use ordinary people tend not to bother plugging them in.

So then (the good ones) just act like a hybrid

And why would anyone spend the significant extra amount of money on a phev if they didn't intend to plug it in... Oh right, the internet takes some "study" based off of free employee company cars as gospel

[Morris Minor]

So then (the good ones) just act like a hybrid

And why would anyone spend the significant extra amount of money on a phev if they didn't intend to plug it in... Oh right, the internet takes some "study" based off of free employee company cars as gospel

Huh?

[giant_mtb]

Huh?

+1

[CaminoRacer]

I agree with Rotor, why would you pay thousands of extra dollars for a PHEV compared to a regular hybrid and then not plug it in?

[Morris Minor]

I agree with Rotor, why would you pay thousands of extra dollars for a PHEV compared to a regular hybrid and then not plug it in?

Because of perverse incentives put in place by governments; it's your neighbor, not you, paying the extra. This is why automakers lobbied so hard to have PHEVs as part of the Inflation Act; they can build compliance cars with traditional gas tanks & ICE engines that are in their wheelhouse (& in the actual world out there lug around the dead weight of unused battery packs & electric traction gear.)

https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/PHEV-FS-EN-sept2020-0.pdf

[veeman]

I agree with Rotor, why would you pay thousands of extra dollars for a PHEV compared to a regular hybrid and then not plug it in?

Because of perverse incentives put in place by governments. it's not you paying the extra. This is why automakers lobbied so hard to have PHEVs as part of the Inflation Act; they can build compliance cars with traditional gas tanks & ICE engines that are in their wheelhouse (& in the actual world out there lug around the dead weight of unused battery packs & electric traction gear.)

Also some people need to have that "green cred".  Seriously.  One of the spouses will insist on getting a plug-in EV and the other spouse who will end up using the car more will know they're never going to plug it in but will acquiesce to keep up the charade. 

[r0tor]

The whole "phev owners don't plug in their cars" story origin is a study (I think in Britain if I remember correctly) based off of the usage of company cars given to employees...

Not exactly a representative sample of people who actually buy their cars.  It's the equivalent of saying that based off of how people beat the piss out of rentals, all car owners beat the piss out of their cars on a daily basis.

[Morris Minor]

The whole "phev owners don't plug in their cars" story origin is a study (I think in Britain if I remember correctly) based off of the usage of company cars given to employees...

Not exactly a representative sample of people who actually buy their cars.  It's the equivalent of saying that based off of how people beat the piss out of rentals, all car owners beat the piss out of their cars on a daily basis.

China
Germany
Norway
US & Canada
Netherlands
Sample size was about 105,000 of which about 11,000 were company cars.

PHEVs are greenwashing.

[MrH]

  PHEV are a great stop gap to full EVs.  It fits a huge portion of people's driving patterns to run solely on EV power.  Significantly less resources because the battery is so much smaller (and we're going to be raw material constrained to go completely to EVs for quite awhile), and completely kills any range anxiety or charging infrastructure problem.

You guys think this is some sort of wasteful half-step, but the world isn't ready at all for full scale EV adoption.

[Morris Minor]

I just think they're a bit like steam cars in the early 1900s. Familiarity with the old tech that turned out to be a dead end.
For a family that can charge at home, I'd aim to have two EVs: those would cover 95% of your needs. For the remaining 5%... the range-anxiety-inducing long trips, I'd rent.

Anyway - good thread. 

[MrH]

Just because it's a dead end 50 years from now, there's no reason why they shouldn't be pursued now.

Of course, we're having this debate as Germany cracks the 1000 euros/MWh level, European utilities are calling for bailouts as they lose 100MM Euro/day.  VW is stocking windshields as they prepare for glass factories to shut down due to energy prices.  We're very, very far from this EV utopia that's being pushed.

[CaminoRacer]

VW is stocking windshields as they prepare for glass factories to shut down due to energy prices. 

I thought you were gonna say they were preparing for massive riots and broken windows

[MrH]

I thought you were gonna say they were preparing for massive riots and broken windows

  Who knows at this point.  Germany is in a world of hurt and it's only going to get worse.  They're entire economy is based on industrial exports.  When energy is too expensive to run plants and heat homes, what do they do?

[CaminoRacer]

  Who knows at this point.  Germany is in a world of hurt and it's only going to get worse.  They're entire economy is based on industrial exports.  When energy is too expensive to run plants and heat homes, what do they do?

Demand the return of the Sudetenland?

[Morris Minor]

Demand the return of the Sudetenland?

A joke there but many a true word is spoken in jest. This kind of situation precipitates moves like that.

[veeman]

For a family that can charge at home, I'd aim to have two EVs: those would cover 95% of your needs. For the remaining 5%... the range-anxiety-inducing long trips, I'd rent.

I don't know how wise that would be.  My brother in law who has a Tesla Model S (on his third battery but that's another story) wants to replace his wife's Acura RDX with another EV.  He's hook, line, and sinker bought into the EV cult IMHO. 

It's not that unusual anymore to be without power for a few days or even a week in my town.  A home generator can't power an electric car.  Rental prices are also atrocious these days  and they often, more commonly now, don't allow long distance interstate travel. 

Personally I'm too reliant on my car and drive too much to take those chances only having EV vehicles. Also if something like a Katrina hurricane or other natural disaster happens (forest fire, earthquake, etc) I need to have a car that runs on liquid fuel to get out of Dodge.

[CaminoRacer]

But the EV can power your home when the power goes out

In natural disasters it's sometimes beneficial to have an EV. Then you're not stuck in long gas lines, and gas pumps don't work without power either. Just depends on the specifics of each situation, from what I've seen.

I'd love to have a second EV so both of us can commute in an EV. But I'm waiting until we have level 2 charging at home to better support two cars. My current level 1 charger set up works great for 1 car, but the circuit won't support 2 cars charging at the same time.

[AutobahnSHO]

Yeah I think the sweet spot for EVs is two car garage, two (+) car family.

As far as PHEVs, it does make a lot of sense rather than a full EV- but only if one DOES plug it in every night. I know a guy who got the Wrangler "4XE" and only uses about 3gallons per week to commute. Any ICE car would be 10-15.

[veeman]

But the EV can power your home when the power goes out

In natural disasters it's sometimes beneficial to have an EV. Then you're not stuck in long gas lines, and gas pumps don't work without power either. Just depends on the specifics of each situation, from what I've seen.

I'd love to have a second EV so both of us can commute in an EV. But I'm waiting until we have level 2 charging at home to better support two cars. My current level 1 charger set up works great for 1 car, but the circuit won't support 2 cars charging at the same time.

A Jerry Can doesn't need electricity.     In a Mad Max apocalypse liquid fuel is liquid gold.  It's not that much of a stretch.  Those without working private cars during Hurricane Katrina lived in the New Orleans Superdome. 

[r0tor]

I have a gas generator for my house and it's always a pain in the ass because...

A) I don't like storing large amounts of gas in my garage
B) Gas goes bad rather quickly
C) The gas station doesn't work without power... and they are almost all too damn cheap to install their own generators