2006 Lexus SC: Facelift

[ifcar]

Which would be the reason I originally compared convertible to convertible.  

[TBR]

Which would be the reason I originally compared convertible to convertible.

This is why I don't argue with you too much .  When comparing two cars against each other a body style isn't considered a feature. So when comparing a 645ci to a SC430 you don't have to get the convertible version of the 6-series to get a car equipped comparably to the SC430.

[ifcar]

Which would be the reason I originally compared convertible to convertible.

This is why I don't argue with you too much .  When comparing two cars against each other a body style isn't considered a feature. So when comparing a 645ci to a SC430 you don't have to get the convertible version of the 6-series to get a car equipped comparably to the SC430.

There are two ways to look at it:

1. The Lexus SC is a convertible. To compare prices, compare convertible vs. convertible. So that would be SC vs. 645Ci convertible.

2. The Lexus SC is a coupe. To compare prices, compare coupe vs. coupe, SC vs. 645Ci coupe. The Lexus coupe has a standard retractable roof, the BMW does not offer it. Thus, the Lexus has more features.

[TBR]

Which would be the reason I originally compared convertible to convertible.

This is why I don't argue with you too much .  When comparing two cars against each other a body style isn't considered a feature. So when comparing a 645ci to a SC430 you don't have to get the convertible version of the 6-series to get a car equipped comparably to the SC430.

There are two ways to look at it:

1. The Lexus SC is a convertible. To compare prices, compare convertible vs. convertible. So that would be SC vs. 645Ci convertible.

2. The Lexus SC is a coupe. To compare prices, compare coupe vs. coupe, SC vs. 645Ci coupe. The Lexus coupe has a standard retractable roof, the BMW does not offer it. Thus, the Lexus has more features.

A CD player is a feature. Power seats are a feature. A navigation system is a feature. But a retractable hard top isn't a feature. A feature doesn't make a vehicle's body style different nor does it require drastic modifications.

[ifcar]

Which would be the reason I originally compared convertible to convertible.

This is why I don't argue with you too much .  When comparing two cars against each other a body style isn't considered a feature. So when comparing a 645ci to a SC430 you don't have to get the convertible version of the 6-series to get a car equipped comparably to the SC430.

There are two ways to look at it:

1. The Lexus SC is a convertible. To compare prices, compare convertible vs. convertible. So that would be SC vs. 645Ci convertible.

2. The Lexus SC is a coupe. To compare prices, compare coupe vs. coupe, SC vs. 645Ci coupe. The Lexus coupe has a standard retractable roof, the BMW does not offer it. Thus, the Lexus has more features.

A CD player is a feature. Power seats are a feature. A navigation system is a feature. But a retractable hard top isn't a feature. A feature doesn't make a vehicle's body style different nor does it require drastic modifications.

Then you would agree that the SC is a convertible, not a coupe with a retractable hardtop?

[Raza]

I see now.  But ultimately, buyers will cross shop the SC and 645ci coupe.

Never disagreed with that. But do you not agree that a 645Ci is some $12K more than a comparably-equipped SC?

We differ on our views of 'comparably equipped.'  Some buyers may consider them comparably equipped simply because of the amazing top the Lexus has.

I don't consider the 645Ci coupe comparably-equipped to the SC, it doesn't have an option where you can put the roof into the trunk for open-top motoring. You have to fork over an additional $7k for that.

I can't tell you how many people I see in SCs driving around on gorgeous days with the top up.  Plenty of people buy them as coupes.  It is comparably equipped because of the purposes of the cars--also, it makes the buyer think about whether or not they truly want or need a convertible.  

[ifcar]

I see now.  But ultimately, buyers will cross shop the SC and 645ci coupe.

Never disagreed with that. But do you not agree that a 645Ci is some $12K more than a comparably-equipped SC?

We differ on our views of 'comparably equipped.'  Some buyers may consider them comparably equipped simply because of the amazing top the Lexus has.

I don't consider the 645Ci coupe comparably-equipped to the SC, it doesn't have an option where you can put the roof into the trunk for open-top motoring. You have to fork over an additional $7k for that.

I can't tell you how many people I see in SCs driving around on gorgeous days with the top up.  Plenty of people buy them as coupes.  It is comparably equipped because of the purposes of the cars--also, it makes the buyer think about whether or not they truly want or need a convertible.

Plenty of people by 4WD vehicles only to drive on the road, does that mean that a 2WD SUV should be compared in price to a 4WD SUV?

[BMWDave]

I see now.? But ultimately, buyers will cross shop the SC and 645ci coupe.

Never disagreed with that. But do you not agree that a 645Ci is some $12K more than a comparably-equipped SC?

We differ on our views of 'comparably equipped.'  Some buyers may consider them comparably equipped simply because of the amazing top the Lexus has.

I don't consider the 645Ci coupe comparably-equipped to the SC, it doesn't have an option where you can put the roof into the trunk for open-top motoring. You have to fork over an additional $7k for that.

I can't tell you how many people I see in SCs driving around on gorgeous days with the top up.  Plenty of people buy them as coupes.  It is comparably equipped because of the purposes of the cars--also, it makes the buyer think about whether or not they truly want or need a convertible.

Plenty of people by 4WD vehicles only to drive on the road, does that mean that a 2WD SUV should be compared in price to a 4WD SUV?

4WD is a feature, to use TBR's wording.  It doesnt alter the body style or anything like that.  

[ifcar]

I see now.  But ultimately, buyers will cross shop the SC and 645ci coupe.

Never disagreed with that. But do you not agree that a 645Ci is some $12K more than a comparably-equipped SC?

We differ on our views of 'comparably equipped.'  Some buyers may consider them comparably equipped simply because of the amazing top the Lexus has.

I don't consider the 645Ci coupe comparably-equipped to the SC, it doesn't have an option where you can put the roof into the trunk for open-top motoring. You have to fork over an additional $7k for that.

I can't tell you how many people I see in SCs driving around on gorgeous days with the top up.  Plenty of people buy them as coupes.  It is comparably equipped because of the purposes of the cars--also, it makes the buyer think about whether or not they truly want or need a convertible.

Plenty of people by 4WD vehicles only to drive on the road, does that mean that a 2WD SUV should be compared in price to a 4WD SUV?

4WD is a feature, to use TBR's wording.  It doesnt alter the body style or anything like that.

It fits the drastic modifications part of his definition though.  

[TBR]

Which would be the reason I originally compared convertible to convertible.

This is why I don't argue with you too much .  When comparing two cars against each other a body style isn't considered a feature. So when comparing a 645ci to a SC430 you don't have to get the convertible version of the 6-series to get a car equipped comparably to the SC430.

There are two ways to look at it:

1. The Lexus SC is a convertible. To compare prices, compare convertible vs. convertible. So that would be SC vs. 645Ci convertible.

2. The Lexus SC is a coupe. To compare prices, compare coupe vs. coupe, SC vs. 645Ci coupe. The Lexus coupe has a standard retractable roof, the BMW does not offer it. Thus, the Lexus has more features.

A CD player is a feature. Power seats are a feature. A navigation system is a feature. But a retractable hard top isn't a feature. A feature doesn't make a vehicle's body style different nor does it require drastic modifications.

Then you would agree that the SC is a convertible, not a coupe with a retractable hardtop?

You just don't get it! Yes the SC is a convertible (I have never said that it wasn't), however, a comparably equipped 645ci could either be the coupe or the convertible because a retractable top isn't a feature.

[ifcar]

Which would be the reason I originally compared convertible to convertible.

This is why I don't argue with you too much .  When comparing two cars against each other a body style isn't considered a feature. So when comparing a 645ci to a SC430 you don't have to get the convertible version of the 6-series to get a car equipped comparably to the SC430.

There are two ways to look at it:

1. The Lexus SC is a convertible. To compare prices, compare convertible vs. convertible. So that would be SC vs. 645Ci convertible.

2. The Lexus SC is a coupe. To compare prices, compare coupe vs. coupe, SC vs. 645Ci coupe. The Lexus coupe has a standard retractable roof, the BMW does not offer it. Thus, the Lexus has more features.

A CD player is a feature. Power seats are a feature. A navigation system is a feature. But a retractable hard top isn't a feature. A feature doesn't make a vehicle's body style different nor does it require drastic modifications.

Then you would agree that the SC is a convertible, not a coupe with a retractable hardtop?

You just don't get it! Yes the SC is a convertible (I have never said that it wasn't), however, a comparably equipped 645ci could either be the coupe or the convertible because a retractable top isn't a feature.

It simply isn't fair to give the SC an expensive part (I don't know what else you'd want to call it) that you will not allow compensation for either in price (by comparing it to a convertible) or in feature contetn (by considering the roof a feature). In any comparison, a convertible makes less sense than a coupe, so you have to account somehow for what people like about convertibles: an open top.  

[mazda6er]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I love being a turtle!

That's a little throwback for the younger fellows on the board.

:D  Love that.

[Raza]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I love being a turtle!

That's a little throwback for the younger fellows on the board.

:D  Love that.

I'm glad someone noticed.  You're probably about my age, eh?  Good times, the late 80s.

[mazda6er]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.? I love being a turtle!

That's a little throwback for the younger fellows on the board.

:D  Love that.

I'm glad someone noticed.  You're probably about my age, eh?  Good times, the late 80s.

Indeed they were. I'm only 18 though, I suspect you're a few years older than that.

[Raza]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I love being a turtle!

That's a little throwback for the younger fellows on the board.

:D  Love that.

I'm glad someone noticed.  You're probably about my age, eh?  Good times, the late 80s.

Indeed they were. I'm only 18 though, I suspect you're a few years older than that.

I am older than you, but less than you think, methinks.  

[BMWDave]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.? I love being a turtle!

That's a little throwback for the younger fellows on the board.

:D  Love that.

I'm glad someone noticed.  You're probably about my age, eh?  Good times, the late 80s.

Indeed they were. I'm only 18 though, I suspect you're a few years older than that.

I am older than you, but less than you think, methinks.

Raza is 19.

[giant_mtb]

Is it just me or does it have a sort of Benz rip-off look to it?  <_<  

[TBR]

Is it just me or does it have a sort of Benz rip-off look to it?  <_<

Not a bit. Benzes actually look good, the SC430 just looks like a blob of metal on 4 rubber donuts.

[BMWDave]

Is it just me or does it have a sort of Benz rip-off look to it?  <_<

Not a bit. Benzes actually look good, the SC430 just looks like a blob of metal on 4 rubber donuts.

I wouldnt go that far  

[ifcar]

Even I'm willing to go that far. The SC has its merits, but its styling certainly isn't one of them.  

[Raza]

Is it just me or does it have a sort of Benz rip-off look to it?  <_<

As had plenty of Lexuses (Lexi?) since the dawn of time.  Remember the old LS400?  Hell, the new LS430?

[BMWDave]

Is it just me or does it have a sort of Benz rip-off look to it?  <_<

As had plenty of Lexuses (Lexi?) since the dawn of time.  Remember the old LS400?  Hell, the new LS430?

Well, what Benz do you think it is ripped off?  I can see the LS430 was ripped off, but I dont see which Benz this design was taken from.

[giant_mtb]

Is it just me or does it have a sort of Benz rip-off look to it?  <_<

As had plenty of Lexuses (Lexi?) since the dawn of time.  Remember the old LS400?  Hell, the new LS430?

I have no idea...I'm not a big fan of Lexus...the only cars I know are the SC430 and some other thing or SUV or somethin like that.  :P  Hell, I didn't even know that Lexus was a division of Toyota till not too long ago...that's how much I follow them.  B)  

[Raza]

Is it just me or does it have a sort of Benz rip-off look to it?  <_<

As had plenty of Lexuses (Lexi?) since the dawn of time.  Remember the old LS400?  Hell, the new LS430?

Well, what Benz do you think it is ripped off?  I can see the LS430 was ripped off, but I dont see which Benz this design was taken from.

It looks like a shorter, more blobular interpretation of the W220 S class.  I didn't say it first, though, one magazine said the styling was akin to a fake Rolex.  If my numbers are correct, the W126 was the main "inspiration" for the original LS400, as well as the last generation Acura 3.5RL, though of course, on a 9/10ths scale.  

Also, on the LS430, the grille moves from the old rectangular grille to a trapezoidal one just like the Mercedes grilles on newer models.

[Raghavan]

Meh, looks the same.