2006 Lexus SC: Facelift

[ifcar]

http://www.caranddriver.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=65123

[Fire It Up]

Well, it looks better. But I cant tell whats changesd.

[TurboDan]

Nice facelift on the part of Lexus.  I'd love to see what the red model looks like, though.

[Colonel Cadillac]

It looks the same.  

[BMWDave]

Nice facelift on the part of Lexus.  I'd love to see what the red model looks like, though.

Definitely.  I think it looks nicer now.  

[Raza]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I love being a turtle!

That's a little throwback for the younger fellows on the board.  But truly, if I wasn't into sporty driving, the SC430 would be on my list of must-haves.  But as it is, the 645Ci offers a better driving experience, similar price, and a 6 speed manual.  

[ifcar]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I love being a turtle!

That's a little throwback for the younger fellows on the board.  But truly, if I wasn't into sporty driving, the SC430 would be on my list of must-haves.  But as it is, the 645Ci offers a better driving experience, similar price, and a 6 speed manual.

I believe the 6-Series is some $12,000+ more than the SC.  

[Raza]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I love being a turtle!

That's a little throwback for the younger fellows on the board.  But truly, if I wasn't into sporty driving, the SC430 would be on my list of must-haves.  But as it is, the 645Ci offers a better driving experience, similar price, and a 6 speed manual.

I believe the 6-Series is some $12,000+ more than the SC.

Not realistically.  Lexus has a very deceptive pricing scheme.  Sure, the base price may only be 55K, but you've got Options Package A and Options Package B, both of which cost over 6000 dollars or something.  They do that with every car--that's how they can advertise a very low MSRP.

EDIT:  The SC430 is 64K and the 645Ci start a bit under 70K.  And it seems they got rid of the old pricing system.  Bravo Lex.

[ifcar]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I love being a turtle!

That's a little throwback for the younger fellows on the board.  But truly, if I wasn't into sporty driving, the SC430 would be on my list of must-haves.  But as it is, the 645Ci offers a better driving experience, similar price, and a 6 speed manual.

I believe the 6-Series is some $12,000+ more than the SC.

Not realistically.  Lexus has a very deceptive pricing scheme.  Sure, the base price may only be 55K, but you've got Options Package A and Options Package B, both of which cost over 6000 dollars or something.  They do that with every car--that's how they can advertise a very low MSRP.

Actually, the SC has NO option packages.

Lexus SC430 w/no options: $63,575
BMW 645Ci convertible w/no options: $76,900
Lexus SC430 w/every option: $67,115
BMW 645Ci convertible w/every option (including three options packages): $87,795

If the price difference between a fully loaded SC and a no-options 6-Series is itself almost $10K, it's really a bit of a stretch to say that they are "similarly priced".

[BMWDave]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.? I love being a turtle!

That's a little throwback for the younger fellows on the board.? But truly, if I wasn't into sporty driving, the SC430 would be on my list of must-haves.? But as it is, the 645Ci offers a better driving experience, similar price, and a 6 speed manual.

I believe the 6-Series is some $12,000+ more than the SC.

Not realistically.  Lexus has a very deceptive pricing scheme.  Sure, the base price may only be 55K, but you've got Options Package A and Options Package B, both of which cost over 6000 dollars or something.  They do that with every car--that's how they can advertise a very low MSRP.

Actually, the SC has NO option packages.

Lexus SC430 w/no options: $63,575
BMW 645Ci convertible w/no options: $76,900
Lexus SC430 w/every option: $67,115
BMW 645Ci convertible w/every option (including three options packages): $87,795

If the price difference between a fully loaded SC and a no-options 6-Series is itself almost $10K, it's really a bit of a stretch to say that they are "similarly priced".

You could always get a Coupe like a real enthusiast and the price of the 6er declines like 5K.  That brings you closer to SC levels.  And hell, I'd take the sporty driving over the Lexus' amazing top anyday.

[ifcar]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I love being a turtle!

That's a little throwback for the younger fellows on the board.  But truly, if I wasn't into sporty driving, the SC430 would be on my list of must-haves.  But as it is, the 645Ci offers a better driving experience, similar price, and a 6 speed manual.

I believe the 6-Series is some $12,000+ more than the SC.

Not realistically.  Lexus has a very deceptive pricing scheme.  Sure, the base price may only be 55K, but you've got Options Package A and Options Package B, both of which cost over 6000 dollars or something.  They do that with every car--that's how they can advertise a very low MSRP.

Actually, the SC has NO option packages.

Lexus SC430 w/no options: $63,575
BMW 645Ci convertible w/no options: $76,900
Lexus SC430 w/every option: $67,115
BMW 645Ci convertible w/every option (including three options packages): $87,795

If the price difference between a fully loaded SC and a no-options 6-Series is itself almost $10K, it's really a bit of a stretch to say that they are "similarly priced".

You could always get a Coupe like a real enthusiast and the price of the 6er declines like 5K.  That brings you closer to SC levels.  And hell, I'd take the sporty driving over the Lexus' amazing top anyday.

Not really fair to compare coupe to convertible though.  

[BMWDave]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.? I love being a turtle!

That's a little throwback for the younger fellows on the board.? But truly, if I wasn't into sporty driving, the SC430 would be on my list of must-haves.? But as it is, the 645Ci offers a better driving experience, similar price, and a 6 speed manual.

I believe the 6-Series is some $12,000+ more than the SC.

Not realistically.  Lexus has a very deceptive pricing scheme.  Sure, the base price may only be 55K, but you've got Options Package A and Options Package B, both of which cost over 6000 dollars or something.  They do that with every car--that's how they can advertise a very low MSRP.

Actually, the SC has NO option packages.

Lexus SC430 w/no options: $63,575
BMW 645Ci convertible w/no options: $76,900
Lexus SC430 w/every option: $67,115
BMW 645Ci convertible w/every option (including three options packages): $87,795

If the price difference between a fully loaded SC and a no-options 6-Series is itself almost $10K, it's really a bit of a stretch to say that they are "similarly priced".

You could always get a Coupe like a real enthusiast and the price of the 6er declines like 5K.  That brings you closer to SC levels.  And hell, I'd take the sporty driving over the Lexus' amazing top anyday.

Not really fair to compare coupe to convertible though.

The Lexus' top could be judged by some to compete with a Coupe.

[ifcar]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I love being a turtle!

That's a little throwback for the younger fellows on the board.  But truly, if I wasn't into sporty driving, the SC430 would be on my list of must-haves.  But as it is, the 645Ci offers a better driving experience, similar price, and a 6 speed manual.

I believe the 6-Series is some $12,000+ more than the SC.

Not realistically.  Lexus has a very deceptive pricing scheme.  Sure, the base price may only be 55K, but you've got Options Package A and Options Package B, both of which cost over 6000 dollars or something.  They do that with every car--that's how they can advertise a very low MSRP.

Actually, the SC has NO option packages.

Lexus SC430 w/no options: $63,575
BMW 645Ci convertible w/no options: $76,900
Lexus SC430 w/every option: $67,115
BMW 645Ci convertible w/every option (including three options packages): $87,795

If the price difference between a fully loaded SC and a no-options 6-Series is itself almost $10K, it's really a bit of a stretch to say that they are "similarly priced".

You could always get a Coupe like a real enthusiast and the price of the 6er declines like 5K.  That brings you closer to SC levels.  And hell, I'd take the sporty driving over the Lexus' amazing top anyday.

Not really fair to compare coupe to convertible though.

The Lexus' top could be judged by some to compete with a Coupe.

The Lexus's top can become like the BMW's, but the opposite is not true.  

[BMWDave]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.? I love being a turtle!

That's a little throwback for the younger fellows on the board.? But truly, if I wasn't into sporty driving, the SC430 would be on my list of must-haves.? But as it is, the 645Ci offers a better driving experience, similar price, and a 6 speed manual.

I believe the 6-Series is some $12,000+ more than the SC.

Not realistically.  Lexus has a very deceptive pricing scheme.  Sure, the base price may only be 55K, but you've got Options Package A and Options Package B, both of which cost over 6000 dollars or something.  They do that with every car--that's how they can advertise a very low MSRP.

Actually, the SC has NO option packages.

Lexus SC430 w/no options: $63,575
BMW 645Ci convertible w/no options: $76,900
Lexus SC430 w/every option: $67,115
BMW 645Ci convertible w/every option (including three options packages): $87,795

If the price difference between a fully loaded SC and a no-options 6-Series is itself almost $10K, it's really a bit of a stretch to say that they are "similarly priced".

You could always get a Coupe like a real enthusiast and the price of the 6er declines like 5K.  That brings you closer to SC levels.  And hell, I'd take the sporty driving over the Lexus' amazing top anyday.

Not really fair to compare coupe to convertible though.

The Lexus' top could be judged by some to compete with a Coupe.

The Lexus's top can become like the BMW's, but the opposite is not true.

I understand that.  I also think its completely understandable that people would cross shop a BMW 6er Coupe with the Lexus SC, simply because of that hard top.

[Laconian]

I notice the differences. It's a little more creased, less puffy. I sort of liked the old shape, very sturdy and classy looking. <_<

I dinked with the convertible hardtop at the Seattle car show, much to the amazement of a small crowd of older folks. Put it down, then popped it off again. They were absolutely stunned. After I got out, some gorgeous Lexus fembot strutted over in her high heels and promptly cut the power to the roof by setting some sort of manual override. Stupid, since just seeing that roof in action probably got Lexus at least one sale among the spectators.

The lure of the gadget is a strong one indeed.  

[ifcar]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I love being a turtle!

That's a little throwback for the younger fellows on the board.  But truly, if I wasn't into sporty driving, the SC430 would be on my list of must-haves.  But as it is, the 645Ci offers a better driving experience, similar price, and a 6 speed manual.

I believe the 6-Series is some $12,000+ more than the SC.

Not realistically.  Lexus has a very deceptive pricing scheme.  Sure, the base price may only be 55K, but you've got Options Package A and Options Package B, both of which cost over 6000 dollars or something.  They do that with every car--that's how they can advertise a very low MSRP.

Actually, the SC has NO option packages.

Lexus SC430 w/no options: $63,575
BMW 645Ci convertible w/no options: $76,900
Lexus SC430 w/every option: $67,115
BMW 645Ci convertible w/every option (including three options packages): $87,795

If the price difference between a fully loaded SC and a no-options 6-Series is itself almost $10K, it's really a bit of a stretch to say that they are "similarly priced".

You could always get a Coupe like a real enthusiast and the price of the 6er declines like 5K.  That brings you closer to SC levels.  And hell, I'd take the sporty driving over the Lexus' amazing top anyday.

Not really fair to compare coupe to convertible though.

The Lexus' top could be judged by some to compete with a Coupe.

The Lexus's top can become like the BMW's, but the opposite is not true.

I understand that.  I also think its completely understandable that people would cross shop a BMW 6er Coupe with the Lexus SC, simply because of that hard top.

They may very well be cross-shopped, but in a pricing comparison you want to go by the comparably-equipped versions, which would be convertible vs. convertible.  

[BMWDave]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.? I love being a turtle!

That's a little throwback for the younger fellows on the board.? But truly, if I wasn't into sporty driving, the SC430 would be on my list of must-haves.? But as it is, the 645Ci offers a better driving experience, similar price, and a 6 speed manual.

I believe the 6-Series is some $12,000+ more than the SC.

Not realistically.  Lexus has a very deceptive pricing scheme.  Sure, the base price may only be 55K, but you've got Options Package A and Options Package B, both of which cost over 6000 dollars or something.  They do that with every car--that's how they can advertise a very low MSRP.

Actually, the SC has NO option packages.

Lexus SC430 w/no options: $63,575
BMW 645Ci convertible w/no options: $76,900
Lexus SC430 w/every option: $67,115
BMW 645Ci convertible w/every option (including three options packages): $87,795

If the price difference between a fully loaded SC and a no-options 6-Series is itself almost $10K, it's really a bit of a stretch to say that they are "similarly priced".

You could always get a Coupe like a real enthusiast and the price of the 6er declines like 5K.  That brings you closer to SC levels.  And hell, I'd take the sporty driving over the Lexus' amazing top anyday.

Not really fair to compare coupe to convertible though.

The Lexus' top could be judged by some to compete with a Coupe.

The Lexus's top can become like the BMW's, but the opposite is not true.

I understand that.  I also think its completely understandable that people would cross shop a BMW 6er Coupe with the Lexus SC, simply because of that hard top.

They may very well be cross-shopped, but in a pricing comparison you want to go by the comparably-equipped versions, which would be convertible vs. convertible.

Not necessarily.  My point is that the hardtop on the Lexus makes it as appealable as a Coupe to some people, and thus would easily cross shop it with the BMW coupe.

[ifcar]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I love being a turtle!

That's a little throwback for the younger fellows on the board.  But truly, if I wasn't into sporty driving, the SC430 would be on my list of must-haves.  But as it is, the 645Ci offers a better driving experience, similar price, and a 6 speed manual.

I believe the 6-Series is some $12,000+ more than the SC.

Not realistically.  Lexus has a very deceptive pricing scheme.  Sure, the base price may only be 55K, but you've got Options Package A and Options Package B, both of which cost over 6000 dollars or something.  They do that with every car--that's how they can advertise a very low MSRP.

Actually, the SC has NO option packages.

Lexus SC430 w/no options: $63,575
BMW 645Ci convertible w/no options: $76,900
Lexus SC430 w/every option: $67,115
BMW 645Ci convertible w/every option (including three options packages): $87,795

If the price difference between a fully loaded SC and a no-options 6-Series is itself almost $10K, it's really a bit of a stretch to say that they are "similarly priced".

You could always get a Coupe like a real enthusiast and the price of the 6er declines like 5K.  That brings you closer to SC levels.  And hell, I'd take the sporty driving over the Lexus' amazing top anyday.

Not really fair to compare coupe to convertible though.

The Lexus' top could be judged by some to compete with a Coupe.

The Lexus's top can become like the BMW's, but the opposite is not true.

I understand that.  I also think its completely understandable that people would cross shop a BMW 6er Coupe with the Lexus SC, simply because of that hard top.

They may very well be cross-shopped, but in a pricing comparison you want to go by the comparably-equipped versions, which would be convertible vs. convertible.

Not necessarily.  My point is that the hardtop on the Lexus makes it as appealable as a Coupe to some people, and thus would easily cross shop it with the BMW coupe.

I recognize your point, but for a price comparison you want comparably-equipped versions. And to equip the 645Ci to the level of the SC430, you need to add a certain $7,000 option.  

[BMWDave]

the 6er starts at 69,900 for the coupe.  The Sc starts at 64,225.  Thats about 5K in options, not 7K.  They are not that different that they wont be cross shopped.

[ifcar]

I said that the BMW would need a $7,000 option to be comparably-equipped to the SC (I was referring to the convertible top).

[BMWDave]

I see now.  But ultimately, buyers will cross shop the SC and 645ci coupe.

[ifcar]

I see now.  But ultimately, buyers will cross shop the SC and 645ci coupe.

Never disagreed with that. But do you not agree that a 645Ci is some $12K more than a comparably-equipped SC?

[BMWDave]

I see now.  But ultimately, buyers will cross shop the SC and 645ci coupe.

Never disagreed with that. But do you not agree that a 645Ci is some $12K more than a comparably-equipped SC?

We differ on our views of 'comparably equipped.'  Some buyers may consider them comparably equipped simply because of the amazing top the Lexus has.

[ifcar]

I see now.  But ultimately, buyers will cross shop the SC and 645ci coupe.

Never disagreed with that. But do you not agree that a 645Ci is some $12K more than a comparably-equipped SC?

We differ on our views of 'comparably equipped.'  Some buyers may consider them comparably equipped simply because of the amazing top the Lexus has.

I don't consider the 645Ci coupe comparably-equipped to the SC, it doesn't have an option where you can put the roof into the trunk for open-top motoring. You have to fork over an additional $7k for that.

[BMWDave]

I see now.? But ultimately, buyers will cross shop the SC and 645ci coupe.

Never disagreed with that. But do you not agree that a 645Ci is some $12K more than a comparably-equipped SC?

We differ on our views of 'comparably equipped.'  Some buyers may consider them comparably equipped simply because of the amazing top the Lexus has.

I don't consider the 645Ci coupe comparably-equipped to the SC, it doesn't have an option where you can put the roof into the trunk for open-top motoring. You have to fork over an additional $7k for that.

What I'm saying is that some buyers will consider them comparably equipped simply because of the metal roof on the SC.  Basically, some buyers wont buy the SC because it is a convertible, but rather for other reasons, simply because they like it better than the other coupes in the market.

[ifcar]

I see now.  But ultimately, buyers will cross shop the SC and 645ci coupe.

Never disagreed with that. But do you not agree that a 645Ci is some $12K more than a comparably-equipped SC?

We differ on our views of 'comparably equipped.'  Some buyers may consider them comparably equipped simply because of the amazing top the Lexus has.

I don't consider the 645Ci coupe comparably-equipped to the SC, it doesn't have an option where you can put the roof into the trunk for open-top motoring. You have to fork over an additional $7k for that.

What I'm saying is that some buyers will consider them comparably equipped simply because of the metal roof on the SC.  Basically, some buyers wont buy the SC because it is a convertible, but rather for other reasons, simply because they like it better than the other coupes in the market.

Right, you can treat it either as a coupe or as a convertible. And I'm treating it as a convertible, and comparing it to the BMW 6-Series convertible, which costs $12K more.

[BMWDave]

I see now.? But ultimately, buyers will cross shop the SC and 645ci coupe.

Never disagreed with that. But do you not agree that a 645Ci is some $12K more than a comparably-equipped SC?

We differ on our views of 'comparably equipped.'  Some buyers may consider them comparably equipped simply because of the amazing top the Lexus has.

I don't consider the 645Ci coupe comparably-equipped to the SC, it doesn't have an option where you can put the roof into the trunk for open-top motoring. You have to fork over an additional $7k for that.

What I'm saying is that some buyers will consider them comparably equipped simply because of the metal roof on the SC.  Basically, some buyers wont buy the SC because it is a convertible, but rather for other reasons, simply because they like it better than the other coupes in the market.

Right, you can treat it either as a coupe or as a convertible. And I'm treating it as a convertible, and comparing it to the BMW 6-Series convertible, which costs $12K more.

To each his own  

[TBR]

I see now.  But ultimately, buyers will cross shop the SC and 645ci coupe.

Never disagreed with that. But do you not agree that a 645Ci is some $12K more than a comparably-equipped SC?

We differ on our views of 'comparably equipped.'  Some buyers may consider them comparably equipped simply because of the amazing top the Lexus has.

I don't consider the 645Ci coupe comparably-equipped to the SC, it doesn't have an option where you can put the roof into the trunk for open-top motoring. You have to fork over an additional $7k for that.

What I'm saying is that some buyers will consider them comparably equipped simply because of the metal roof on the SC.  Basically, some buyers wont buy the SC because it is a convertible, but rather for other reasons, simply because they like it better than the other coupes in the market.

Right, you can treat it either as a coupe or as a convertible. And I'm treating it as a convertible, and comparing it to the BMW 6-Series convertible, which costs $12K more.

But if you treat them as coupes than the 645 doesn't have to have that $7000 option to be comparably equipped to the SC430. You treat them as convertible if you want to, but you don't have to force your logic on everybody that disagrees.

[ifcar]

I see now.  But ultimately, buyers will cross shop the SC and 645ci coupe.

Never disagreed with that. But do you not agree that a 645Ci is some $12K more than a comparably-equipped SC?

We differ on our views of 'comparably equipped.'  Some buyers may consider them comparably equipped simply because of the amazing top the Lexus has.

I don't consider the 645Ci coupe comparably-equipped to the SC, it doesn't have an option where you can put the roof into the trunk for open-top motoring. You have to fork over an additional $7k for that.

What I'm saying is that some buyers will consider them comparably equipped simply because of the metal roof on the SC.  Basically, some buyers wont buy the SC because it is a convertible, but rather for other reasons, simply because they like it better than the other coupes in the market.

Right, you can treat it either as a coupe or as a convertible. And I'm treating it as a convertible, and comparing it to the BMW 6-Series convertible, which costs $12K more.

But if you treat them as coupes than the 645 doesn't have to have that $7000 option to be comparably equipped to the SC430. You treat them as convertible if you want to, but you don't have to force your logic on everybody that disagrees.

Even as a coupe it's less expensive, and as a coupe it's a coupe with a retractable roof, so it has more features than the 6.  

[TBR]

I see now.  But ultimately, buyers will cross shop the SC and 645ci coupe.

Never disagreed with that. But do you not agree that a 645Ci is some $12K more than a comparably-equipped SC?

We differ on our views of 'comparably equipped.'  Some buyers may consider them comparably equipped simply because of the amazing top the Lexus has.

I don't consider the 645Ci coupe comparably-equipped to the SC, it doesn't have an option where you can put the roof into the trunk for open-top motoring. You have to fork over an additional $7k for that.

What I'm saying is that some buyers will consider them comparably equipped simply because of the metal roof on the SC.  Basically, some buyers wont buy the SC because it is a convertible, but rather for other reasons, simply because they like it better than the other coupes in the market.

Right, you can treat it either as a coupe or as a convertible. And I'm treating it as a convertible, and comparing it to the BMW 6-Series convertible, which costs $12K more.

But if you treat them as coupes than the 645 doesn't have to have that $7000 option to be comparably equipped to the SC430. You treat them as convertible if you want to, but you don't have to force your logic on everybody that disagrees.

Even as a coupe it's less expensive, and as a coupe it's a coupe with a retractable roof, so it has more features than the 6.

I don't think a different body style can be considered a feature.