2005 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Actually the subaru puts out some pretty good low end torque.

5.3 V-8
303 hp @ 5600 rpm
323 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm

2.5L Turbo
300hp @ 6000 rpm
300lb-ft @ 4000 rpm

[SJ_GTI]

Actually the subaru puts out some pretty good low end torque.

5.3 V-8
303 hp @ 5600 rpm
323 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm

2.5L Turbo
300hp @ 6000 rpm
300lb-ft @ 4000 rpm

Do you have a dyno to look at?

I wonder how much torque the subaru has at 1500-3500 vs the V8?

I think that is the definition of low end-torque. What you posted is the peak. While the V8 peaks w/ 323 @ 4400, it probably has well over 200 lb-ft right off idle, and probably close to 300 lb-ft by the time it gets up to 2000 rpms.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Thankfully both these motors are geared to take advantage of their power delivery.

I'm sure the subie makes very little power below 2500rpm's, until the turbo reaches full spool, then i'm sure the power delivery is pretty flat.

Anyway the only reason i posted those numbers was becuase they are pretty close, though very different motors.

[BMWDave]

Thankfully both these motors are geared to take advantage of their power delivery.

I'm sure the subie makes very little power below 2500rpm's, until the turbo reaches full spool, then i'm sure the power delivery is pretty flat.

Anyway the only reason i posted those numbers was becuase they are pretty close, though very different motors.

Very different in everything...although it would be hard to fit any GM small block in a econobox, and Subaru solves the problem brilliantly.

[Raghavan]

Thankfully both these motors are geared to take advantage of their power delivery.

I'm sure the subie makes very little power below 2500rpm's, until the turbo reaches full spool, then i'm sure the power delivery is pretty flat.

Anyway the only reason i posted those numbers was becuase they are pretty close, though very different motors.

Very different in everything...although it would be hard to fit any GM small block in a econobox, and Subaru solves the problem brilliantly.

i don't think so... with the intercooler and turbo, it'll be almost as large if not larger than the 5.3l. remember, displacement doesn't equal engine size...

[giant_mtb]

Another point is that the Subie's engine isn't really meant to make a ton of low end torque...it's supposed to like the higher RPM's.  A big V-8 is more powerful in the bottom end because that's usually what it's meant for...for better efficiency on the street.  The Subie's 2.5L is a completely different idea from the GXP's 5.3L...they're meant for different ways of acheiving what they do...  Comparing the two is sort of like comparing the taste of chocolate to the taste of vanilla...they're both very good at what they do. (I dunno?)

[Raghavan]

Another point is that the Subie's engine isn't really meant to make a ton of low end torque...it's supposed to like the higher RPM's.  A big V-8 is more powerful in the bottom end because that's usually what it's meant for...for better efficiency on the street.  The Subie's 2.5L is a completely different idea from the GXP's 5.3L...they're meant for different ways of acheiving what they do...  Comparing the two is sort of like comparing the taste of chocolate to the taste of vanilla...they're both very good at what they do. (I dunno?)

the 2.5l sucks. <_<  

[giant_mtb]

Another point is that the Subie's engine isn't really meant to make a ton of low end torque...it's supposed to like the higher RPM's.  A big V-8 is more powerful in the bottom end because that's usually what it's meant for...for better efficiency on the street.  The Subie's 2.5L is a completely different idea from the GXP's 5.3L...they're meant for different ways of acheiving what they do...  Comparing the two is sort of like comparing the taste of chocolate to the taste of vanilla...they're both very good at what they do. (I dunno?)

the 2.5l sucks. <_<

:o  :angry:  

[Raghavan]

Another point is that the Subie's engine isn't really meant to make a ton of low end torque...it's supposed to like the higher RPM's.  A big V-8 is more powerful in the bottom end because that's usually what it's meant for...for better efficiency on the street.  The Subie's 2.5L is a completely different idea from the GXP's 5.3L...they're meant for different ways of acheiving what they do...  Comparing the two is sort of like comparing the taste of chocolate to the taste of vanilla...they're both very good at what they do. (I dunno?)

the 2.5l sucks. <_<

:o  :angry:

it's not 2.0l! rokon.gif  

[giant_mtb]

Another point is that the Subie's engine isn't really meant to make a ton of low end torque...it's supposed to like the higher RPM's.  A big V-8 is more powerful in the bottom end because that's usually what it's meant for...for better efficiency on the street.  The Subie's 2.5L is a completely different idea from the GXP's 5.3L...they're meant for different ways of acheiving what they do...  Comparing the two is sort of like comparing the taste of chocolate to the taste of vanilla...they're both very good at what they do. (I dunno?)

the 2.5l sucks. <_<

:o  :angry:

it's not 2.0l! rokon.gif

I don't get it...  The WRX Sedan (227 HP) has a 2.0L...if that helps?  :P  

[Raghavan]

Another point is that the Subie's engine isn't really meant to make a ton of low end torque...it's supposed to like the higher RPM's.  A big V-8 is more powerful in the bottom end because that's usually what it's meant for...for better efficiency on the street.  The Subie's 2.5L is a completely different idea from the GXP's 5.3L...they're meant for different ways of acheiving what they do...  Comparing the two is sort of like comparing the taste of chocolate to the taste of vanilla...they're both very good at what they do. (I dunno?)

the 2.5l sucks. <_<

:o  :angry:

it's not 2.0l! rokon.gif

I don't get it...  The WRX Sedan (227 HP) has a 2.0L...if that helps?  :P

but the WRC specifies that you need a 2.0l, but for production, subaru made it 2.5l. :angry:  

[SJ_GTI]

Another point is that the Subie's engine isn't really meant to make a ton of low end torque...it's supposed to like the higher RPM's.? A big V-8 is more powerful in the bottom end because that's usually what it's meant for...for better efficiency on the street.? The Subie's 2.5L is a completely different idea from the GXP's 5.3L...they're meant for different ways of acheiving what they do...? Comparing the two is sort of like comparing the taste of chocolate to the taste of vanilla...they're both very good at what they do. (I dunno?)

the 2.5l sucks. <_<

:o  :angry:

it's not 2.0l! rokon.gif

I don't get it...  The WRX Sedan (227 HP) has a 2.0L...if that helps?  :P

but the WRC specifies that you need a 2.0l, but for production, subaru made it 2.5l. :angry:

This was to, ahem, give it better low RPM drivability.

And FBC I know the subaru is geared to take advantage of its powerband, my point was that it is, in fact, quite a limited powerband by design (in order to maximize output).

The V8 isn'y very HP "efficient" for its displacement, but its power is all over the place. Its fuel mileage is reasonable given the class, so as far as I am concerned its a great engine for this application. GM needs to stick that engine in the new H3.    

[giant_mtb]

Another point is that the Subie's engine isn't really meant to make a ton of low end torque...it's supposed to like the higher RPM's.  A big V-8 is more powerful in the bottom end because that's usually what it's meant for...for better efficiency on the street.  The Subie's 2.5L is a completely different idea from the GXP's 5.3L...they're meant for different ways of acheiving what they do...  Comparing the two is sort of like comparing the taste of chocolate to the taste of vanilla...they're both very good at what they do. (I dunno?)

the 2.5l sucks. <_<

:o  :angry:

it's not 2.0l! rokon.gif

I don't get it...  The WRX Sedan (227 HP) has a 2.0L...if that helps?  :P

but the WRC specifies that you need a 2.0l, but for production, subaru made it 2.5l. :angry:

Better driveability..like Mtl said.  

[Raghavan]

Another point is that the Subie's engine isn't really meant to make a ton of low end torque...it's supposed to like the higher RPM's.  A big V-8 is more powerful in the bottom end because that's usually what it's meant for...for better efficiency on the street.  The Subie's 2.5L is a completely different idea from the GXP's 5.3L...they're meant for different ways of acheiving what they do...  Comparing the two is sort of like comparing the taste of chocolate to the taste of vanilla...they're both very good at what they do. (I dunno?)

the 2.5l sucks. <_<

:o  :angry:

it's not 2.0l! rokon.gif

I don't get it...  The WRX Sedan (227 HP) has a 2.0L...if that helps?  :P

but the WRC specifies that you need a 2.0l, but for production, subaru made it 2.5l. :angry:

Better driveability..like Mtl said.

mitsu can get by on 2.0l. subaru sucks. :angry:  

[giant_mtb]

Another point is that the Subie's engine isn't really meant to make a ton of low end torque...it's supposed to like the higher RPM's.  A big V-8 is more powerful in the bottom end because that's usually what it's meant for...for better efficiency on the street.  The Subie's 2.5L is a completely different idea from the GXP's 5.3L...they're meant for different ways of acheiving what they do...  Comparing the two is sort of like comparing the taste of chocolate to the taste of vanilla...they're both very good at what they do. (I dunno?)

the 2.5l sucks. <_<

:o  :angry:

it's not 2.0l! rokon.gif

I don't get it...  The WRX Sedan (227 HP) has a 2.0L...if that helps?  :P

but the WRC specifies that you need a 2.0l, but for production, subaru made it 2.5l. :angry:

Better driveability..like Mtl said.

mitsu can get by on 2.0l. subaru sucks. :angry:

Mitsu also has to come out with a "special" MR version of its Evo in order to truely beat the STi as well...and I'm sure they could give the Evo 300 HP if they really wanted to...  

[Raghavan]

Another point is that the Subie's engine isn't really meant to make a ton of low end torque...it's supposed to like the higher RPM's.  A big V-8 is more powerful in the bottom end because that's usually what it's meant for...for better efficiency on the street.  The Subie's 2.5L is a completely different idea from the GXP's 5.3L...they're meant for different ways of acheiving what they do...  Comparing the two is sort of like comparing the taste of chocolate to the taste of vanilla...they're both very good at what they do. (I dunno?)

the 2.5l sucks. <_<

:o  :angry:

it's not 2.0l! rokon.gif

I don't get it...  The WRX Sedan (227 HP) has a 2.0L...if that helps?  :P

but the WRC specifies that you need a 2.0l, but for production, subaru made it 2.5l. :angry:

Better driveability..like Mtl said.

mitsu can get by on 2.0l. subaru sucks. :angry:

Mitsu also has to come out with a "special" MR version of its Evo in order to truely beat the STi as well...and I'm sure they could give the Evo 300 HP if they really wanted to...

the evo already comes with 400... that thing is the fastest for door on the planet. 0-60 in 3.5 seconds i think...