Motorcycle engine/transmission, car rear end

[southdiver1]

OK, I plan on using a GSXR1300 engine/trans combo to power a Miata rear end.
Problem is, how to I get the chain drive from the Suzuki transmission to spin the yoke on the Miata pumpkin?

[etypeJohn]

Where do you plan to mount the engine?  Front or rear? 

Why not turn the engine to a transverse position and situate what would be the rear sproket on a motorcycle on the drive shaft of the car? 

Or find a driveshaft BMW motorcycle engine.

[southdiver1]

Where do you plan to mount the engine?? Front or rear??

Why not turn the engine to a transverse position and situate what would be the rear sproket on a motorcycle on the drive shaft of the car??

Or find a driveshaft BMW motorcycle engine.

My plan was to mount the engine in the front of the car. The reason for the Suzuki is that I already have the engine. I was thinking about trying to sell it and getting a VMAX (shaft drive) setup but, the inline 4 is a nice high revving engine and I have seen setups with turbos putting out a very stable 300 HP.
When you say put it in transverse, do you mean sideways so that the "front" of the engine would be facing one of the rear fenders?
I am still not sure how to get the final drive of the transmission to mate up to the yoke of the rear end....

[heelntoe]

i know a guy who is building a FSAE car with an R6 engine, i'll ask him what he did. but in his car, the engine is in the back.

[etypeJohn]

Turn it 90 degrees so that the front of the engine faces the fender.   Extend the drive shaft into the engine bay,  The drive shaft would need to be mounted in bearings and secured to the car's unibody. 
Replace the front yoke of the driveshaft with a sproket.  Run the chain from the engine to the driveshaft sproket.

There may be other, better ways, but this immediately comes to mind.

[southdiver1]

i know a guy who is building a FSAE car with an R6 engine, i'll ask him what he did. but in his car, the engine is in the back.

I am not 100% opposed to a rear setup but, the only rear engine car I have ever owned was an old VW... I have HEARD that high HP 911's have a hard time at the track due to a heavy rear end and it sliding out a lot easier but, with an engine that is just over 100 lbs, I suppose I could put a bigger fuel tank in the front of the car and offset the weight....

Building a completly custom car is gonna be.... fun?

[etypeJohn]

I am not 100% opposed to a rear setup but, the only rear engine car I have ever owned was an old VW... I have HEARD that high HP 911's have a hard time at the track due to a heavy rear end and it sliding out a lot easier but, with an engine that is just over 100 lbs, I suppose I could put a bigger fuel tank in the front of the car and offset the weight....

Building a completly custom car is gonna be.... fun?

make it mid engine.  Have what would be the rear sproket in the diff in place of the u-joint yoke.

[heelntoe]

yep, i think that's what my friend did to the R6 engine.
are you using any particular blueprint?

[southdiver1]

yep, i think that's what my friend did to the R6 engine.
are you using any particular blueprint?

Not really.. The basic car will be a LOCOST. It is based off the Lotus 7. Other then that, it will be 100% custom. I am going to use a Miata rear end and front end so that I can use Miata brakes and suspension. Other then that....

[The Pirate]

Would you be able to remove the chain gear and somehow put a yoke in it's spot?  Then you could postion the engine longitudinally, and run a driveshaft like normal.

[heelntoe]

like the ones in the c/d article?
i have a bit of a plan myself, buy it will take a couple of years to materialize.

it will be a lot easier if you use a mid-engine configuration and it should handle better, too.

[heelntoe]

Would you be able to remove the chain gear and somehow put a yoke in it's spot?  Then you could postion the engine longitudinally, and run a driveshaft like normal.

welding directly to the sproket?

[The Pirate]

welding directly to the sproket?

Well, remove the sprocket, and somehow fasten the yoke onto that output shaft.

[southdiver1]

like the ones in the c/d article?
i have a bit of a plan myself, buy it will take a couple of years to materialize.

it will be a lot easier if you use a mid-engine configuration and it should handle better, too.

Yes, it is based off of the C&D article. Specificly, the guy who used the Honda 900 engine. In the article, he was unable to make a good terst run due to suspension failure but, he was using a setup from a Meukur XT4a or something like that.
I plan on using straight Miata suspension, brakes, and probably steering components for a few reasons
1: they are popular and parts are easy to get
2: They are pretty much performance ready

I had never thought of using the motorcycle engine for anything other then a streetfighter application before reading that article and it sounds like a great idea since I already have the engine....

[heelntoe]

the guy that had a suspension failure had a turbo miata engine, no?

http://rivera.fotomojo.us/g/MX7

[heelntoe]

jamal's method might also work, without altering the LOCOST plans.

the 900 honda was also mounted longitudinally, with the cylinders facing sideways.

[MX793]

The only problem I could see with running the engine transversely (as it would be in the bike) and then mounting a motorcycle shaft-drive output to the transmission would be that the driveshaft would be on the left side of the engine.  This could cause some difficulties unless you plan on making the Locost RHD.  Turning the engine 90 degrees and running it longitudinally would allow you to mount a U joint directly to the transmission output and you could run a driveshaft from there.  This would offset the driveshaft slightly to the right, unless you shifted the engine a bit to the left to get a straighter shot with the driveshaft.  Or you could run some sort of chain drive from the output sprocket to a sprocket mounted to a driveshaft.

Mid engine is also a possibility (and might be easier in some respects), but I'm pretty sure all of the locost plans out there are for front engine cars, since the locost is basically a take on the Lotus Super 7 design, so you'd either have to design your own chassis/frame or find plans somewhere.

[southdiver1]

The only problem I could see with running the engine transversely (as it would be in the bike) and then mounting a motorcycle shaft-drive output to the transmission would be that the driveshaft would be on the left side of the engine.? This could cause some difficulties unless you plan on making the Locost RHD.? Turning the engine 90 degrees and running it longitudinally would allow you to mount a U joint directly to the transmission output and you could run a driveshaft from there.? This would offset the driveshaft slightly to the right, unless you shifted the engine a bit to the left to get a straighter shot with the driveshaft.? Or you could run some sort of chain drive from the output sprocket to a sprocket mounted to a driveshaft.

Mid engine is also a possibility (and might be easier in some respects), but I'm pretty sure all of the locost plans out there are for front engine cars, since the locost is basically a take on the Lotus Super 7 design, so you'd either have to design your own chassis/frame or find plans somewhere.

Making it a right hand drive I think would be super cool.
Thanks for all of the input guys. I think that the best way would be to go with a sideways mount up front and make it a RHD. I was thinking about a hand clutch on the shifter....
Wow... so many possibilities....

Oh, anyone have ideas on a reverse?

[The Pirate]

Oh, anyone have ideas on a reverse?

Do you have kids?  Make 'em work.

[S204STi]

Maybe you can find a gearbox of the same make with a reverse gear, such as from a touring bike or something.  The GSX is a Suzuki, right?  They may make another gearbox that could bolt onto your engine.

[heelntoe]

electric reverse a la honda goldwing?

[FoMoJo]

Not really.. The basic car will be a LOCOST. It is based off the Lotus 7. Other then that, it will be 100% custom. I am going to use a Miata rear end and front end so that I can use Miata brakes and suspension. Other then that....

Do you need to get a LOCOST 'kit' for your project or are you building from scratch?

[southdiver1]

Do you need to get a LOCOST 'kit' for your project or are you building from scratch?

It will be built from scratch but, I will be using the LOCOST plans for the frame and suspension. I think that will be easier/safer then trying to figure that part out by myself.
The body will have the same basic design from the rear of the car up to the windshield. From there, instead of a front end, seperate good, and seperate fenders, the entire front end will be al lone peice similar to that of Chris's Jag. It will tilt foward for easy access to the engine, radiator, and turbo.
Headlights will be fixed units swiped from a pair of Honda Ruckus Scooters and bolted onto the front bumper.
I have not figured out the taillights yet but, they will be very small LED type lights probably something like what you would see on those minitrucks.

[heelntoe]

good luck with it, when do you plan on starting the build?

do you still have the taillights and indicators of the busa?

[southdiver1]

good luck with it, when do you plan on starting the build?

do you still have the taillights and indicators of the busa?

Hopefully I will start on it this spring.
The tail light broke when the bike fell and the signals are flush mounts. Actually, I am not even sure if I still have the signals as I may have given them away.....

[Michael Estorol]

run, don't walk, to www.locostbuilders.co.uk

I used to hang out there when I was contemplating a project bike-engined 2CV...

[Raza]

run, don't walk, to www.locostbuilders.co.uk

I used to hang out there when I was contemplating a project bike-engined 2CV...

Why did you stop?

[Michael Estorol]

Why did you stop?

The more I looked into it, the more I realised that the original designers knew what they were doing!

A high-power 2CV is a great idea; but going much above 50bhp-ish is very problematic unless you radically change the car, at which point it loses its character and (in my opinion) loses its appeal.  I really didn't want a 2CV body dropped onto more 'modern' running gear. The most successful 'modcons' (as the deuche community calls them) are via mild turbocharging of the original engine, or swaps to the 1200cc flat-4 from the GS.  The latter is just about feasible (using scarce Ami Super parts) but propshafts are a weakness. And after a lot of work you might just be able to beat a SmartForTwo away from the lights!
Better to stick with high-compression pistons, carefully adjusted carburetion and (shock-horror) conversion to electronic ignition.  Drive it flat-out everywhere, and bask in your own smugness, knowing that you're having a hell of a lot more fun than all the sensory-deprived folks overtaking you.

   

[Raza]

The more I looked into it, the more I realised that the original designers knew what they were doing!

A high-power 2CV is a great idea; but going much above 50bhp-ish is very problematic unless you radically change the car, at which point it loses its character and (in my opinion) loses its appeal.  I really didn't want a 2CV body dropped onto more 'modern' running gear. The most successful 'modcons' (as the deuche community calls them) are via mild turbocharging of the original engine, or swaps to the 1200cc flat-4 from the GS.  The latter is just about feasible (using scarce Ami Super parts) but propshafts are a weakness. And after a lot of work you might just be able to beat a SmartForTwo away from the lights!
Better to stick with high-compression pistons, carefully adjusted carburetion and (shock-horror) conversion to electronic ignition.  Drive it flat-out everywhere, and bask in your own smugness, knowing that you're having a hell of a lot more fun than all the sensory-deprived folks overtaking you.

   

Works for me.  You, my friend, just illustrated what's wrong with modern cars!

[93JC]

(as the deuche community calls them)? ?

He he he, 'deuche'. How quaint.

On a somewhat unrelated note, even though I speak French it took me damned near forever to figure out why they call the DS "the goddess".

Wasn't until I was reading a French article about it that I figured it out, after the author went to the trouble of typing out 'd?esse'...