Directional tires bad in deep snow?

280Z Turbo · December 02, 2006, 01:22:42 PM

I have 205/50/16 Kelly Evo Z's on my Focus which are supposed to be M+S rated, but I'm a bit skeptical. It got stuck in a few inches of snow yesterday and all it would do is spin the front wheels. If I put it in reverse, it felt like I could drive up a snow bank and gripped really well, but going forward is a problem. I wonder if it's because of the V pattern and narrow gaps.

Even my 2WD Ranger would have done better.

It doesn't look like a very good snow tread. A good ice tread or rain tread, sure, but not a snow tread. On the other hand, I wonder if perhaps this is just the nature of FWD.

I haven't decided yet if snow tires are worth it.

heelntoe · December 02, 2006, 01:24:49 PM

usually, assymetricals are better than directional all seasons.

JYODER240 · December 02, 2006, 01:31:33 PM

My snow tires are directional.

The Pirate · December 02, 2006, 02:19:52 PM

Welcome to the world of lightweight FWD in snow.

SaltyDog · December 02, 2006, 03:54:13 PM

There's not much you can do to battle physics. Light cars are terrible in snow.

S204STi · December 02, 2006, 05:56:02 PM

There is a difference between all-season directionals and snow directionals. The directional snows have a tread pattern that is still nearly perpendicular to the sidewalls allowing the treads to grip deep into the snow. that along with large gaps between tread blocks and rather tall treads allows the tire to dig deep and get traction. Directional all-seasons are great for moving water away from the contact patch, but not so good in snow.

AutobahnSHO · December 02, 2006, 07:27:14 PM

Those look like great water tires but awful snow tires.

Light FWD does NOT always mean bad snow car. When I bought my 83 Civic hatch from my dad (1996,) I was engaged to be married and my fiance lived a few sets of MOUNTAINS away. (100 miles of Wyoming-Utah.)
I drove to see her all winter and sometimes just barely beating the road closures.

BUT my dad had just put new all-seasons on, and they had an excellent snow grip. I drove pretty dumb back then, blowing past people in the passing lane when it was 3-6" deep in snow, since the plows had only hit the right lane.. And lived to tell about it.

280Z Turbo · December 02, 2006, 07:45:54 PM

My Ranger only weighs about 100 lbs more and has even less of that over the drive wheels.

It still wouldn't have gotten stuck like that.

saxonyron · December 02, 2006, 08:43:05 PM

You need snow tires for sure - the M+S rating isn't worth much with that tread pattern. I had Dunlops shaped like that on my A6 when I first got it 3 years ago, and they were awful in the snow. I put on yoko Avid all seasons and the car was instantly transformed. You're right - that unidirectional tread is great for moving water out, but useless on snow.

280Z Turbo · December 03, 2006, 12:30:39 AM

Nope. Not spending hundreds of dollars on new wheels. I can do without.

MX793 · December 03, 2006, 12:42:31 AM

Beyond the pattern itself (which doesn't look like it would be all that good in the snow anyway), the tread doesn't look all that deep. How much tread do you have left? 5/32?

MX793 · December 03, 2006, 12:55:11 AM

Quote from: The Pirate on December 02, 2006, 02:19:52 PM
Welcome to the world of lightweight FWD in snow.

Try a light RWD (with an open diff and all season tires worn nearly to the wear bars) and a light FWD seems like it has mountain goat levels of traction. Maybe I've just had decent all season tires on my cars, but I've yet to get stuck in the snow (knocks on wood). Almost got my 240SX stuck once while playing in a parking lot with 3-4 inches of fresh snow (with patches of ice beneath, which was what caused me problems), but she managed to claw her way out.

JYODER240 · December 03, 2006, 09:53:38 AM

I drive through a winter with these on and i was fine.

Champ · December 03, 2006, 11:11:17 AM

How light is light? I use snow's because I don't like skimping out on the super important piece of a car. In winter time it just saves so much hassle. Never have to worry about getting stuck, stopping, cornering etc.

They proved to be pretty excellent in the last rally I did, snow over gravel roads.

280Z Turbo · December 03, 2006, 12:29:42 PM

Quote from: MX793 on December 03, 2006, 12:42:31 AM
Beyond the pattern itself (which doesn't look like it would be all that good in the snow anyway), the tread doesn't look all that deep. How much tread do you have left? 5/32?

They're like new. One of them is new, in fact. They're deeper than they look, trust me. And last time I checked, my Focus weighs between 2500 and 2600 lbs.

I looked into the prices of snow tires and it just isn't happening. If I can find some cheap 14" Escort rims in the junkyard I might be able to afford it, but a tirerack package is just too much money.

Like I said, my 4x2 Ranger always did alright despite the weight distribution and cheap worn down old tires.

280Z Turbo · December 03, 2006, 12:33:54 PM

Quote from: JYoDeR240 on December 03, 2006, 09:53:38 AM
I drive through a winter with these on and i was fine.

ES100s, eh?

I hear those are pretty good in the rain (or at least better than the AVS Intermediates that they replaced). I don't know about snow though!

I know of one member on another message board I visit who is driving on Falken Azensis autocross tires this winter!

JYODER240 · December 03, 2006, 06:02:22 PM

Quote from: 280Z Turbo on December 03, 2006, 12:33:54 PM
ES100s, eh?

I hear those are pretty good in the rain (or at least better than the AVS Intermediates that they replaced). I don't know about snow though!

I know of one member on another message board I visit who is driving on Falken Azensis autocross tires this winter!

They're good tires for the money. Not as much grip as some high-end michilens, pirellis, or bridgestones but much less expensive. They had really stiff sidewalls so the ride was rough but they had razor-sharp turn-in. They weren't good in the snow but i never got stuck even in as much as 6-8inches of snow.

Pancor · December 03, 2006, 07:02:11 PM

The fact that those are unidirectional tires having nothing to do with the fact that they are shitty in the snow. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the reason they suck is because they aren't snow tires.... Most of the best snow tires are unidirectional, and the best (in the snow) all-season tire you can buy right now also happens to be unidirectional.

And Jyoder, where do you live, Florida? I got caught in the snow with my ES-100's on once, and they were shit, as I expected them to be!

JYODER240 · December 03, 2006, 07:04:45 PM

Quote from: Pancor on December 03, 2006, 07:02:11 PM
The fact that those are unidirectional tires having nothing to do with the fact that they are shitty in the snow.? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the reason they suck is because they aren't snow tires....? Most of the best snow tires are unidirectional, and the best (in the snow) all-season tire you can buy right now also happens to be unidirectional.? ?

And Jyoder, where do you live, Florida?? I got caught in the snow with my ES-100's on once, and they were shit, as I expected them to be!

O-H, I-O.

The Pirate · December 03, 2006, 09:46:22 PM

Quote from: Pancor on December 03, 2006, 07:02:11 PM
The fact that those are unidirectional tires having nothing to do with the fact that they are shitty in the snow. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the reason they suck is because they aren't snow tires.... Most of the best snow tires are unidirectional, and the best (in the snow) all-season tire you can buy right now also happens to be unidirectional.

And Jyoder, where do you live, Florida? I got caught in the snow with my ES-100's on once, and they were shit, as I expected them to be!

What is the best-in-snow all season tire?

Pancor · December 04, 2006, 06:38:08 PM

Quote from: The Pirate on December 03, 2006, 09:46:22 PM

What is the best-in-snow all season tire?

Goodyear Triple-Tred, bar-none

S204STi · December 04, 2006, 07:02:17 PM

I'll tell you what suck in the snow: Dunlop Sport SP2

I finally found a snowy road I couldn't climb in my Subaru, and it was because of these. If I had dropped money on snow tires it wouldn't be a problem of course...

giant_mtb · December 04, 2006, 07:07:57 PM

The more perpendicular the treads, the better grip, generally. Those forward-vee patterns aren't that great for accelerating in the slippery 'cause they don't really "bite" at the ground...

giant_mtb · December 04, 2006, 07:08:35 PM

Quote from: Pancor on December 04, 2006, 06:38:08 PM
Goodyear Triple-Tred, bar-none

I've heard good things about them, but they also seem too good to be true...do you have personal experience with them?

Pancor · December 06, 2006, 08:30:53 PM

Quote from: giant_mtb on December 04, 2006, 07:08:35 PM
I've heard good things about them, but they also seem too good to be true...do you have personal experience with them?

I haven't subjected them to the Pancor backroad-rally test, but I have driven on them in snow and I give them my approval.

Danish · December 06, 2006, 11:28:41 PM

Quote from: JYODER240 on December 03, 2006, 07:04:45 PM
O-H, I-O.

Damn, if you had just said O-H I would have finished it for ya!

JYODER240 · December 07, 2006, 08:16:51 AM

Quote from: Danish on December 06, 2006, 11:28:41 PM
Damn, if you had just said O-H I would have finished it for ya!

Are you from Ohio too?

Danish · December 07, 2006, 10:36:41 AM

Nah, I'm from California

JYODER240 · December 07, 2006, 10:51:11 AM

Buckeyes fan?

Danish · December 07, 2006, 01:39:32 PM

Sort of.....

I don't really have a favorite college football team, instead I have a set I hate. My sister went to USC so I am a fan of them more than anything. I also like UCLA. I watch college football more for the players than for the teams.

College basketball though I love the Bruins and Duke is fun to watch.