If you do preventative maintainence consistlenty, how long will a car last?

[AutobahnSHO]

Shut-up...

Actually, my car has no major problems, just a small coolant leak somewhere (it has never even come close to overheating) and something is wrong with the ABS. I am going to call a mechanic Tuesday to set-up an appointment for sometime the week after.

Sorry man-
Of course some problems are more dangerous than othes.  If you aren't watching your coolant carefully, uhoh!  Also, if it is leaking through the headgasket or something like that, major problems!   

ABS is over-rated, just put a piece of electrical tape over the dashboard light. 
(j/k, but I had to for a while..)

[BartsSVO]

My 95 Ranger (2.3L 4 cyl/5 speed manual) will turn over 169,000 miles tomorrow and is still running remarkably well for the hell its been though.

The only part failure that I've encountered was the starter that gave out about a month after I bought the truck. It had about 130,000 miles on it then. I have replaced the motor mounts and radiator, but all of that was due to an accident I was involved in back in June. Toss in a used bumper to replace the one that was bent up and it is back to its same old shabby looking self. It is finally getting to the point where I'll have to change the factory clutch, although I was hoping it would hold out for another 10,000 miles or so, since I'm planning on putting it up for sale in January.

Aside from that, I've just done routine (5-6k) oil changes and swapped in a new set of rear brake shoes and drums. Basically stuff that's designed to be changed or wear out over time anyway. Given the length of time Ford used this engine, its probably safe to say they had most of the bugs worked out of it by then. With continued maintenance I wouldn't be surprised if the truck keeps running far past 250k. So much for "unreliable" American vehicles. Most domestic built cars that I've seen that have had long term reliability issues have usually been maintained like crap at some point in their life, UNLESS they were automatics! That's another discussion for another day though (but it is why I refuse to drive automatic transmission equipped vehicles). But the same could be said about imports as well. Any car that runs well after 100k largely has more to do with how the owner(s) of the vehicle cared for the car and less so with how it was originally built, IMHO.

[Michael Estorol]

For modern vehicles, it'll be time rather than mileage that's the killer; mainly due to their reliance on electronics.  They will be victims to the accelerating pace of progress.

Call me old-fashioned, but...

You just aren't going to be able to overhaul the ecu on an engine management system in the same way that you can strip down an old carburetor now,  and I expect replacement parts will be fairly unobtainable.  My car is more than 30 years old, but it's simple (like me) --  I know exactly how everything works and I can fix just about anything that might go wrong.  Also, apart from a couple of RHD-specific items, plus glazing, crankcase, suspension arms etc, I can still buy EVERY part, brand new (albeit pattern).  Unless it's legislated off the road, there's no reason why my car can't go on for ever.  That's reliability in my opinion.  Of course a new Camry will reach 200k miles with a lot less TLC, but if some tiny-but-vital solid-state component does go wrong in, say, the winter of 2035, the chances are that your laptop won't have the correct diagnostic interface to even begin to find the fault.

[VTEC_Inside]

My Accord is about to turn over 389,000kms (243,000miles) and I really haven't done anything to it but oil and coolant changes.

My only real current issue with it is that somewhere in that vacuum controlled mess of an induction system there is something not right. Nothing critcial but frustrating to troubleshoot.

Oh and it needs rear brakes too... :)

[Madman]

What's preventative maintenance? Pretty much any car can go forever if it's taken care of and if engines, transmissions, and everything else are replaced or rebuilt enough. There's a Volvo 1800 out there with over two million miles, but most everything has been replaced over the years (a few times).

That would be Irv Gordon's 1966 Volvo 1800S, currently at 2.4+ million miles and counting.
But, everything has NOT been replaced.  The engine, gearbox and rear differential are all original to the car.  He had the engine rebuilt once, at a mere 680,000 miles.  He thought that it must need to have something done to it by this point, but when his mechanic took it apart, everything was perfect.  He put the engine back together and it hasn't been out of the car since!

I saw the car myself a few years ago and was amazed at it's condition.  Irv is a true maintenance fanatic.

As for my own Volvo, my 1990 740 Turbo only has 229,000 miles and has been the most reliable car I have ever owned.  No major engine or transmission work, just normal wear-and-tear items like brakes, suspension and bulbs.  The only major headache with this car is the fragile air-con system.  IT SUCKS!  Apart from that , it's been a great car.


Madman of the People

[TBR]

Sorry man-
Of course some problems are more dangerous than othes.  If you aren't watching your coolant carefully, uhoh!  Also, if it is leaking through the headgasket or something like that, major problems!   

ABS is over-rated, just put a piece of electrical tape over the dashboard light. 
(j/k, but I had to for a while..)

I checked it again today, just a little low, I am not really worried about it too much. The only thing wrong with the engine is that it tends to "over-run" a bit when you press in the clutch. I imagine that the throttle linkage is just sticking a little.

[MX793]

The only thing wrong with the engine is that it tends to "over-run" a bit when you press in the clutch. I imagine that the throttle linkage is just sticking a little.

I test drove a used Focus a couple years ago that did that.  When you lifted the throttle and pushed in the clutch to shift, you could count off 3 seconds before the RPM would drop from where it was when you let off the gas.  Made rev matching a real bitch as well as forced you to choose between a smooth, very slow shift or a jerky, normal paced shift.  I'd heard some of the magazines complain about similar problems with other Fords and apparently it has something to do with the emission controls equipment.

[J86]

That would be Irv Gordon's 1966 Volvo 1800S, currently at 2.4+ million miles and counting.
But, everything has NOT been replaced.? The engine, gearbox and rear differential are all original to the car.? He had the engine rebuilt once, at a mere 680,000 miles.? He thought that it must need to have something done to it by this point, but when his mechanic took it apart, everything was perfect.? He put the engine back together and it hasn't been out of the car since!

I saw the car myself a few years ago and was amazed at it's condition.? Irv is a true maintenance fanatic.

As for my own Volvo, my 1990 740 Turbo only has 229,000 miles and has been the most reliable car I have ever owned.? No major engine or transmission work, just normal wear-and-tear items like brakes, suspension and bulbs.? The only major headache with this car is the fragile air-con system.? IT SUCKS!? Apart from that , it's been a great car.


Madman of the People

I don't know what it is about Volvo airco, but it is god awful.  Our '94 940 was that way, and so was my friend's '92 (I think) 740 Turbo (both wagons). 

Cool car though!  I really want a 240 DL wagon- my uncle had a very cool modified one out in Cali.

[crv16]

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=538098

This Saab story is one in a million
Traveling salesman from Glendale rides trusty vehicle to extraordinary milestone


Not long after his divorce, Peter Gilbert treated himself to a new sports car - a Saab 900 SPG, which stands for Special Performance Group.

Seventeen years and more than 1 million miles later, Gilbert donated his car to the Wisconsin Automotive Museum. The car survived eight deer collisions, including one that punched a hole in the radiator, before it was parked for safekeeping at the museum in Hartford.

"I couldn't kill that many deer with a gun," said Gilbert, a financial services salesman from Glendale.

Saab, the Swedish car-maker that's a division of General Motors, verified the high mileage on Gilbert's car last summer. Almost everything on the vehicle was original equipment, except for the front hoods and other parts that were replaced after the car-deer collisions.

Gilbert was meticulous about vehicle maintenance, including regular oil changes with premium, synthetic oil. He replaced the car's transmission at about 200,000 miles, but beyond that the engine was hardly touched.

"I knew someone who put 2.5 million miles on a Volvo, but the engine was rebuilt several times," Gilbert said.

Originally from Britain, Gilbert fell in love with Saabs when the cars were winning European road rallies in the 1960s. His trusty 900 SPG was no slouch, either, having once clocked 135 mph at the Road America race track in Elkhart Lake.

"I was taking the lead in a race for a while," Gilbert recalled.

A long journey

That was the same car he drove seven days a week, 365 days a year, racking up extreme mileage in his business travel across rural Wisconsin.

"When I hit 600,000 miles, the car still wasn't burning oil. That's when I thought it could go a million miles," Gilbert said.

But Wisconsin winters, and road salt, took their toll on the sporty little car. While its exterior still looked pretty good, the frame had rusted to the point where it might not have been safe in a serious collision.

"There was no point in driving the car any longer, even though it might have gone another million miles," Gilbert said.

With some sadness, he donated the car to the museum, which has some rare vehicles such as the "Kissel," manufactured in Hartford from 1906 to 1931, and a Nash built in Kenosha in 1916.

For Gilbert, turning over the car's keys to the museum was like putting an elderly family member in a nursing home.

"But I know where the car is, and I can visit," he said. "And before I took her to the museum, I had a full detail job done. She was like a bride getting ready for her wedding. It was the first time that her carpets were thoroughly cleaned in 17 years."

Saab showed some interest in the car and videotaped it when the odometer rolled over the 1-million-mile mark, at a Saab owners' convention in Lake George, N.Y., in August.

Saab executives rode in the car and discussed putting it in their museum in Sweden. Gilbert hoped they would give him a new car, as a replacement, but he didn't get so much as a T-shirt from Saab.

"I am a little disappointed in them," he said.

Maintenance pays off

Putting a million miles on a car, while unusual, is possible with stellar maintenance and a little luck.

"People who get tremendous longevity from a vehicle almost always have taken great care of it," said Joe Wiesenfelder, senior producer for Cars.com, a Web page for car enthusiasts.

To extend the life of his Saab, Gilbert said, he always used premium, synthetic motor oil.

Not everyone agrees that synthetic oil helps. Regular motor oil, changed at 3,000-mile intervals, could be just as good, according to some mechanics.

Most of the things that will make a car last longer aren't very expensive, said Kathleen Schmatz, president of the Automotive Aftermarket Industry Association, a trade group.

"The problem is that some people take better care of their sweaters than their cars," she said.

Certain brands of cars, such as Lexus and Acura, are known for reliability. But that's not the same as longevity.

Driving habits are important if you want a car to last for hundreds of thousands of miles.

"I think the single most important thing is not to drive the car hard," Wiesenfelder said. "Anyone who is gradual on the gas pedal and easy on the brakes is limiting friction, shock and other things that cause wear."

Today's cars are built better than ever, and many of them could last for decades.

"A big part of this is a willingness to keep putting money into a vehicle," Wiesenfelder said.

Gilbert paid $29,000 for his Saab, which he bought on Nov. 30, 1989. He replaced it with another one that has far fewer miles.

"There's nothing more to prove," he said about reaching a million miles on one car.


Peter Gilbert's car
A 1989 Saab 900 SPG with 1,001,385 miles.

In 17 years the car used more than 600 quarts of synthetic Mobil-1 motor oil, which can travel significantly more miles between oil changes than regular oil.

In its time, the car burned two tanker-truck-loads of premium gasoline and averaged about 28 mpg.

It went through about 22 sets of tires, changed every 45,000 miles.

The transmission was replaced at about 200,000 miles, but the engine was largely untouched.

The engine head gasket was replaced three times because constant warming and cooling stretched it.

[AutobahnSHO]

I checked it again today, just a little low, I am not really worried about it too much. The only thing wrong with the engine is that it tends to "over-run" a bit when you press in the clutch. I imagine that the throttle linkage is just sticking a little.

Might be a vacuum issue, too.  Try letting off the gas THEN pushing in the clutch, if the revs are still high when the clutch engages it could be something vacuum-related?

[Morris Minor]

My accountant told me his rule of thumb to minimize the poverty-inducing nature of cars, depreciation, payments etc.

• Buy used (1-2 years old)
• Keep 10 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first
• Sell
• Repeat

I bought a new 1992 Mazda MPV and kept it for 10 years, maintaining it well. When the transmission blew (at 137,000 miles) I donated it to the Salvation Army. As  noted above, automatic transmissions tend to be the weak points.

My brother-in-law used to be a maintenance officer on an aircraft carrier; he kept F14s flying. The military keeps its planes flying forever  by keeping them on a planned parts replacement cycle. Parts are replaced on a fixed cycle, whether they need it or not. Also, if they see something that even looks suspicious (a very lightly corroded screw head, for example), it gets replaced.

If you were keen, you could do this on a car.
"December's come around again, time to replace the starter motor."
"Is it January already? Time to put in a new a/c compressor."

[J86]

I like the Saab story

[TheIntrepid]

I like the Saab story

Good to know

[AutobahnSHO]

My accountant told me his rule of thumb to minimize the poverty-inducing nature of cars, depreciation, payments etc.

• Buy used (1-2 years old)
• Keep 10 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first
• Sell
• Repeat

I bought a new 1992 Mazda MPV and kept it for 10 years, maintaining it well. When the transmission blew (at 137,000 miles) I donated it to the Salvation Army. As? noted above, automatic transmissions tend to be the weak points.

My brother-in-law used to be a maintenance officer on an aircraft carrier; he kept F14s flying. The military keeps its planes flying forever? by keeping them on a planned parts replacement cycle. Parts are replaced on a fixed cycle, whether they need it or not. Also, if they see something that even looks suspicious (a very lightly corroded screw head, for example), it gets replaced.

If you were keen, you could do this on a car.
"December's come around again, time to replace the starter motor."
"Is it January already? Time to put in a new a/c compressor."

Works pretty good, except that they're usually in price range around 10yrs/80k miles old for me. 

Really if people did the "Dealer recommended services" you'd replace most of the heavy wear parts every 60-100k miles anyways. 
When I bought my 92 (Spring 2004, 85k miles, now it has about 98k,) the guy gave me a serpentine belt, starter, and waterpump.

This summer I changed out the belt and waterpump, just because.  I won't bother with the starter until it starts to go. (or stops to start to go?  )

[Raza]

Last time I was at a Nissan dealer, they had a plaque with the customers that have reached certain mileage milestones.  I saw a 300ZX Turbo with 200,000+, and a mid nineties Max with 300,000+.

That said, I think only Toyotas are reliable. 

EDIT:  I really ought to be careful about what I say around people who aren't going to realize that I'm being sarcastic about Toyota.

[Ron From Regina]

I've religiously done my own maintainence on my pontiac sunbird since the day I've bought it. It has just a hair under 300,000Kms on it. As of yet, I have had no major powertrain issues. There was a pinched wire for the crank position sensor that would short out when it got hot, but thats been the only thing that has ever affected my ability to drive the car. It still does not use a single drop of oil between changes.

In my experience, its the other stuff that wares out. My A/C quit long ago. (For only having 2 hot months here, and driving my Mustang for those months, I didn't bother spending the time or money to fix that.) The power locks don't work any more. The radio quit. (I replaced it with an after market unit). The ABS quit (I just disconnected the abs controller) and the body is beginning to rust a little bit by the doors.

[TheIntrepid]

Last time I was at a Nissan dealer, they had a plaque with the customers that have reached certain mileage milestones. I saw a 300ZX Turbo with 200,000+, and a mid nineties Max with 300,000+.

That said, I think only Toyotas are reliable.

EDIT: I really ought to be careful about what I say around people who aren't going to realize that I'm being sarcastic about Toyota.

Don't worry Raza we all know you hate Toyota. It's surprising that you and I even get along given our taste differences

I still love your Passat... and in honesty I love VW far more than Toyota.

[S204STi]

Last time I was at a Nissan dealer, they had a plaque with the customers that have reached certain mileage milestones.  I saw a 300ZX Turbo with 200,000+, and a mid nineties Max with 300,000+.

That said, I think only Toyotas are reliable. 

EDIT:  I really ought to be careful about what I say around people who aren't going to realize that I'm being sarcastic about Toyota.

Not to mention myriad Hondas, Subarus, and even the 1995 GMC Vandura 2500 I did an oil change on that had 190,000 miles on original guts.  Or the Buick with 130k, etc.

[JWC]

Well, this week alone:

1999 Expedition, no engine or transmission repairs (rare)--174.000 miles
1994 T-Bird V6, no engine repairs, trans replaced two years ago--192,000 miles
1998 F150 V8, no engine repairs, transmission had valve body replaced at 80-something----214,00 miles

1996 Taurus  3.0  never had a coolant flush (until last week)--radiator is plugged up, heater core is stopped up.  I also think that it has a blown head gasket due to odor from exhaust, but couldn't confirm it-----110,000.

I have a customer who has never had a problem with his Taurus, he is a traveling salesman, and his 2001 Taurus has over 160,000 miles on it. He follows the normal service recommendation.

[TBR]

Might be a vacuum issue, too.  Try letting off the gas THEN pushing in the clutch, if the revs are still high when the clutch engages it could be something vacuum-related?

Well, I was taking pictures of it yesterday and decided that while I had the camera out I would go ahead and record a video of me revving it up in neutral. Well, while I was doing this it pinned itself past redline and just stayed there (well, I turned it off as quickly as I could). Does that help at all?

And, I am now thinking that it is oil that it is leaking . Taking it to a mechanic Tuesday, I'll see what he can find.

By the way, the Neon did the same thing with the revs hanging. Very annoying imho.

[AutobahnSHO]

Well, I was taking pictures of it yesterday and decided that while I had the camera out I would go ahead and record a video of me revving it up in neutral. Well, while I was doing this it pinned itself past redline and just stayed there (well, I turned it off as quickly as I could). Does that help at all?

And, I am now thinking that it is oil that it is leaking . Taking it to a mechanic Tuesday, I'll see what he can find.

By the way, the Neon did the same thing with the revs hanging. Very annoying imho.

My CRX was doing that from the time I bought it to when I sold it.  And it was carbed..   

[Nebtek2002]

I have had bad luck with manual transmissions and clutches bought used.

I've gone 150K+ on clutches  used only by the wife and me and have not yet repaired/replaced a bought-new manual trans. My two oldest kids ruined the remainders of clutches on the beaters I bought specifically to teach them stick on.

As easy as I take it on clutches, I've rarely gotten more than a year on a used one. Avoid buying used sticks; automatics take far more abuse/neglect, as other posters have observed.

I've driven rustbuckets with dark-colored auto transmission fluid 20K+ and sold the next owners working trannys.

Unless you need a clutch and synchros to work on in Manual Transmissions class at tech school, don't buy a used car with a manual.

[Rupert]

That's a silly thing to say...

I bought all my cars used, some with a ton of mileage on them. I've never had a transmission problem or a bad clutch, and only one has been an automatic.

[traumadog]

Who knows - my family runs through cars.

My father-in-law recently got rid of his 1989 Olds 98 - at 343k miles.  Wound up replacing the motor at one point, because it was cheaper than rebuilding it when it failed at 224k miles.  Still drove it from Pa to Az and back, and the only reason why he sold it was that the water pump blew and the seats were pretty shot.  Now he's got a 2k Buick LeSabre, and recently turned over 125k miles.

On all his cars, he religiously changes oil, filters,other maintenance, etc.  He built his own garage with a maintenance pit for that reason.

On my side, my dad frequently runs cars into the ground - and pushes well into the 200k mile marks for his.  he had a '90 Grand Am that he sold after turning over 241k miles, and recently sold a '00 Hyundai Elantra Wagon with 168k & was still running fine (but wouldn't pass NJ Emissions).  He still has a '87 Continental with 145k, and I have our '81 Eldorado with 128k - though both of those are low-use cars.

In the end, both my father-in-law and my dad are engineers, and they do all their own maintenance.

[AutobahnSHO]

Unless you need a clutch and synchros to work on in Manual Transmissions class at tech school, If it was driven by a woman, don't buy a used car with a manual.

The first car I bought was bought used w/ 80kish miles on it from a young woman driving it an hour on the highway to work every day.  Supposedly the clutch went out and her uncle repaired it.

Drove great until we got 20miles down the highway and a cv joint was completely destroyed. Repaired, drove it around town for a year, and the car broke down at almost the same spot as before.  Turns out the uncle put the tranny back in wrong and it couldn't handle the force at highway speeds...   Mechanic fixed it and it drove for another 100k miles on the same clutch/tranny..

I have no issues with used clutches/trannies-  if you drive them right they usually last a LONG time. Most problems are caused by
-never keep your foot on the clutch.  either engage it or don't.
-don't drive it with the clutch not working right.  get it adjusted/ fixed or you'll trash the tranny.
-don't ride the clutch, unless you like repairing them..

[Raza]

Not to mention myriad Hondas, Subarus, and even the 1995 GMC Vandura 2500 I did an oil change on that had 190,000 miles on original guts.  Or the Buick with 130k, etc.

Every time I hear someone talk about Subarus, all I hear is "They'll go on forever".  Even Top Gear talked about the Legacy as a car that will last for generations. 

[AutobahnSHO]

Every time I hear someone talk about Subarus, all I hear is "They'll go on forever".? Even Top Gear talked about the Legacy as a car that will last for generations.?

I had a 1978 wagon that we beat the holy living crap out of and only needed a clutch adjustment, new radiator hose (overheated it on the highway,) and the distributor just plain out broke. (Not my fault!) 

We jumped it, redlined it all the time, did donuts frontwards and backwards (fwd/4wd!) and drove it about a month with an empty radiator. (Wintertime though.)

This was in 1992-1994, so it was already old and had lots of miles on it!! 

[MX793]

I had a 1978 wagon that we beat the holy living crap out of and only needed a clutch adjustment, new radiator hose (overheated it on the highway,) and the distributor just plain out broke. (Not my fault!) 

We jumped it, redlined it all the time, did donuts frontwards and backwards (fwd/4wd!) and drove it about a month with an empty radiator. (Wintertime though.)

This was in 1992-1994, so it was already old and had lots of miles on it!! 

The big problem with older Subarus is that they tended to rust.  My parents had an '82 wagon and it started to show some rust after only a few years and they take care of their cars.

[AutobahnSHO]

The big problem with older Subarus is that they tended to rust.? My parents had an '82 wagon and it started to show some rust after only a few years and they take care of their cars.

LOL
My wheels were perfect for off-roading.  They were all a uniform reddish-brown color- didn't have to clean them... 

[L. ed foote]

Hello,

Assuming you do preventative maintainence consistently, what is the upper limit of mileage and age for a vehicle so you would "run it into the ground".

How long are vehicle designed to last as per the examples given here? (This being your regular vehicle)

What are the most common problems bringing the vehicles demise?

Not taking into consideration a well maintained upper mileage vehicle, what are the common problems that bring a vehicles demise?

In theory, a car will last forever if you keep up with scheduled maintenace.  The body will rust away and the interior will go to hell before the engine and drivetrain fails.