Top Gear: Roush Mustang vs. GT500

[omicron]

289 Hi-Po Mustang V8 =
Supercharged 4.6 Mustang V8 = Nice, but not quite so much love.

[SVT_Power]

But that SOUND

[omicron]

But that SOUND

........sounds like a manufactured sound instead of a glorious, snorting, snarling, lumpy, pure sound.

It's just a thing I have about V8 engines.

[the Teuton]

The BBC won't release the new season until the Hamster makes a full recovery, so was this leaked out?  What's the deal with this clip?

[Michael Estorol]

The BBC won't release the new season until the Hamster makes a full recovery, so was this leaked out?? What's the deal with this clip?

it may be from one of Clarkson's exploitation videos, not Top Gear.

[gasoline]

Why can't I quote when replying?
The tell me something or the other has failed.
Anyway, I agree with Catman. I love how the Roush sounds!

By the way, I have not seen it, but the rest of the video shows the car going at it with a Lotus Elise (yes, he returns to form) and losing.

[LonghornTX]

Mustangs....

Mustangs....



I need that Roush.  Any chance I can get one with a more subdued exterior?

Would it be cheaper to take a Shelby GT500 coupe and work on the suspension, get the Roush, or a Saleen, or get a Mustang GT and start from scratch?

Oh my, my brother will never want to be seen with me again.

Honesty, you would probaly end up with the best car simply starting with a regular GT.  The tuner cars like Saleen and Roush charge a pretty big surplus just for their name.  I am pretty sure this particular Roush model is easily 50K+.  The Shelby starts out with big HP, but you are left with a rather front heavy car.

So, as an example the pricing would break down something like this.
28K For the GT equipped as I would want it with premium, and the interior upgrade.
+5-7K for engine modifications (you are looking at probably 550-600 crank at the upper end of that spectrum)
+2.5k for suspension (including everything this Roush has plus a desirable watts link)
+3K for better rubber and wheels (I would go for ASA AR1s (licensed BBS copies) w/ 275/40/18 BFG KDs)
+900 for the shelby brakes

This is all without labor, as most of it you could do yourself.  Figure another 3k (could be higher) for install.  With all that you are looking at a car for about the same amount of money that is lighter AND more powerful. 

Of course there are drawbacks.  For instance, the above prices do not include any kind of body kit, which some really like on these cars, plus you would probaly have to install a good amount of it to be really saving alot of money.  Finally, you do not have a warranty either.

So, can you build a car for cheaper than these?....yes.  But you do not get a warranty and you will have to put alot of it together.

[Raza]

Interesting.  Although, I'd probably spend significantly less on power than you've alotted.  Big power isn't my thing.  Suspension, brakes, and rubber are definitely on the list, but also weight cutting.

By the way, I love ASA AR1s. 

Maybe if I had more time and money, but a 30 grand project car doesn't look like it's in the cards. 

[Raghavan]

I love that supercharger whine, but the Mustang is still way too heavy.
I'd rather have the Z06.

[SVT666]

I love that supercharger whine, but the Mustang is still way too heavy.
I'd rather have the Z06.

You aren't the target demographic for the Mustang obviously so........

[Raghavan]

You aren't the target demographic for the Mustang obviously so........

So, what's the target demographic?

[The Pirate]

So, what's the target demographic?

He just told you, it's not you.





I don't know, I really like my car (nimble, small, efficient) but I'm a big fan of anything with RWD prodigal amounts of torque and snarly V8 noises emanating from the exhaust pipes.  I will own a Mustang GT in the relatively near future.

[Raghavan]

I"m not in the 'Vette's target demographic either, but i still like it.
I don't have to be in a car's demographic just to like or  dislike it...

[The Pirate]

Ha, when Clarkson is driving the Roush, he mentions the suspension upgrades to the car (it's towards the end of the clip).  He says the suspension is 35% stiffer, then says "to be honest, so am I."




He can be vicious towards American cars, but he does seem to be fond of the Mustang, much like Hamster has a soft spot for the '68 Dodge Charger (I believe he might own one).

[Raghavan]

Ha, when Clarkson is driving the Roush, he mentions the suspension upgrades to the car (it's towards the end of the clip).  He says the suspension is 35% stiffer, then says "to be honest, so am I."




He can be vicious towards American cars, but he does seem to be fond of the Mustang, much like Hamster has a soft spot for the '68 Dodge Charger (I believe he might own one).

Hmm, I musta missed that

[LonghornTX]

Interesting.  Although, I'd probably spend significantly less on power than you've alotted.  Big power isn't my thing.  Suspension, brakes, and rubber are definitely on the list, but also weight cutting.

By the way, I love ASA AR1s. 

Maybe if I had more time and money, but a 30 grand project car doesn't look like it's in the cards. 

Interesting indeed as I would do the same thing.  I only put that up their just as a sign of what you could do, if you wanted that much.

Personally I would probably stop with a CAI, tune, UDP, and exhaust.  The rest would go to a suspension kit, watts link, brake upgrade, and lightweight DS and flywheel.  Plus the wheels and tires.

[SVT666]

I"m not in the 'Vette's target demographic either, but i still like it.
I don't have to be in a car's demographic just to like or? dislike it...

If you don't like the Mustang it's because you just don't get it.  Simple as that.  Someone who doesn't get it, will never buy one.  The Vette appeals to you because it offers what you like.  They don't even compete against one another.  I like the Vette, and I love the Z06.  But honestly, I don't love them as much as a Mustang even thought they would blow the doors of a Mustang without even trying.  A Mustang offers more of what I want in a sporty car.  There's nothing wrong with you wanting a Vette more then a Mustang, it's just I don't understand why people have to insist on comparing the two cars when no one in their right mind would ever cross shop them.

[FoMoJo]

289 Hi-Po Mustang V8 =
Supercharged 4.6 Mustang V8 = Nice, but not quite so much love.

True...the HiPo is the prettiest engine sound ever, at least imo...but this one's not bad!

[SVT666]

Honesty, you would probaly end up with the best car simply starting with a regular GT.? The tuner cars like Saleen and Roush charge a pretty big surplus just for their name.? I am pretty sure this particular Roush model is easily 50K+.? The Shelby starts out with big HP, but you are left with a rather front heavy car.

So, as an example the pricing would break down something like this.
28K For the GT equipped as I would want it with premium, and the interior upgrade.
+5-7K for engine modifications (you are looking at probably 550-600 crank at the upper end of that spectrum)
+2.5k for suspension (including everything this Roush has plus a desirable watts link)
+3K for better rubber and wheels (I would go for ASA AR1s (licensed BBS copies) w/ 275/40/18 BFG KDs)
+900 for the shelby brakes

This is all without labor, as most of it you could do yourself.? Figure another 3k (could be higher) for install.? With all that you are looking at a car for about the same amount of money that is lighter AND more powerful.?

3K will install the supercharger only.  With these tuner Mustangs a lot of the cost is in interior, body kits, and paint as well.  Like I said in another post, I would love to see a tuner company offer a full range from affordable to extreme:

Stage 1: Small supercharger, tune, cat-back, gears, WMS HighVelocity Tube CAI, and lowering kit.  Say 375hp.  Sell it for $38,000.
Stage 2: Stage 1 plus shocks and struts, bigger supercharger, H or X-pipe, clutch, and shifter.  Say 450hp.  Sell for $41,000
Stage 3: Stage 2 plus Watts link, bigger supercharger, Headers, full Kenne Brown suspension, and cams.  Say 550+hp.  Sell for $48,000
Stage 4: Most extreme tuner Stang ever.  Say $700+hp.

All available with a Ford warranty.  Wheel and Tire packages would be optional on any Stage 1 and Stage 2, but standard on Stage 3 and Stage 4.  No body kits and no interior upgrades.  Talk about the ultimate sleepers. 

[Nethead]

LonghornTX and others:? Last year or early this year on a roadracing website someone was building their own version of a Mustang FR500C.? Their cost for one set of competition 3-way adjustable shocks alone was $6500.? AAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGHHH!!!? Whatever you think it might cost you to get prime grade equipment, double your estimated cost figure and hope you have budgeted enough!

About the weight of GT500s:? Ford's planners (including Carroll Shelby) decided to give you the costly hardware--Aluminum DOHC 4-valve heads with dual injectors, variable intake timing, a 6060 Tremec 6-speed (better than the Tremecs provided on any other vehicle you can buy), a supercharger, an intercooler, big bearings, big Brembo discs in front with the Ford GT master cylinder, about the biggest tires you can fit in the wheelwells plus the aluminum wheels to mount them, oversized radiator, a lightweight air extractor hood, bigger springs, bigger shocks, bigger swaybars, etc., not to mention a chassis rigidity of nearly 7500 lbs/inch (the Gallardo AWD is considered exceptionally stiff at 6000 lbs/inch, for comparison).? This is stuff you want and need when you've got 500 HP and 480 ft lbs of torque attached to the skinny pedal.? And it's all costly ('Priced Brembos lately?? Or a Tremec 6060?)--and it's substantially heavier than the equipment that comes with a 300 HP Mustang GT.?
Ford left the lightweight non-mechanical parts up to you (and your bankroll)--carbon-fiber fenders, carbon-fiber decklid, plexiglass windows, etc.? You don't have to align bore them, port them, polish them, balance them, shot peen them, heat treat them, yada yada yada--all you havta do with those is paint 'em and bolt 'em on!? The easy stuff.? ?
'Ever taken the heads off an LS7 and tried to make 4-valvers out of them with your drill press and radial arm saw??
In the much more expensive Corvette Z06, Chevy gives you balsa floorpans, but a pushrod two-valve engine (I believe the engine in the 1903 Wright Brothers "Flyer" used a pushrod two-valve engine) and a transverse leaf spring suspension (which you could get on the front of Model T Fords at least as early as 1930). But the Z06 IS lighter...?

[SVT666]

LonghornTX and others:? Last year or early this year on a roadracing website someone was building their own version of a Mustang FR500C.? Their cost for one set of competition 3-way adjustable shocks alone was $6500.? AAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGHHH!!!? Whatever you think it might cost you to get prime grade equipment, double your estimated cost figure and hope you have budgeted enough!

About the weight of GT500s:? Ford's planners (including Carroll Shelby) decided to give you the costly hardware--Aluminum DOHC 4-valve heads with dual injectors, variable intake timing, a 6060 Tremec 6-speed (better than the Tremecs provided on any other vehicle you can buy), a supercharger, an intercooler, big bearings, big Brembo discs in front with the Ford GT master cylinder, about the biggest tires you can fit in the wheelwells plus the aluminum wheels to mount them, oversized radiator, a lightweight air extractor hood, bigger springs, bigger shocks, bigger swaybars, etc., not to mention a chassis rigidity of nearly 7500 lbs/inch (the Gallardo AWD is considered exceptionally stiff at 6000 lbs/inch, for comparison).? This is stuff you want and need when you've got 500 HP and 480 ft lbs of torque attached to the skinny pedal.? And it's all costly ('Priced Brembos lately?? Or a Tremec 6060?)--and it's substantially heavier than the equipment that comes with a 300 HP Mustang GT.?
Ford left the lightweight non-mechanical parts up to you (and your bankroll)--carbon-fiber fenders, carbon-fiber decklid, plexiglass windows, etc.? You don't have to align bore them, port them, polish them, balance them, shot peen them, heat treat them, yada yada yada--all you havta do with those is paint 'em and bolt 'em on!? The easy stuff.? ?
'Ever taken the heads off an LS7 and tried to make 4-valvers out of them with your drill press and radial arm saw??
In the much more expensive Corvette Z06, Chevy gives you balsa floorpans, but a pushrod two-valve engine (I believe the engine in the 1903 Wright Brothers "Flyer" used a pushrod two-valve engine) and a transverse leaf spring suspension (which you could get on the front of Model T Fords at least as early as 1930). But the Z06 IS lighter...?

Oh Nethead, please don't be a pushrod hater.  I love pushrods for their simplicity and because they are so cheap to modify.  I don't prefer pushrod or OHC, but the LS Series engines and the Chrysler Hemi's are fantastic engines...period.  Not fantastic for pushrods, but fantastic for any engine.

[Raza]

Well, I'd say they did a fine job keeping the price down, since the Saleen S281 is 43 grand, and that has only 335bhp.

52 grand of the S281 supercharged, and that's got 465.  The Saleen S281 Extreme has 550bhp, but comes in at 70 grand.

However, the weight is estimated at 3,356 pounds.

[SVT666]

Well, I'd say they did a fine job keeping the price down, since the Saleen S281 is 43 grand, and that has only 335bhp.

52 grand of the S281 supercharged, and that's got 465.? The Saleen S281 Extreme has 550bhp, but comes in at 70 grand.

However, the weight is estimated at 3,356 pounds.

It's actually 330 for the S281 and the S281SC has 435.  I'm not sure about prices though.

[SVT666]

Well, I'd say they did a fine job keeping the price down, since the Saleen S281 is 43 grand, and that has only 335bhp.

52 grand of the S281 supercharged, and that's got 465.? The Saleen S281 Extreme has 550bhp, but comes in at 70 grand.

However, the weight is estimated at 3,356 pounds.

Those are the absolute base prices of each car.  You can easily tach on an additional $25K in options on any of those cars.

[sandertheshark]

In the much more expensive Corvette Z06, Chevy gives you balsa floorpans, but a pushrod two-valve engine (I believe the engine in the 1903 Wright Brothers "Flyer" used a pushrod two-valve engine) and a transverse leaf spring suspension (which you could get on the front of Model T Fords at least as early as 1930). But the Z06 IS lighter...?

It's those cheap, low-tech and lightweight features that let a $65,000 car beat the pants off a Lamborghini.

[Raza]

It's those cheap, low-tech and lightweight features that let a $65,000 car beat the pants off a Lamborghini.

Which Lamborghini?  Countach?

[SVT666]

Which Lamborghini?? Countach?

I know it's faster then any Lamborghini around the Top Gear racetrack.  The Z06 is faster then a Murcielago by 1.3 seconds.

[Raza]

I know it's faster then any Lamborghini around the Top Gear racetrack.  The Z06 is faster then a Murcielago by 1.3 seconds.

It's slower than both generations of Gallardo around Bedford West, despite having a higher peak speed.  Evo's never put a Murcielago around that track in the dry, so that time really isn't applicable.

[Lebowski]

In the much more expensive Corvette Z06, Chevy gives you balsa floorpans, but a pushrod two-valve engine (I believe the engine in the 1903 Wright Brothers "Flyer" used a pushrod two-valve engine) and a transverse leaf spring suspension (which you could get on the front of Model T Fords at least as early as 1930). But the Z06 IS lighter...?

Talk all the shit you want about pushrods and Model T derived leaf springs, at the end of the day a base corvette (which is the same price as the GT500 even before the five figure "market adjustments" some suckers have been paying) will go around a track faster than the ford.  Hell, it even beats the fat pig at the one thing it should be good at, going fast in a straight line.

[LonghornTX]

3K will install the supercharger only.  With these tuner Mustangs a lot of the cost is in interior, body kits, and paint as well.  Like I said in another post, I would love to see a tuner company offer a full range from affordable to extreme:

Stage 1: Small supercharger, tune, cat-back, gears, WMS HighVelocity Tube CAI, and lowering kit.  Say 375hp.  Sell it for $38,000.
Stage 2: Stage 1 plus shocks and struts, bigger supercharger, H or X-pipe, clutch, and shifter.  Say 450hp.  Sell for $41,000
Stage 3: Stage 2 plus Watts link, bigger supercharger, Headers, full Kenne Brown suspension, and cams.  Say 550+hp.  Sell for $48,000
Stage 4: Most extreme tuner Stang ever.  Say $700+hp.

All available with a Ford warranty.  Wheel and Tire packages would be optional on any Stage 1 and Stage 2, but standard on Stage 3 and Stage 4.  No body kits and no interior upgrades.  Talk about the ultimate sleepers. 

Like I said, you would definately have to install many things yourself  :P.  Your idea is very cool indeed and I wish that cars like the ones you outlined existed in the market  .