Ford Five Hundred

[Catman]

I?m admittedly not getting the cool reception to the Ford Five Hundred.  First off I?m no apologist for Ford as I have had many an experience with them.  My first Ford was my first car, a 1983 F150.  In 1987 I got a brand new F150 4X2, short bed, 4.9 I6, 5 speed.  This was my first new vehicle and I loved it till I sold it a few years later.  I remember it being a really solid truck.  I think it cost me $9800?  And I wish I still had it.  Then came the Tempo that I got when I got married, it was crap.  The quality of the Tempo was terrible so we marched into a Mazda dealer and got a 1990 626 LX with a 5 speed.  This was my first Japanese vehicle.  

The Mazda was a solid ride that just plain did what it was designed to do, which was to provide reliable, basic family transportation with no distraction.  It looked decent, didn?t make strange noises, got OK mileage and didn?t impose one inconvenience to me until about 80,000 miles when the intake developed a small tear.  It outlasted my first marriage and I kept driving it until 140,000 miles.  At that point it still ran perfect with the exception of the hole in the muffler.  Because of the mileage I though I should get something new, big mistake.  The 626 still looked like a car with 25,000 miles and it probably would?ve given me another couple years.  Enter the Ford Taurus wagon.

At the time I was a single parent so I was looking for practical with some room.  It was 1993 Ford Taurus wagon with 18,000 miles.  At the time it was the most popular family car around so I figured I?d jump on the bandwagon (no pun intended).  It was big mistake and a move that pushed me to the dark side.  It wasn?t that the 626 was so great, but it was that the Ford was just so bad.  The fact that Ford was using the ?Quality is Job 1? tagline was insult to injury.  The car was a piece of shit, plain and simple.  I could list everything wrong with it but I won?t.  All I have to say is that even when it wasn?t broke the dash would vibrate, jump and rattle just to remind me I shouldn?t be complacent.  Twice I took the dash apart to tighten it down and found nothing to tighten, just a hollow space in which any possible attempt to design a proper fastening system must have been eliminated by the bean counters.  I hated the car.  I sold it to an old guy in town and it?s still around?surprisingly.  I admit though I steer clear of the guy, LOL

Since then I?ve had a 2001 Nissan Pathfinder, an Infiniti G20, a Nissan Maxima and two Toyota Sequoia?s.  Notice no Fords.

This all brings me to the new Five Hundred.  I?ve been in most of the competition and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the new Ford.  In fact, it beats the competition in many areas important areas like room, cargo space and safety.  And, while it?s still early, the quality seems much improved over previous products.  I found the interior solid as a rock and the materials on par with most of the Japanese products I?ve owned and sat in.  Considering that most Camry and Accord owners opt for a four banger I don?t think the 3.0L is as much an Achilles heel as enthusiasts make it out to be.  I also hear whining about styling.  For crying out loud the car looks better than both the Camry and Accord.  I don?t really see a bad line on the car.  Yeah, it?s no 300, but it fills its role in a perfect fashion.  I haven?t seen sales numbers yet but it doesn?t seem as though people are sucking them up very fast, though I hear a lot of positive comments from people who are just now noticing them (not everyone follows new products).  As a matter of fact my friend just grabbed an AWD one and says it is solid as a rock with not a squeak or rattle to be heard.  Not only that, he?s a good size guy and says it?s the most comfortable car he tried with room to spare.  Yeah, he?d like a little more power but it wasn?t a deal breaker for him.  I can?t tell you how impressed I was with it.  As a matter of fact, it was good enough to cleanse some of my ill feelings left from my Taurus experience.  I have to believe that families will see it my way when they go shopping. It?s a worthy entry into the family sedan market.  I?m curious to see how it plays out.

[TBR]

I pretty much agree with everything you said. The Five Hundred is an attractive (much more attractive than the Accord or Camry), high quality family sedan that has decent power and excellent gas mileage. People just don't seem to be able to get the idea that this is a family sedan and not a race car into their heads!

[93JC]

In the minds of your typical "import" buyer and, well, the automotive media in its entirety, Ford has circled the biggest problem:

[MX793]

Saw one at the grocery store the other day.  It's not exactly an exciting looking car, but I don't think it's quite as bland as the press makes it out to be.  It's got a sort of understated elegance to it that I kind of like.  No, it doesn't jump out at you, but it's not really a bad looking car either.

[GMPenguin]

Interesting take, this could be a nice little editorial to feature on the site.

[VetteZ06]

I haven't seen any on the road yet (which I think is strange), but I did sit in one at the auto show, along with the Mercury Montego. Tons of room, well-built, and reasonably attractive.

My only complaint (which has been mentioned time and time again) is that it should have more power. It's not a dog, necessarily, but it's definitely a step behind some of its competition. This shouldn't be a deal-breaker for anybody interested in the car, but a more powerful engine would only give them more incentive to take a Five Hundred home.

[ifcar]

I haven't seen any on the road yet (which I think is strange), but I did sit in one at the auto show, along with the Mercury Montego. Tons of room, well-built, and reasonably attractive.

My only complaint (which has been mentioned time and time again) is that it should have more power. It's not a dog, necessarily, but it's definitely a step behind some of its competition. This shouldn't be a deal-breaker for anybody interested in the car, but a more powerful engine would only give them more incentive to take a Five Hundred home.

As I'm sure you've heard, 2007 MY brings the upgraded engine option.  

[VetteZ06]

Good, because the Five Hundred deserves a better engine.

I seem to keep forgetting about the update, though . . .  :ph34r:  

[BMWDave]

I agree with everything you said.  Funny thing is that my family had an 89 Ford Taurus Wagon which was the biggest piece of crap in the world!  AAA threatened to take away our membership because we were getting towed so much!  The engine had to be replaced.  The transmissions were replaced NUMEROUS times!  And the car only had about 50K miles!

Nevertheless, I do see Ford putting a lot more effort into cars.  I was very impressed with the 500 when I sat in it and I would definitely buy it if I needed a family car.  It does everything its supposed to do very well.

[MX793]

It's funny how many people had problems with Tauruses.  My family had 3 of them when I was growing up.  The first was an '88 wagon.  That thing was bulletproof.  After my folks traded it in, it wound up being purchased by a salesmen who, coincidentally, sold NAPA products to my father's workplace.  When he got rid of the car, it had over 270K miles on it and never had a single major mechanical problem.  All he did was basic maintenance.

The second Taurus my parents had was a '94 sedan.  The only problem we ever had with the car was when a hose going to the transmission blew and all of the tranny fluid leaked out, stranding us on the road.  Their third Taurus was a '97.  That one had a an bad connection in a plug that led to the car refusing to start once or twice.  Once the plug was pushed together more securely, it never had a problem again.  The car also had a habit of warping brake rotors, but overall was generally pretty reliable.  Granted, my folks only kept the latter two cars for 3-4 years and they didn't put a lot of miles on them, so who knows how the cars held up after they were gone.  But we know the first one held up really well.

[BMWDave]

It's funny how many people had problems with Tauruses.  My family had 3 of them when I was growing up.  The first was an '88 wagon.  That thing was bulletproof.  After my folks traded it in, it wound up being purchased by a salesmen who, coincidentally, sold NAPA products to my father's workplace.  When he got rid of the car, it had over 270K miles on it and never had a single major mechanical problem.  All he did was basic maintenance.

The second Taurus my parents had was a '94 sedan.  The only problem we ever had with the car was when a hose going to the transmission blew and all of the tranny fluid leaked out, stranding us on the road.  Their third Taurus was a '97.  That one had a an bad connection in a plug that led to the car refusing to start once or twice.  Once the plug was pushed together more securely, it never had a problem again.  The car also had a habit of warping brake rotors, but overall was generally pretty reliable.  Granted, my folks only kept the latter two cars for 3-4 years and they didn't put a lot of miles on them, so who knows how the cars held up after they were gone.  But we know the first one held up really well.

I guess you were really lucky.  I know many people who had big big trouble with their Tauruses.

[hahn]

I love the the Five Hundred.  It's a very attractive car.  I'd like the opportunity to test drive on sometime, but I would definitely buy a Five Hundred over an Impala or a Camry.




Edit:  the only thing that concerns me is the long term reliability of the CVT and the 6 speed auto.  Ford doesn't have the greatest track record for FWD auto trannies (neither does GM, Chrysler, or Honda as of late for that matter)  Still though, it sadly could be the downfall of the car.

[MX793]

I love the the Five Hundred.  It's a very attractive car.  I'd like the opportunity to test drive on sometime, but I would definitely buy a Five Hundred over an Impala or a Camry.




Edit:  the only thing that concerns me is the long term reliability of the CVT and the 6 speed auto.  Ford doesn't have the greatest track record for FWD auto trannies (neither does GM, Chrysler, or Honda as of late for that matter)  Still though, it sadly could be the downfall of the car.

The CVT is outsourced (I think it's an Aisin unit).  And isn't the 6 speed that gearbox that Ford worked with GM to make?  GM knows their stuff when it comes to automatic gearboxes.

[BMWDave]

I love the the Five Hundred.  It's a very attractive car.  I'd like the opportunity to test drive on sometime, but I would definitely buy a Five Hundred over an Impala or a Camry.




Edit:  the only thing that concerns me is the long term reliability of the CVT and the 6 speed auto.  Ford doesn't have the greatest track record for FWD auto trannies (neither does GM, Chrysler, or Honda as of late for that matter)  Still though, it sadly could be the downfall of the car.

The CVT is outsourced (I think it's an Aisin unit).  And isn't the 6 speed that gearbox that Ford worked with GM to make?  GM knows their stuff when it comes to automatic gearboxes.

It is a ZF unit made in Germany I believe.

[hahn]

The CVT is outsourced (I think it's an Aisin unit).  And isn't the 6 speed that gearbox that Ford worked with GM to make?  GM knows their stuff when it comes to automatic gearboxes.

I did not know this.

[TBR]

I love the the Five Hundred.  It's a very attractive car.  I'd like the opportunity to test drive on sometime, but I would definitely buy a Five Hundred over an Impala or a Camry.




Edit:  the only thing that concerns me is the long term reliability of the CVT and the 6 speed auto.  Ford doesn't have the greatest track record for FWD auto trannies (neither does GM, Chrysler, or Honda as of late for that matter)  Still though, it sadly could be the downfall of the car.

The CVT is outsourced (I think it's an Aisin unit).  And isn't the 6 speed that gearbox that Ford worked with GM to make?  GM knows their stuff when it comes to automatic gearboxes.

Actually the 6-speed is also an Aisin unit, the GM/Ford joint project box wouldn't be ready until '06 or '07. I am guessing that when the Five Hundred gets its new body work it will also be getting the joint venture tranny.

[BMWDave]

I love the the Five Hundred.? It's a very attractive car.? I'd like the opportunity to test drive on sometime, but I would definitely buy a Five Hundred over an Impala or a Camry.




Edit:? the only thing that concerns me is the long term reliability of the CVT and the 6 speed auto.? Ford doesn't have the greatest track record for FWD auto trannies (neither does GM, Chrysler, or Honda as of late for that matter)? Still though, it sadly could be the downfall of the car.

The CVT is outsourced (I think it's an Aisin unit).  And isn't the 6 speed that gearbox that Ford worked with GM to make?  GM knows their stuff when it comes to automatic gearboxes.

Actually the 6-speed is also an Aisin unit, the GM/Ford joint project box wouldn't be ready until '06 or '07. I am guessing that when the Five Hundred gets its new body work it will also be getting the joint venture tranny.

I always thought it was ZF.

Edit:  Wait, I think the 6 speed is definitely ZF, and I'm not sure about the CVT.

[TBR]

I love the the Five Hundred.  It's a very attractive car.  I'd like the opportunity to test drive on sometime, but I would definitely buy a Five Hundred over an Impala or a Camry.




Edit:  the only thing that concerns me is the long term reliability of the CVT and the 6 speed auto.  Ford doesn't have the greatest track record for FWD auto trannies (neither does GM, Chrysler, or Honda as of late for that matter)  Still though, it sadly could be the downfall of the car.

The CVT is outsourced (I think it's an Aisin unit).  And isn't the 6 speed that gearbox that Ford worked with GM to make?  GM knows their stuff when it comes to automatic gearboxes.

Actually the 6-speed is also an Aisin unit, the GM/Ford joint project box wouldn't be ready until '06 or '07. I am guessing that when the Five Hundred gets its new body work it will also be getting the joint venture tranny.

I always thought it was ZF.

Edit:  Wait, I think the 6 speed is definitely ZF, and I'm not sure about the CVT.

The 6-speed auto in Ford's rear drive vehicles is a ZF, but I believe the FWD unit is from Aisin. However, I might be wrong.

[MX793]

Did some research.  The 6AT is from Aisin.  The CVT is from ZF.

[BMWDave]

I just looked it up.  The CVT is ZF Batavia.  I think the regular 6 speed is also.

[TBR]

Did some research.  The 6AT is from Aisin.  The CVT is from ZF.

Surprise, surprise, I was right

[MX793]

I should have know the 6 spd was from Aisin, since I knew that the 6 speed auto that Mazda is using is an Aisin box.

[BMWDave]

Did some research.  The 6AT is from Aisin.  The CVT is from ZF.

Surprise, surprise, I was right

I see.  I knew one of them was from ZF.

[Catman]

The Museum of Vanilla!


















Yup, the 500/Montego are just fine!  

[BMWDave]

Catman, the 300 doesnt even look so nice if it isnt the 300C version.  And I like the cleanly styled 500 and Montego.  They fit in perfectly.

[Catman]

Catman, the 300 doesnt even look so nice if it isnt the 300C version.  And I like the cleanly styled 500 and Montego.  They fit in perfectly.

Yeah, I wouldn't even consider a non "C" 300.  They're really bad looking IMO.  I think the 300 was designed as the "C" model and then downgraded from there and it doesn't work out very well.

[JWC]

I get to play with 500s everyday. Its my job.

In my opinion, the Five-Hundred is designed to appeal to a younger audience without alienating retirees that usually buy the Crown Victoria.  Ford is trying to satisfy too large of a segment. This has its bad points, as well as good.

Trying to satisfy everyone, means that you do not completely satisfy anyone.  The 30-45 group want a car that has plenty of interior space and a large trunk.  They are more apt to travel on vacations and need the room for children and luggage. When not traveling, the Five-Hundred has plenty of room for golf clubs and a cooler filled with beer.  The Five-Hundred meets that criteria but the styling falls short of what the segment desires. They want a car that is sporty. A car that says they are successful. The Five-Hundred falls short in this respect.  BMW and Mercedes have always had a distinct styling that is easily recognized and follows each model.  It may be only the grille in some cases, but it is a easily recognizable trademark and it is recognized by everyone imediately.  The owner of a BMW or a Mercedes buys this recognition and it says "I've made it".

The younger buyers looking at something besides a German model, those looking for "something different" such as a Infiniti or a Lexus, are looking for a car that appears to be the cutting edge of automotive styling. A rakish design that looks as if it is moving though it is sitting still. The problem with these designs is their tendency to look dated five years later. The Five-Hundred in an effort to design a vehicle that will not look dated in five years, designed a car that looks so uninspired that is tends to already look dated.

The design lends itself well to the retiree market, those in their sixties, looking to replace their Crown Victoria or looking to purchase their "last" car.  Unfortunately, the powertrain tends to alienate this segment. They are comfortable with rear wheel drive.They haven't a clue about CVT transmissions.  This age group tend not to embrace new technology and the mere mention of a six speed transmission worries the generation that had difficulty accepting automatics in the 1950s.

The powetrain is again a design of compromise. Just enough power to make one wonder what could be if there were a few more horses available, but not enough to scare off the retiree market.  While it is still too soon to really make an assessment of the reliablity of the Five-Hundred it is off to a good start.  There has not been one  in for anything more than a pinched piece of trim (knocking on wood). We did have a very early production model of a Freestyle in for a transmission replacement. The CVT just quit and wouldn't move. The Freestyle had 6000 miles on it and Ford had to pull a transmission off the line to replace this one. Still, it took two and a half weeks to get the car back to the owner. There was already a TSB published for the concern which meant that Ford was aware of the problem early in production and updated the CVT to limit the problem before it became widespread.

Overall the Five-Hundred is a decent automobile. Unfortunately, is is just  a decent automobile. Uninspiring to drive and uninspiring to behold.

[ifcar]

I get to play with 500s everyday. Its my job.

In my opinion, the Five-Hundred is designed to appeal to a younger audience without alienating retirees that usually buy the Crown Victoria.  Ford is trying to satisfy too large of a segment. This has its bad points, as well as good.

Trying to satisfy everyone, means that you do not completely satisfy anyone.  The 30-45 group want a car that has plenty of interior space and a large trunk.  They are more apt to travel on vacations and need the room for children and luggage. When not traveling, the Five-Hundred has plenty of room for golf clubs and a cooler filled with beer.  The Five-Hundred meets that criteria but the styling falls short of what the segment desires. They want a car that is sporty. A car that says they are successful. The Five-Hundred falls short in this respect.  BMW and Mercedes have always had a distinct styling that is easily recognized and follows each model.  It may be only the grille in some cases, but it is a easily recognizable trademark and it is recognized by everyone imediately.  The owner of a BMW or a Mercedes buys this recognition and it says "I've made it".

The younger buyers looking at something besides a German model, those looking for "something different" such as a Infiniti or a Lexus, are looking for a car that appears to be the cutting edge of automotive styling. A rakish design that looks as if it is moving though it is sitting still. The problem with these designs is their tendency to look dated five years later. The Five-Hundred in an effort to design a vehicle that will not look dated in five years, designed a car that looks so uninspired that is tends to already look dated.

The design lends itself well to the retiree market, those in their sixties, looking to replace their Crown Victoria or looking to purchase their "last" car.  Unfortunately, the powertrain tends to alienate this segment. They are comfortable with rear wheel drive.They haven't a clue about CVT transmissions.  This age group tend not to embrace new technology and the mere mention of a six speed transmission worries the generation that had difficulty accepting automatics in the 1950s.

The powetrain is again a design of compromise. Just enough power to make one wonder what could be if there were a few more horses available, but not enough to scare off the retiree market.  While it is still too soon to really make an assessment of the reliablity of the Five-Hundred it is off to a good start.  There has not been one  in for anything more than a pinched piece of trim (knocking on wood). We did have a very early production model of a Freestyle in for a transmission replacement. The CVT just quit and wouldn't move. The Freestyle had 6000 miles on it and Ford had to pull a transmission off the line to replace this one. Still, it took two and a half weeks to get the car back to the owner. There was already a TSB published for the concern which meant that Ford was aware of the problem early in production and updated the CVT to limit the problem before it became widespread.

Overall the Five-Hundred is a decent automobile. Unfortunately, is is just  a decent automobile. Uninspiring to drive and uninspiring to behold.

I disagree completely. Ford didn't have to design the car to appeal to Crown Vic fans, they have the Crown Vic for that. And you are mistaking "younger" for "young", this car is going after the Accord and Camry (they certainly don't paint a picture of sucecss). The Fusion will be the sportier Ford to go after even younger buyers, but they're still not looking for too many twenty-somethings with either.  

[BMWDave]

I get to play with 500s everyday. Its my job.

In my opinion, the Five-Hundred is designed to appeal to a younger audience without alienating retirees that usually buy the Crown Victoria.  Ford is trying to satisfy too large of a segment. This has its bad points, as well as good.

Trying to satisfy everyone, means that you do not completely satisfy anyone.  The 30-45 group want a car that has plenty of interior space and a large trunk.  They are more apt to travel on vacations and need the room for children and luggage. When not traveling, the Five-Hundred has plenty of room for golf clubs and a cooler filled with beer.  The Five-Hundred meets that criteria but the styling falls short of what the segment desires. They want a car that is sporty. A car that says they are successful. The Five-Hundred falls short in this respect.  BMW and Mercedes have always had a distinct styling that is easily recognized and follows each model.  It may be only the grille in some cases, but it is a easily recognizable trademark and it is recognized by everyone imediately.  The owner of a BMW or a Mercedes buys this recognition and it says "I've made it".

The younger buyers looking at something besides a German model, those looking for "something different" such as a Infiniti or a Lexus, are looking for a car that appears to be the cutting edge of automotive styling. A rakish design that looks as if it is moving though it is sitting still. The problem with these designs is their tendency to look dated five years later. The Five-Hundred in an effort to design a vehicle that will not look dated in five years, designed a car that looks so uninspired that is tends to already look dated.

The design lends itself well to the retiree market, those in their sixties, looking to replace their Crown Victoria or looking to purchase their "last" car.  Unfortunately, the powertrain tends to alienate this segment. They are comfortable with rear wheel drive.They haven't a clue about CVT transmissions.  This age group tend not to embrace new technology and the mere mention of a six speed transmission worries the generation that had difficulty accepting automatics in the 1950s.

The powetrain is again a design of compromise. Just enough power to make one wonder what could be if there were a few more horses available, but not enough to scare off the retiree market.  While it is still too soon to really make an assessment of the reliablity of the Five-Hundred it is off to a good start.  There has not been one  in for anything more than a pinched piece of trim (knocking on wood). We did have a very early production model of a Freestyle in for a transmission replacement. The CVT just quit and wouldn't move. The Freestyle had 6000 miles on it and Ford had to pull a transmission off the line to replace this one. Still, it took two and a half weeks to get the car back to the owner. There was already a TSB published for the concern which meant that Ford was aware of the problem early in production and updated the CVT to limit the problem before it became widespread.

Overall the Five-Hundred is a decent automobile. Unfortunately, is is just  a decent automobile. Uninspiring to drive and uninspiring to behold.

I disagree completely. Ford didn't have to design the car to appeal to Crown Vic fans, they have the Crown Vic for that. And you are mistaking "younger" for "young", this car is going after the Accord and Camry (they certainly don't paint a picture of sucecss). The Fusion will be the sportier Ford to go after even younger buyers, but they're still not looking for too many twenty-somethings with either.

Its pretty much how Iffy said it.  The 500 is for family, and the Fusion will provide the styling and sportiness that some people in the segment want.

[JWC]

I think you'll find that Ford is looking to do away with something besides the Taurus.  The only reason the Crown is still available is because it was the last car standing in the LEO wars.