IS350 wins sports sedan comparo????

[ro51092]

FWD on that spec sheet doesn't help the cause either

[nickdrinkwater]

Damn.  5.4 Seconds to 60?  That's quick!  And that was the slowest?

[TBR]

No, the TL-S was slower (5.7 seconds).

[Raza]

I happen to like the TL a bunch, and people who can't get over torque steer need to drive a FWD car differently than they would a RWD car.  coming from a FWD car that has 280+ lb-ft of torque available low in the RPM's I can tell you all you want to know about torque steer, and for me I don't even notice it.  My tires hardly slip anymore, the wheel hardly moves when I accelerate.  Just need to be gentle.

When we drove the TL, I thought it hid the fact it was FWD quite well I was actually rather impressed.  The interior is also a step up on the G35, along with the radio.  The bose system in the G35 is sad.

I found the driving in the TL rather numb, and the gearchange not especially good.

[565]

In order of quickness:
1. 335i
2. IS350
3. G35
4. TL-S

The last 3 are definitely right (based on this comparo), not positive if the 335i will be the fastest but even the 330i was faster than the TL-S is IIRC.

Frankly, the R&T test seemed a little ridiculous, I just read it and they really didn't have much of a reason to put the G35 in last. I can't believe they actually called it slow considering it made it to 60 in 5.4 seconds. The only thing they complained about was the clutch, other than that it seemed to be all praise. I don't know, wish I could drive the cars myself.


Yo, you can't tell what car is the best handling based on a spec sheet, it doesn't work that way, not for street cars anyway.

I finally read the article in print.

Anyone else notice something interesting?  The IS350 had a .5 second lead over the G35 at 60mph, and holds that advantage through the quartermile.  Some would see this as evidence of the IS350 being more powerful. 

But keep watching the race, because by 120mph the G35 is somehow .3 seconds AHEAD of the IS350.  Thats right folks, despite being lacking in low end torque, the G35 makes up for it with some massive top end power. 

Since the G35 hasn't made up much ground in the quarter mile, that means the G35 manages to pull a .8 second lead from about 100mph to 120mph.  I would attribute this to that 7600rpm redline and those ram air intakes that Infiniti's been crowing about.

At first I was skeptical of those ram air intakes that was supposed to add about 3hp at 60mph.  Well this comparo does seem to suggest that the G35 is seriously gaining power as the speedo climbs.  Perhaps at 120mph that VQ HR is making 10hp extra?  Maybe more?


Thus in terms of acceleration the G35, IS350 and BMW 335 might not be so easy to rank, as each car has its strengths and weaknesses.

This IS350 time is as fast as the times recorded for the BMW 335, around 4.9sec 0-60 and 13.5 in the quarter at 105mph.  So these two cars are neck and neck in every way.  I think that with so much more torque, that the 335 might be faster at slower speeds and lower RPMS.

The G35 looks to be the sure loser of this race, but seeing it's amazing top end performance win over the IS350 in this comparo suggests that the G35 with its ram air intakes can surpass these cars if the speeds get high enough.

[sportyaccordy]

565-

I believe the VQ HR has a ram air effect that does significantly boost top end.

[Raza]

Welcome, 565!  That your Z06?

[565]

Welcome, 565!? That your Z06?

Yep, or at least until the police take it away from me and lock me up.

I guess I finally registered here after things at C&D were just getting way too slow.  Thank you for the warm welcome.  I noticed that very nice Boxster S you just got in that other thread, Congrats.

[Raza]

Yep, or at least until the police take it away from me and lock me up.

I guess I finally registered here after things at C&D were just getting way too slow.  Thank you for the warm welcome.  I noticed that very nice Boxster S you just got in that other thread, Congrats.

Thank you!  I do believe I remember you from that area of unpleasantness.  It's good to have you. 

[GoCougs]

I'd be very suprised that a ram air setup is going to give those kinds of HP gains.

Perhaps the IS350's upper gears are MPG friendly, or that it has a bunch more downforce (that's a stretch I think).

[JYODER240]

The 350Z is the same way. Decent 0-60 times but it pulls extremely hard from 70-130.

[sportyaccordy]

I'd be very suprised that a ram air setup is going to give those kinds of HP gains.

Perhaps the IS350's upper gears are MPG friendly, or that it has a bunch more downforce (that's a stretch I think).

I would lean towards the gearing. Not to mention, the G35 revs about 300RPM higher, which means it can be geared a bit more aggressively.

[565]

I would lean towards the gearing. Not to mention, the G35 revs about 300RPM higher, which means it can be geared a bit more aggressively.

Wizard over at the other forum suggested two very reasonable reasons, being gearing and aerodynamics,  and I decided to look at both more closely.

Well in terms of aerodynamics it's the other way around actually.  I looked at this as the first possibility. The IS350 has a cd of .28 and the G35 has a cd of .29.  So if anything the IS350 should have a slight edge as speeds rise.  This isn't surprising as the Lexus is quite sleek and a bit smaller.\

As for gearing,
For the 100-120mph sprint both cars are in 4th gear. 

For the G35 4th is 1.27 with final of 3.69

For the IS350 4th is 1.00 with final of 4.08

Interestingly enough, for both cars 4th gear tops out at 125mph.   This is since the G35's slightly shorter overall gearing are offset by it's higher redline.  So for both cars 4th gear is almost identically optimized for this speed
Thus in terms of gearing from 100-120mph these cars are evenly matched.  The IS350 has the advantage in terms of aerodynamics. And yet here is where the G35 manages to pull a .8 second advantage over the IS350.  Clearly there is something interesting going on here.  Ram air effect of the G35 is very real.

[YO]

what were the TL numbers and why did they pick it over the G?...

[ro51092]

what were the TL numbers and why did they pick it over the G?...

I think they were, overall the slowest.

[TBR]

They were. And I am not sure why they picked it over the G35. Have to look at the ratings chart I guess.

[ro51092]

No matter what reason they give, I'd always take a G35 over the Accord er...TL. Shame they didn't let the Germans kick all their asses.

[YO]

No matter what reason they give, I'd always take a G35 over the Accord er...TL. Shame they didn't let the Germans kick all their asses.

Bring it on... sadly, in the majority of head to heads with the japs and germs, the only German that competes are the Beemers... the poor Benzes and Audi's sit at the bottom with the Volvos and Saabs of the world...

[TBR]

You keeping think that. I'd much rather have pretty much any entry-lux sedan over the TL.

[JYODER240]

I agree. Having driven a TL, even though its quick and handles well it's not much fun to drive.

[Raza]

I agree. Having driven a TL, even though its quick and handles well it's not much fun to drive.

It's quick, but it doesn't handle that well.  Even the TSX is a much nimbler, more fun car to drive, despite being slower.  You're giving it too much credit. 


EDIT:  And I'd still take my Passat over the TSX every day of the week.   :P

[JYODER240]

It's quick, but it doesn't handle that well.? Even the TSX is a much nimbler, more fun car to drive, despite being slower.? You're giving it too much credit.?


EDIT:? And I'd still take my Passat over the TSX every day of the week.? ?:P

Let me rephrase what I said. The TL generates alot of grip in the turns. Saying it handles well was a poor choice of words.

[sportyaccordy]

Let me rephrase what I said. The TL generates alot of grip in the turns. Saying it handles well was a poor choice of words.

Beyond grip, what in your opinion constitutes "good handling"? Because obviously you can slap some huge tires on any regular road car and generate good skidpad numbers. What does the TL lack that makes it a mediocre handler?

[JYODER240]

Beyond grip, what in your opinion constitutes "good handling"? Because obviously you can slap some huge tires on any regular road car and generate good skidpad numbers. What does the TL lack that makes it a mediocre handler?

There's alot more than skidpad numbers. How neutral it is, how predictably it breaks away, how easy it is to catch after it starts to slide, how composed it feels, steering feel, how well it can be placed on a racing line.  I didn't spend a ton of time in the TL but from what I remember the steering was to light, lacked feel, and was a little unprecise. It just wasn't very gratifying to drive at the limit.

[850CSi]

There's alot more than skidpad numbers. How neutral it is, how predictably it breaks away, how easy it is to catch after it starts to slide, how composed it feels, steering feel, how well it can be placed on a racing line.? I didn't spend a ton of time in the TL but from what I remember the steering was to light, lacked feel, and was a little unprecise. It just wasn't very gratifying to drive at the limit.

To add to that...
I've never driven it, but its weight is also very poorly distributed, so I wouldn't be surprised if it has "catastrophic understeer" . 6MT versions are also notoriously prone to torque steer. Let's face it - it's not easy to make a FWD car handle as well as an RWD equivalent, and few companies actually give it serious effort. The ones that do end up with good results (Peugeot, VW) or at least cars that suffer from disadvantages but are still relatively fun to drive (Saab, some Hondas). The TL does neither, or so I've heard. The TSX seems to be a far better effort dynamically.

[JYODER240]

The TL still has alot of understeer, inherent to FWD, but its better than most FWD layouts.

[ro51092]

Bring it on... sadly, in the majority of head to heads with the japs and germs, the only German that competes are the Beemers... the poor Benzes and Audi's sit at the bottom with the Volvos and Saabs of the world...

Yes, because that is the reason I replaced my lame TL with an A4. 

[TheIntrepid]

Yes, because that is the reason I replaced my lame TL with an A4. 

Nooooo Guju the TL is clearly the better car...

Honda Products > Any Other Products. Period.

[ro51092]

Nooooo Guju the TL is clearly the better car...

Honda BMW/Porsche Products > Any Other Products. Period.
[/quote

No joke. 

[TheIntrepid]

Of course ...whatever cooks your daal.