Missouri: Police Roadblock Harassment Caught on Tape

[Raza]

He posted his video on the officer.com forums some time ago

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=757533#post757533

If you read the thread he has an axe to grind with police in general.  There's really no point in my opinion here but I think he was baiting the police in a condescending tone.  Had he just been forthcoming and not evasive he would have been waved through like the rest of the sober people. 

If they had reason to believe he had been drinking, they'd have given him a breathalyzer or a field sobriety test.  Cops aren't gods, they don't get to ask questions that have answers that they have no right to know. 

But you already know what I think on the subject.  Specifically, I think these cops shouldn't even be working security.

[sportyaccordy]

I've found that just being courteous, calm and patient with cops, and human beings in general, is the best way to go.

[Raza]

I've found that just being courteous, calm and patient with cops, and human beings in general, is the best way to go.

Yeah, probably.

[J86]

I've found that just being courteous, calm and patient with cops, and human beings in general, is the best way to go.

You're right, and it's true.

HOWEVER:

Law enforcement officers need to both hold themselves and be held by society to a slightly higher standard.  I'm not advocating that they live saintly lives, that is both impossible and unfair.  However, when someone CHOOSES to go into a career path that gives them power over the vast majority of others, they become a de facto figure of authority and a role model.  No, people are not perfect, and yes, many of us would like to tell people off or give them a hard time when they make out working lives miserable, but as a law enforcement officer, you CANNOT do that.  Every single one of these incidents merely allows more people to perpetuate the stereotype of the asshole, ignorant cop.  True or not, and whether or not the kid 'had it coming', an LEO needs to take the higher road.  The same goes for teachers, for example.  Anybody who chooses to pursue a career which gives them power and authority needs to be held to a higher standard.

[Catman]

You're right, and it's true.

HOWEVER:

Law enforcement officers need to both hold themselves and be held by society to a slightly higher standard.  I'm not advocating that they live saintly lives, that is both impossible and unfair.  However, when someone CHOOSES to go into a career path that gives them power over the vast majority of others, they become a de facto figure of authority and a role model.  No, people are not perfect, and yes, many of us would like to tell people off or give them a hard time when they make out working lives miserable, but as a law enforcement officer, you CANNOT do that.  Every single one of these incidents merely allows more people to perpetuate the stereotype of the asshole, ignorant cop.  True or not, and whether or not the kid 'had it coming', an LEO needs to take the higher road.  The same goes for teachers, for example.  Anybody who chooses to pursue a career which gives them power and authority needs to be held to a higher standard.

I don't have a problem with what you wrote, in fact, I agree with it.  The only problem is you can act out that higher standard 99 out of 100 times but that one time you don't can get you in the shit.  That's the problem with being a victim of the human flaws, there's going to be occasions where you can't tow the line for one reason or another.  Unfortunately, that one time might be the one instance someone has come into personal contact with the police.  Those experiences can build an unbalanced and unreasonable stereotype of all police officers.  There's really no solution to this other than demanding professional standards on a consistent basis.  To our credit we've come a long way as a profession.  Sometimes it's easy to forget just how corrupt things used to be.  I can honestly say that although there may be a hiccup here and there people should be pretty proud of the job their police do day in and day out. 

[J86]

I don't have a problem with what you wrote, in fact, I agree with it.? The only problem is you can act out that higher standard 99 out of 100 times but that one time you don't can get you in the shit.?

Ain't that the truth!

That's the problem with being a victim of the human flaws, there's going to be occasions where you can't tow the line for one reason or another.? Unfortunately, that one time might be the one instance someone has come into personal contact with the police.? Those experiences can build an unbalanced and unreasonable stereotype of all police officers.? There's really no solution to this other than demanding professional standards on a consistent basis.? To our credit we've come a long way as a profession.? Sometimes it's easy to forget just how corrupt things used to be.? I can honestly say that although there may be a hiccup here and there people should be pretty proud of the job their police do day in and day out.?

Hey, if most of your fellows in your dept. have the same attitude you do, your town is in good shape!  Like our good friend Raza here, I don't think I need to reiterate my skepticism when dealing with certain figures of authority, but I must say, having you around to explain 'the other side' certainly is a good thing.

[Catman]

Ain't that the truth!

Hey, if most of your fellows in your dept. have the same attitude you do, your town is in good shape!  Like our good friend Raza here, I don't think I need to reiterate my skepticism when dealing with certain figures of authority, but I must say, having you around to explain 'the other side' certainly is a good thing.

[J86]

hehe

How'd ya handle noise complaints from rowdy college kids?

[Raghavan]

Sounds like the guy was looking for an argument, and it sounds like the cops were being idiots.

[IrishGuy]

I've never gotten stopped in a DUI checkpoint.  I think I'd be pretty nervous, even if I hadn't been drinking. 

I did one night after having a beer at my friend's work. The officer asked and I replied "yes sir, one beer." He then told me to have a good night.

I figure honesty is always the best way to handle these situations. If I said no and he could smell the beer I would have been inspected a bit closer.

[dazzleman]

I did one night after having a beer at my friend's work. The officer asked and I replied "yes sir, one beer." He then told me to have a good night.

I figure honesty is always the best way to handle these situations. If I said no and he could smell the beer I would have been inspected a bit closer.

"One beer" sounds a lot better than saying "a couple" or "a few."  Exactness implies certitude and is more believable, while vagueness implies that you're holding back information.

I've been lucky that in all the times I've been stopped, it was never after I had had even one drink.

[J86]

I've been stopped after having a couple at a BBQ, after a sail, etc.- but I've always had to say 'none'...

[dazzleman]

I've been stopped after having a couple at a BBQ, after a sail, etc.- but I've always had to say 'none'...

...is that because you're under 21, and therefore subjected to a much lower BAC threshold?

[J86]

...is that because you're under 21, and therefore subjected to a much lower BAC threshold?

Yup.  Not something I really want to get nailed for...

I assume the officers can tell pretty quickly that I'm not drunk...

[dazzleman]

Yup.? Not something I really want to get nailed for...

I assume the officers can tell pretty quickly that I'm not drunk...

I thought that you were drunk quite a bit, man.....

[rohan]

You're right, and it's true.

HOWEVER:

Law enforcement officers need to both hold themselves and be held by society to a slightly higher standard.? I'm not advocating that they live saintly lives, that is both impossible and unfair.? However, when someone CHOOSES to go into a career path that gives them power over the vast majority of others, they become a de facto figure of authority and a role model.? No, people are not perfect, and yes, many of us would like to tell people off or give them a hard time when they make out working lives miserable, but as a law enforcement officer, you CANNOT do that.? Every single one of these incidents merely allows more people to perpetuate the stereotype of the asshole, ignorant cop.? True or not, and whether or not the kid 'had it coming', an LEO needs to take the higher road.? The same goes for teachers, for example.? Anybody who chooses to pursue a career which gives them power and authority needs to be held to a higher standard.

Wrong.  You get nasty with me and I guarantee I will yell louder and 5times more profanely than you do.  I give what I get from people- treat me like shit and you're gonna get treated much worse.  And we aren't held to a higher standard than anyone else.  That's the liberal thought machine hard at work.  Facts are we are just human and only are required to live within the law.- like ANY citizen. 

[rohan]

If they had reason to believe he had been drinking, they'd have given him a breathalyzer or a field sobriety test.? Cops aren't gods, they don't get to ask questions that have answers that they have no right to know.?

But you already know what I think on the subject.? Specifically, I think these cops shouldn't even be working security.

Specifically - what did these cops do that was wrong and wouldn't allow them to work as security?  They also would n't have given anyone a "breathalyzer" on scene no cops carry a "breathalyzer" in their cars as far as I know.  AND- we can ask any questions we want to- freedom of speech and all.

[rohan]

I've been harassed before-
I was working late nights in summers of highschool, so one night I just went to a friend's house when we got off, watched a movie, then drove home, probably 2am-ish.? Cop follows me halfway across town (2 miles or so? ) then pulls me over.? Asks for the paperwork, asks if I'd been out to the gravel pits (outside town, near railroad tracks,) tongiht.? I said no, he says they had a report of a car like mine (only one in a town of 13000 people,) he runs my stuff and I go home..

(I HAD been offroading there a few nights prior...? )

Sorry but that wasn't harrassing you.  Being harrassed is when you get stopped repeatedly for minor or non-existing violations by particular officers.  It sounds to me like this guy did his job properly and you just didn't like it?  Not baiting you here - just wondering.

[rohan]

I've found that just being courteous, calm and patient with cops, and human beings in general, is the best way to go.

Every time.  Do this with me ^^^^ and you'll probably only get a small ticket or a warning. 

[J86]

Wrong.? You get nasty with me and I guarantee I will yell louder and 5times more profanely than you do.? I give what I get from people- treat me like shit and you're gonna get treated much worse.? And we aren't held to a higher standard than anyone else.? That's the liberal thought machine hard at work.? Facts are we are just human and only are required to live within the law.- like ANY citizen.?

That's terrible.  With great power comes great responsibility...

[rohan]

That's terrible.? With great power comes great responsibility...

LOL- what part?     You actually made me laugh even if you didn't mean to. 

I have a saying to counter yours-
Walk a mile in a mans shoes before you judge him.

[J86]

LOL- what part?? ?? You actually made me laugh even if you didn't mean to.?

I have a saying to counter yours-
Walk a mile in a mans shoes before you judge him.

Which is all well and good, and I agree with you.  But the point I made earlier still stands: if someone chooses to perform a job that places them in a position of authority, they have a responsibility to operate on as high a standard as they can muster.  As a cop, you're a role model. 

[J86]

I thought that you were drunk quite a bit, man.....

When I'm THAT drunk, I just crash on the boat

[rohan]

Which is all well and good, and I agree with you.? But the point I made earlier still stands: if someone chooses to perform a job that places them in a position of authority, they have a responsibility to operate on as high a standard as they can muster.? As a cop, you're a role model.?

Fair enough to the last sentence.? I'm not a role model- I'm a government employee.? I don't know anyone who accepts that role model stuff ----or even who would consider bitter worn out run down over worked under staffed under equipped 39 year old who has never done anything more than be a cop for a role model?? I don't even consider myself a rolemodel for me!!!!

[J86]

Fair enough to the last sentence.? I'm not a role model- I'm a government employee.? I don't know anyone who accepts that role model stuff ----or even who would consider bitter worn out run down over worked under staffed under equipped 37 year old who has never done anything more than be a cop for a role model?? I don't even consider myself a rolemodel for me!!!!

When kids are little (before we become nasty, cynical college students such as myself), they look up to cops, want to be cops, etc.  You're in a position of authority, and as such command the public respect.  I'm of the opinion that, due to the power police command, they ought to try and set a positive example.

[rohan]

When kids are little (before we become nasty, cynical college students such as myself), they look up to cops, want to be cops, etc.? You're in a position of authority, and as such command the public respect.? I'm of the opinion that, due to the power police command, they ought to try and set a positive example.

That's pretty hard to do when people come walking into a store you happend to be standing in and they say"Better behave or I'm gonna have that cop drag you away."  Or "See that man he takes people to jail."  People teach their kids to disrespect us and think of us as the boogeyman more than to respect and admire us.   It's a rare thing when someone actually tells their kids "See that man- he's your friend"  in fact so rare I don't remember hearing anyone say it.  So I gotta respectfully disagree- we're not looked up to by most kids we're feared.

[J86]

That's pretty hard to do when people come walking into a store you happend to be standing in and they say"Better behave or I'm gonna have that cop drag you away."? Or "See that man he takes people to jail."? People teach their kids to disrespect us and think of us as the boogeyman more than to respect and admire us.? ?It's a rare thing when someone actually tells their kids "See that man- he's your friend"? in fact so rare I don't remember hearing anyone say it.? So I gotta respectfully disagree- we're not looked up to by most kids we're feared.

That's really too bad.  I guess gotta work to change the public perception...never said it'd be easy!

[Raza]

I did one night after having a beer at my friend's work. The officer asked and I replied "yes sir, one beer." He then told me to have a good night.

I figure honesty is always the best way to handle these situations. If I said no and he could smell the beer I would have been inspected a bit closer.

Best is to lie, and make sure he can't smell anything on you.  If you say one beer, you've admitted to drinking, and he can test you further if he wants to see if you're lying.  If you are lying, then you're fucked. 

[Raza]

That's really too bad.  I guess gotta work to change the public perception...never said it'd be easy!

Public perception of the police doesn't even need parents to mar it.  All it takes is watching the news for a while.  So many reports of brutality, so many actual encounters with cops that are dicks; that's all it takes.  There may be one asshole cop out there for every 10, but it's the asshole that sticks out in your mind.  Distrust of the police, just like that of politicians, is not only prudent, but also the only advisable course of action. 

Take the cops on this board.  They all seem to be great guys.  Does that mean I'm going to stop looking sideways at every cop I see on the street?  Nope.  Never.  If you've got a badge, I don't trust you.

[omicron]

When I was 7, I rode in a police car.

It was fun fun.