Missouri: Police Roadblock Harassment Caught on Tape

[BRealistic]

Missouri: Police Roadblock Harassment Caught on Tape

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/15/1522.asp

St. Louis County, Missouri threaten to arrest a teenager for refusing to discuss his personal travel plans.


A teenager harassed
by police in St. Louis, Missouri caught the incident on tape. Brett
Darrow, 19, had his video camera rolling last month as he drove his
1997 Maxima, minding his own business. He approached a drunk driving
roadblock where he was stopped, detained and threatened with arrest
when he declined to enter a conversation with a police officer about
his personal travel habits. Now Darrow is considering filing suit
against St. Louis County Police.

"I'm scared to drive for fear
of being stopped at another checkpoint and arrested while doing nothing
illegal," Darrow told TheNewspaper. "We're now guilty until we prove
ourselves innocent to these checkpoint officers."

On that late
November night, videotape confirms that Darrow had been ordered out of
his vehicle after telling a policeman, "I don't wish to discuss my
personal life with you, officer." Another officer attempted to move
Darrow's car until he realized, "I can't drive stick!" The officer took
the opportunity to undertake a thorough search of the interior without
probable cause. He found nothing.

When Darrow asked why he was
being detained, an officer explained, "If you don't stop running your
mouth, we're going to find a reason to lock you up tonight."

The
threats ended when Darrow informed officers that they were being
recorded. After speaking to a supervisor Darrow was finally released.

"These
roadblocks have gotten out of hand," Darrow told TheNewspaper. "If we
don't do something about them now, it'll be too late."


(see link for transcript of video)

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Do you think this kid was being rude and deserved to be harassed, or do you think the cops were in the wrong?

[dazzleman]

I hesitate to make a judgment without seeing the tape.

Still, I don't think this man was obligated to discuss his travel plans with the police.  I assume they gave him the 'where are you coming from?' and/or 'where are you going?' questions that they sometimes give.

I understand that they're sometimes just trying to initiate conversation to judge sobriety.  But they should have just proceeded with the sobriety tests if he didn't want to answer their questions.

The cops were probably on a power trip.

[TurboDan]

I agree with Dave.  They ask those questions to detect sobriety - both in speech pattern and the smell of alcohol on the person's breath. 

I haven't see the video, but from the transcript, it's not looking good for the officers involved.  In the statement that he "didn't want to discuss his personal life," you could tell as much as you could if he said "I'm on my way home" or something. 

This part was interesting:

Brett: Why am I being detained officer? (directed toward Officer #4)
Officer #4: You better stop runnin your mouth or the other officer will find a reason to lock you up tonight.

That almost amounts to a threat of planting evidence or making up a bogus charge to unlawfully imprison someone.  That's one of the parts where it really shows the officers in a bad light.

This one also was pretty badL

Brett: Am I being detained?
Officer #4: Yes you are!
Brett: May I leave?
Officer #4: No, you may not.
Brett: Why am I being detained?
Officer #4: Because you don't have a driver's license.
Brett: I do have a driver's license. I gave it to the other officer.
Officer #4: When the other officer comes back--When he comes back--When he comes back you can talk to him about it.
Brett: Why are you saying I don't have my license?
Officer #4: Nineteen years old and you know everything.
Brett: Yes sir.

I've always been one of the people that wasn't crazy about the idea of people videotaping police activity, because it could always be framed one way or another.  But, if the transcripts hold true, I don't see how there couldn't be some type of penalty against the officers for this.  Now, a lawsuit about being "afraid to drive" seems a bit bogus, but some of the statements by the officers at the scene were inappropriate, at least.

I've always found it interesting to see how different departments treat people differently because of department culture.  In my experience, there are some towns where the PDs have friendly relationships with the community, and others where the relationship is adversarial - treating citizens more like potential suspects than neighbors. 

Near where I now live in NJ, there are two towns right next to each other - humorously, one is "Brick Township" and one is "Wall Township."  Brick Township, in 2006, was ranked as the safest city in America in the FBI uniform crime report for its population (around 70,000).  The police in Brick Township are known in Central NJ as being one of the friendliest, respectful, and at the same time, effective departments.  They have a minimalist focus on organized traffic citation traps, but usually patrol the major thoroughfares through the town and keep an eye out for drunk drivers.  They don't "harass" younger people, and actually do everything they can to help the kids of the town.  Their marine unit is also top notch.  I've had the opportunity to meet several of the guys there.  Honestly, I've never heard a single complaint. 

Literally minutes away is Wall Township.  In Wall Township, the department uses "stealthy" colored vehicles, including a few Camaros (even though only one highway is located the town, for a few blocks), routinely has their officers hiding out in crevices, and behind signs in traffic circles.   Their officers are not known to engage anyone in conversation, and they are outfitted with cowboy hats and sunglasses with an imposing gray uniform rather than the usual blues.  They consistently and (from what I've heard) unfairly target young people.  A family member in high school once told me a story of an incident in this town:

He's making a left turn, waiting at a red light.  The light changes to green.  Across from him is a police car that has no turn signal on, and therefore has the right of way.  The police car simply stays there after the light turns green.  So he waits, and waits, and waits.  Finally, the police car crosses the intersection, pulls a U-Turn, and starts the light show.  The officer doesn't say anything, just asks for license and reg.  As he's handing over his license, he asks why he's being pulled over.  The officer responds - "blocking an intersection." 

He (obviously) received no citation, because he had done nothing wrong. 

These sneaky tactics used by the second department only ratchet up ill feeling towards law enforcement.  The town next door was ranked the safest city in the nation, and doesn't use them.  It's one thing to police effectively, but another to have an attitude that "everyone's a suspect, especially if they dare to drive an older car late at night." 

Funny how two departments, 5 minutes away from each other, have such different feelings towards everything.

[dazzleman]

I'm usually inclined to defend the police because I think so many guilty people try to get off by falsely accusing the police of 'abusing' them when they're really just doing their jobs.

I also recognize that the police couldn't really do their jobs effectively if they always went strictly by the book.  Sometimes, rules have to be bent for the greater good of society.  It's naive not to recognize this.

But I do have a problem when a certain line is crossed.  Threatening to manufacture evidence that will put somebody in jail when they're innocent definitely crosses that line.

Dan, have you ever heard of the Palisades Park Police?  They have a pretty bad reputation, and I know a guy who claims to have been entrapped by one of them on the Palisades Parkway.  He was in an unmarked car, and got behind him and started tailgating, flashing his lights, driving crazy, etc.  When the guy I know then sped up to get away from him, he ended up pulling him over and writing him 5 tickets for speeding, unsafe lane changes, etc.  I don't know how much of the story to believe, because the guy telling it to me is no choir boy.

The best part though is that this same officer has now been dismissed from the force because he was going into Palisades Park and enticing gay men to expose themselves to him, and then arresting them.  Apparently, that park is an 'encounter' place for gay men, and he was leading these men to believe that they were going to have a sexual liaison.

[BRealistic]

Dan, have you ever heard of the Palisades Park Police?  They have a pretty bad reputation, and I know a guy who claims to have been entrapped by one of them on the Palisades Parkway.  He was in an unmarked car, and got behind him and started tailgating, flashing his lights, driving crazy, etc.  When the guy I know then sped up to get away from him, he ended up pulling him over and writing him 5 tickets for speeding, unsafe lane changes, etc.  I don't know how much of the story to believe, because the guy telling it to me is no choir boy.

That's the problem with getting a story- there are always at least three sides to every story- his side, the other guy's side, and the truth.

And that would have been a great situation to have a video camera going.

Speaking of that- I have a mini digital camera. Hmm, I should put it in the car for tonight.

[TurboDan]

Dan, have you ever heard of the Palisades Park Police?  They have a pretty bad reputation, and I know a guy who claims to have been entrapped by one of them on the Palisades Parkway.  He was in an unmarked car, and got behind him and started tailgating, flashing his lights, driving crazy, etc.  When the guy I know then sped up to get away from him, he ended up pulling him over and writing him 5 tickets for speeding, unsafe lane changes, etc.  I don't know how much of the story to believe, because the guy telling it to me is no choir boy.

Never heard anything about that department, but I saw something similar on the Garden State Parkway. 

I was in the right lane, and a marked NJSP car came flying down the highway at 100MPH-plus (no lights or sirens) and weaved in and out of lanes a few times trying to get through the heavy traffic.  At one point, the car got behind a guy who was stuck in the left lane.  NOBODY would let him move to the right at all.  Finally, with the NJSP car within inches of his bumper, he sped up, got around all of the cars and moved to the right lane.  The NJSP car then practically hit three people to move behind him.  At that point, the NJSP car tailed the poor bastard for a few minutes before moving in for the kill.

[Atomic]

I hesitate to make a judgment without seeing the tape.

Still, I don't think this man was obligated to discuss his travel plans with the police.? I assume they gave him the 'where are you coming from?' and/or 'where are you going?' questions that they sometimes give.

I understand that they're sometimes just trying to initiate conversation to judge sobriety.? But they should have just proceeded with the sobriety tests if he didn't want to answer their questions.

The cops were probably on a power trip.

i could not have said it better myself!

catman, you've been quiet! your thoughts, man  ?!

[Catman]

He posted his video on the officer.com forums some time ago

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=757533#post757533

If you read the thread he has an axe to grind with police in general.  There's really no point in my opinion here but I think he was baiting the police in a condescending tone.  Had he just been forthcoming and not evasive he would have been waved through like the rest of the sober people. 

[93JC]

Sketchy guy. I'd keep asking him questions if I was in the position of the police officer. I mean, "I don't want to talk about my personal life with you, officer"? Way to be as obtuse and evasive as possible...

I agree, if he'd just said "I'm on my way home", "I'm going to get something to eat"... anything... he probably would have just be flagged through.

It's also suspicious that he had the camera on. Just what was he doing? The posts on officer.com really do suggest he's out to 'get' the cops. It all seems so staged and premeditated.

That said, the cops didn't help themselves by being jackasses about it.



Not nearly as entertaining a video as the punk UCLA student who was tasered.

[dazzleman]

It's also suspicious that he had the camera on. Just what was he doing?

Why is that suspicious?  I drive around with a camera on all the time....

What probably happened is that they didn't like this kid's attitude, so they decided to bust his balls a little bit.  The problem was that he seems to have gone by the book, while they didn't, and they got caught on camera.

My guess is that Catman is right, and if he'd just said anything sensible in response to their questions, he'd have been waived through.  The camera being on in advance suggests he was looking for a confrontation.

Still, the officers should have been more careful in how they handled him, so as not to bring problems on themselves.

[Catman]

Why is that suspicious?  I drive around with a camera on all the time....

What probably happened is that they didn't like this kid's attitude, so they decided to bust his balls a little bit.  The problem was that he seems to have gone by the book, while they didn't, and they got caught on camera.

My guess is that Catman is right, and if he'd just said anything sensible in response to their questions, he'd have been waived through.  The camera being on in advance suggests he was looking for a confrontation.

Still, the officers should have been more careful in how they handled him, so as not to bring problems on themselves.

Cops. like most people don't appreciate smart asses.  That being said, I've had a lot of run ins with people like him.  Some I've handled professionally and some I've handled worse than what you see here.  Looking back, I think it's the professional way that is the way to go of course.  Where I've lost my cool it always seems to be some jerk questioning my integrity.  I had one guy (of many) who I got on radar on a secondary road.  Posted was 30 and he was going at least 45 or I wouldn't have stopped him.  I pulled out behind him and waited a bit before stopping him since we were on a dangerous curve with an intersection right after it.  After he turned right I waited a bit for the road to straighten out and stopped him. 

Before I even exited my car he had his head hanging out of his window.  "Why the hell are you stopping me?"  So I explain that I had him on radar at XXmph in an XXmpz zone.  "Where?", he asks, in a rude tone.  So, I tell him where and starts going on about how I'm not allowed to follow people that far before stopping them, etc.  At that point I had enough and asked him how he would like me going to his work and telling him how to do his job.  Then I called him an asshole, went back to my cruiser and wrote him the biggest ticket I could.  Because I believe in police integrity I wrote him for the exact speed I stopped him for.  If I were the bad guy he would like me to be I would have put my fist through his face, dragged him out of the car by his ears, arrested him for disorderly conduct and slapped the ticket on him as a bonus. :P  Even though I realize my words were unprofessional, the bottom line is that these people would be dead if the police were half as corrupt as they think we are.

Some day maybe I'll tell the story about me smashing a kids drivers door window (not on purpose). :P

[ifcar]

"Some day maybe I'll tell the story about me smashing a kids drivers door window (not on purpose)."

How does today sound?

[Catman]

"Some day maybe I'll tell the story about me smashing a kids drivers door window (not on purpose)."

How does today sound?

Can I wait till I retire?

[sparkplug]

Can I wait till I retire?

You know if you hit something just right like that window it'll bust on you whether you want it to or not. How many more ions of years before you retire.

[Catman]

You know if you hit something just right like that window it'll bust on you whether you want it to or not. How many more ions of years before you retire.

17 years.

[GoCougs]

Why spend one's free time baiting the police? Surely their are better pastimes out there.

[dazzleman]

Why spend one's free time baiting the police? Surely their are better pastimes out there.

Well, he's now suing for the terrible 'trauma' that he suffered from that traffic stop....   Get the idea?

As usual, the more I hear, the more I side with the police.  The officers didn't handle it perfectly, but this kid was not an innocent victim either.

[dazzleman]

Cops. like most people don't appreciate smart asses.? That being said, I've had a lot of run ins with people like him.? Some I've handled professionally and some I've handled worse than what you see here.? Looking back, I think it's the professional way that is the way to go of course.? Where I've lost my cool it always seems to be some jerk questioning my integrity.? I had one guy (of many) who I got on radar on a secondary road.? Posted was 30 and he was going at least 45 or I wouldn't have stopped him.? I pulled out behind him and waited a bit before stopping him since we were on a dangerous curve with an intersection right after it.? After he turned right I waited a bit for the road to straighten out and stopped him.?

Before I even exited my car he had his head hanging out of his window.? "Why the hell are you stopping me?"? So I explain that I had him on radar at XXmph in an XXmpz zone.? "Where?", he asks, in a rude tone.? So, I tell him where and starts going on about how I'm not allowed to follow people that far before stopping them, etc.? At that point I had enough and asked him how he would like me going to his work and telling him how to do his job.? Then I called him an asshole, went back to my cruiser and wrote him the biggest ticket I could.? Because I believe in police integrity I wrote him for the exact speed I stopped him for.? If I were the bad guy he would like me to be I would have put my fist through his face, dragged him out of the car by his ears, arrested him for disorderly conduct and slapped the ticket on him as a bonus. :P? Even though I realize my words were unprofessional, the bottom line is that these people would be dead if the police were half as corrupt as they think we are.

Some day maybe I'll tell the story about me smashing a kids drivers door window (not on purpose). :P

It's always the people who are most guilty who become most indignant when somebody blows the whistle on them.? I don't have a lot of tolerance for people like that, and if they get a little rough treatment from an LEO, I'm not terribly sympathetic.  Most of the time, LEOs are very restrained in the face of extreme provocation, though it would be naive not to recognize that there are some out there who go on power trips. 

Still, I think you're generally right Greg.  Most of the time, people who provoke the police don't really get knocked around the way they could be.  The bottom line for me is -- who do I think is a greater threat to society?  The police or the people who complain loudest about them?  I think you know the answer to that one...

I've never gotten stopped in a DUI checkpoint.? I think I'd be pretty nervous, even if I hadn't been drinking.? But I know I'd just politely answer the officer's questions.? As far as being stopped for speeding goes, well of course that's happened a few times as you know.... ? But I've never had an officer ask me where I'm going, or even if I knew my speed.? So far, they've just asked for my paperwork, told me how fast they clocked me at, and told me to wait in my car while they write up my ticket.? Pretty standard stuff, no broken windows or cursing.... ? I could even tell that one cop who ticketed me even felt a little sorry for doing it; when he handed me the ticket, he said, "Drive carefully, Dave" in a friendly way, like he was a big brother who was being forced to admonish me in a friendly way, but regretted having to do it.? I can't have any complaint about my own run-ins with LEOs, though of course my experience hasn't been too broad...

[rohan]

He's not gonna win cuz jury's don't like smart asses either.? He's telling the supervisor that the officers burned up his clutch because they stalled it a couple of times and he can see the smoke.? He went looking for a problem and he found one.? Asking those questions is paramount in building a drunk driving case-

was his speech slurred- was it thick toungued- was it slow did he struggle to find words- did he salivate more than normal- odor of intoxicants- did he make any unusual statements about alcohol- where has he been- was he sweating- was he glassy eyed- were his eyes red and bloodshot- how did his eyes move (horizontal gaze nastagmus)- did he have trouble forming sentences- did he have to think about what he was going to say- did he have cotton mouth- how did his clothes appear / were they disheveled- had he urinated on himself- was he unusually dirty- was he unbuckled- what was his seat position in the car

These are all things we look for when doing the initial interview.? And there is nothing immoral illegal or unethical about threatening someone with jail for being evasive and not answering legal questions- usually it straightens up a smartass like this kid.? This 19 year old kid was asking why there was a k-9 at a DUI checkpoint and making a big deal out of it like there was no reason on the planet to have a k-9 there like he knew what he was talking about.? I didn't hear ANY improper remarks by the officers- but we couldn't hear everything they said.? Or everything he said either- which he knew- which makes me believe he baited them when they were out of earshot.? And I saw NO repeat NO search of the car.? Yeah the officer looked around a little with his light but he's allowed to under search and seizure rule "Plain sight."? (but I didn't watch to the very end either- i watched to about 13:59)

Bottom line is this kid probably got a DUI or a ticket and he was trying to get revenge.? This won't go anywhere because the officers did exactly what they were supposed to do- stupid kid.? But I don't like checkpoints- because we can't have them here!

[rohan]

Some day maybe I'll tell the story about me smashing a kids drivers door window (not on purpose). :P

Isn't that great!!!?? 

"Sir you have a warrant for your arrest step out of the car please."

"eff you."  (rolls up window)

"Sir your last warning step from the car."

"eff you"

smash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

drag through window!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Sometimes its fun to be a cop!

[Catman]

Isn't that great!!!?? 

"Sir you have a warrant for your arrest step out of the car please."

"eff you."  (rolls up window)

"Sir your last warning step from the car."

"eff you"

smash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

drag through window!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Sometimes its fun to be a cop!

Not exactly but yeah, I've done that too. :P

[dazzleman]

He's not gonna win cuz jury's don't like smart asses either.? He's telling the supervisor that the officers burned up his clutch because they stalled it a couple of times and he can see the smoke.? He went looking for a problem and he found one.? Asking those questions is paramount in building a drunk driving case-

was his speech slurred- was it thick toungued- was it slow did he struggle to find words- did he salivate more than normal- odor of intoxicants- did he make any unusual statements about alcohol- where has he been- was he sweating- was he glassy eyed- were his eyes red and bloodshot- how did his eyes move (horizontal gaze nastagmus)- did he have trouble forming sentences- did he have to think about what he was going to say- did he have cotton mouth- how did his clothes appear / were they disheveled- had he urinated on himself- was he unusually dirty- was he unbuckled- what was his seat position in the car

These are all things we look for when doing the initial interview.? And there is nothing immoral illegal or unethical about threatening someone with jail for being evasive and not answering legal questions- usually it straightens up a smartass like this kid.? This 19 year old kid was asking why there was a k-9 at a DUI checkpoint and making a big deal out of it like there was no reason on the planet to have a k-9 there like he knew what he was talking about.? I didn't hear ANY improper remarks by the officers- but we couldn't hear everything they said.? Or everything he said either- which he knew- which makes me believe he baited them when they were out of earshot.? And I saw NO repeat NO search of the car.? Yeah the officer looked around a little with his light but he's allowed to under search and seizure rule "Plain sight."? (but I didn't watch to the very end either- i watched to about 13:59)

Bottom line is this kid probably got a DUI or a ticket and he was trying to get revenge.? This won't go anywhere because the officers did exactly what they were supposed to do- stupid kid.? But I don't like checkpoints- because we can't have them here!

It depends on who's on the jury.  An OJ jury would award him millions.

[rohan]

It depends on who's on the jury.? An OJ jury would award him millions.

Your right about that. 

[BRealistic]

He posted his video on the officer.com forums some time ago

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=757533#post757533

If you read the thread he has an axe to grind with police in general.  There's really no point in my opinion here but I think he was baiting the police in a condescending tone.  Had he just been forthcoming and not evasive he would have been waved through like the rest of the sober people. 

Thanks for the link Cat. I posted that link with the video link given there at the forum I originally found this story. It was very much appreciated.

[Catman]

No problem, that was easy.

[TurboDan]

Yeah, I hope my post wasn't seen as a defense of this kid!  He definitely sounded like a smartass.  I don't blame the cops one bit for scaring the kid for a minute or talking tough.  It was that comment that could be construed as a threat to manufacture evidence that wasn't appropriate, IMO. 

I've never come across a checkpoint myself, but I would think a K9 unit would be par for the course.  I'm sure alot of the same folks who drive drunk might also have been enjoying a few other illegal substances.  It would also be a good opportunity to make some busts. 

I also doubt that the officer damaged his car.  What can moving a car a few feet from the pavement to the side do to a clutch, anyway?  And the "being afraid to drive" story is absolutely bogus.  He didn't even get a ticket! We've all heard Dave's story about getting his ticket and then receiving an identical one five minutes later. 

[dazzleman]

And the "being afraid to drive" story is absolutely bogus.? He didn't even get a ticket! We've all heard Dave's story about getting his ticket and then receiving an identical one five minutes later.?

Hah!? It was ten minutes, actually.? ? Get the details right, Dan.? ? And I'm still speeding....

Seriously, I agree that the 'afraid to drive' thing is pure unadulterated bullshit.? If he was that scared by that encounter with the cops, he needs to grow a cock and balls in place of his pussy.  

I'd be embarrassed to admit that an encounter with the police, which didn't even result in any type of citation, scared me that much, even if it were true.  Hell, I'd be embarrassed to admit to be that afraid from an encounter with the police, even if it resulted in my being locked up.  That claim that this guy is making is truly pathetic.

[nickdrinkwater]

The kid might've been trying to wind them up, but they didn't need to act the way they did.

Had to laugh at the cops not being able to drive a manual 

[AutobahnSHO]

I've been harassed before-
I was working late nights in summers of highschool, so one night I just went to a friend's house when we got off, watched a movie, then drove home, probably 2am-ish.  Cop follows me halfway across town (2 miles or so  ) then pulls me over.  Asks for the paperwork, asks if I'd been out to the gravel pits (outside town, near railroad tracks,) tongiht.  I said no, he says they had a report of a car like mine (only one in a town of 13000 people,) he runs my stuff and I go home..

(I HAD been offroading there a few nights prior...  )

[S204STi]

I don't see how the kid just happened by coincidence to be rolling tape as he came up on a DUI checkpoint.  I think he was intentionally baiting the officers, and if this kind of entrapment by police is frowned upon why should this little bastard get away with it?