Official 2008 Lexus IS-F Pictures

[Raza]

All patronizing comments aside, I think that there are others out there who feel similar.  Perhaps you don't have to deal with traffic congestion, but with my job being in Seattle, it's a daily reality for me.  While I can definitely see the fun with the traditional 3-pedal arrangement, it doesn't outweigh the practicality that a high-performance automatic transmission can provide.  If I was to choose a between a traditional 6-speed manual or the 8-speed automatic on the Lexus IS-F, it would be the automatic, hands down.  Unless, I was filthy rich, and could afford two, which in that case, I could buy one of each.

As to your analogy, there's a saying "Never assume as it can make an ass out of u and me."  I can drive sticks fine, it's just not my preference in day-to-day driving.  Understood?

I wasn't assuming that you didn't know how to drive a stick, actually, I was almost sure that you did.  The point was that a clip on tie may do the same job as real tie, but that doesn't make it a real tie.

[r0tor]

Lexus falls down when it comes to making cars that are fun to drive. I don't expect the IS-F to be much different relative to the competition. I think Lexus cares more about making the car look better than the competition when it comes to the stats and not the driving experience.

Lexus never made a model directed specifically at enthusiasts... i think its absurd to judge the car based on its luxury relatives

[JYODER240]

Lexus never made a model directed specifically at enthusiasts... i think its absurd to judge the car based on its luxury relatives

But they market their cars as high-performance.

[AudiMan2001]

I wasn't assuming that you didn't know how to drive a stick, actually, I was almost sure that you did.  The point was that a clip on tie may do the same job as real tie, but that doesn't make it a real tie.

If they're made out of the same material for the same purpose, then technically a clip-on is as a real tie as a necktie.

[cawimmer430]

But they market their cars as high-performance.

And people actually fall for it. 

Most Lexus fans I know believe the hype that the IS is a 3-Series killer. The IS is a poser car in the sports department, especially the IS350. It might be fast but the lack of a manual and inferior handling over the 3-Series make it a poser car in this class. It's better off competing agaist the W203 C-Class since both of these cars are heavily biased towards luxury and less sport IMO.

Can't wait for the W204 reviews. Kick the gussied up Toyota's a$$ please! 

[Raza]

If they're made out of the same material for the same purpose, then technically a clip-on is as a real tie as a necktie.

And a custom Hugo Boss suit is the same as something off the rack at Target?

[thewizard16]

And people actually fall for it.

Most Lexus fans I know believe the hype that the IS is a 3-Series killer. The IS is a poser car in the sports department, especially the IS350. It might be fast but the lack of a manual and inferior handling over the 3-Series make it a poser car in this class. It's better off competing agaist the W203 C-Class since both of these cars are heavily biased towards luxury and less sport IMO.

Can't wait for the W204 reviews. Kick the gussied up Toyota's a$$ please!

That seems unlikely. I like the new C, but I don't see it trying to play the same game as the Lexus or BMW. I think it'd be more successful just going the straight-up luxury route instead of trying to be a 3-series. I just can't see them trying to play the power game with the Lexus either, and if they did, it'd be so much more expensive it wouldn't matter. What's annoying is the Lexus could do exactly what it set out to do- go head to head with the 3-series, IF only they'd put a manual in it and stop trying to make the car drive itself. It's a nice enough car, and it's certainly quick, but they still seem not to "get it".

[cawimmer430]

That seems unlikely. I like the new C, but I don't see it trying to play the same game as the Lexus or BMW. I think it'd be more successful just going the straight-up luxury route instead of trying to be a 3-series. I just can't see them trying to play the power game with the Lexus either, and if they did, it'd be so much more expensive it wouldn't matter. What's annoying is the Lexus could do exactly what it set out to do- go head to head with the 3-series, IF only they'd put a manual in it and stop trying to make the car drive itself. It's a nice enough car, and it's certainly quick, but they still seem not to "get it".

The new W204 C-Class will offer more sport and be more serious about it too, but it will still be biased towards luxury. 

I'm just annoyed that they removed the 6-speed manual option for the C350. The W203 C350 had a big PLUS over the Lexus IS350 in that regard.

[ro51092]

What's the torque like on this?

[cawimmer430]

What's the torque like on this?

What torque? 

[thewizard16]

What torque?

After a while, it's not even amusing. Anyway, what is he asking about on the torque issue? The IS-F will have 350 as stated on the first page of the thread... The Mercedes hasn't been announced yet, though I found a page that reports there will be a 400-410hp AMG version of the new C to compete with the RS4 and future M3.... The ultra-quick small lux market is getting a bit more populated.

[TheIntrepid]

After a while, it's not even amusing.

[AudiMan2001]

And a custom Hugo Boss suit is the same as something off the rack at Target?

Same in what manner?  Material?  Not likely.  Quality?  Definitely not.  Craftsmanship?  Nope.  Are they both suits? Yep.  Do people where both for the same purpose?  In most cases, yes.

[Raza]

Same in what manner?  Material?  Not likely.  Quality?  Definitely not.  Craftsmanship?  Nope.  Are they both suits? Yep.  Do people where both for the same purpose?  In most cases, yes.

Okay, I'm extending the analogy too far; I should have stuck with ties.  The point is, if you know how to tie a tie, why would you still wear a clip on? 

[cawimmer430]

After a while, it's not even amusing. Anyway, what is he asking about on the torque issue? The IS-F will have 350 as stated on the first page of the thread... The Mercedes hasn't been announced yet, though I found a page that reports there will be a 400-410hp AMG version of the new C to compete with the RS4 and future M3.... The ultra-quick small lux market is getting a bit more populated.

I just love making fun of the IS-F, partly because I find the body kit very RICEish.  

[thewizard16]

I just love making fun of the IS-F, partly because I find the body kit very RICEish.

Oh the kit makes it look terrible, I completely agree, but it's a nice car mechanically. Very nice. It's a shame the people at Lexus can't figure out how to make it look more aggressive without looking like it's owned by a 16 year old with too much money and bad taste. It's also a shame they won't put a manual in it and give their VDIM or whatever it's called an off-switch. I don't disagree that Lexus screwed up, I just get weary of people saying the same annoying things over and over again. It's not really you, because I know you're having fun, I just get grumpy.

[Raza]

Oh the kit makes it look terrible, I completely agree, but it's a nice car mechanically. Very nice. It's a shame the people at Lexus can't figure out how to make it look more aggressive without looking like it's owned by a 16 year old with too much money and bad taste. It's also a shame they won't put a manual in it and give their VDIM or whatever it's called an off-switch. I don't disagree that Lexus screwed up, I just get weary of people saying the same annoying things over and over again. It's not really you, because I know you're having fun, I just get grumpy.

Toyota has never really gotten the hang of styling a car all too well.  Some nice designs, but not too many pretty styling exercises. 

[AudiMan2001]

Okay, I'm extending the analogy too far; I should have stuck with ties.  The point is, if you know how to tie a tie, why would you still wear a clip on? 

If the clip-on has an interesting design that I really like and fits with a certain outfit, I wouldn't stop wearing it.

[Raza]

If the clip-on has an interesting design that I really like and fits with a certain outfit, I wouldn't stop wearing it.

Alright, your call.

[Raghavan]

I still can't get over the negative wheel well spacing in the back.

[cawimmer430]

Oh the kit makes it look terrible, I completely agree, but it's a nice car mechanically. Very nice. It's a shame the people at Lexus can't figure out how to make it look more aggressive without looking like it's owned by a 16 year old with too much money and bad taste. It's also a shame they won't put a manual in it and give their VDIM or whatever it's called an off-switch. I don't disagree that Lexus screwed up, I just get weary of people saying the same annoying things over and over again. It's not really you, because I know you're having fun, I just get grumpy.

One reason I also like to bash Lexus and this car is because of their fanboys. From what I read at the ClubLexus forums, most of these Lexus fans seem to think that Lexus "will rule the world" just because they've done so well in the US market. With the IS-F, they claim that it will "outhandle the BMW M3 etc. and be more fun to drive". I want to smash the heads of these people against a wall. Like this ------> 

[AudiMan2001]

Alright, your call.

You still didn't explain how this applies to the manual transmission debate.

[Raza]

You still didn't explain how this applies to the manual transmission debate.

Do I need to?  I thought it was rather obvious.

[thewizard16]

One reason I also like to bash Lexus and this car is because of their fanboys. From what I read at the ClubLexus forums, most of these Lexus fans seem to think that Lexus "will rule the world" just because they've done so well in the US market. With the IS-F, they claim that it will "outhandle the BMW M3 etc. and be more fun to drive". I want to smash the heads of these people against a wall. Like this ------>

I dislike fanboys of all companies, and avoid reading their posts. It's much nicer to read reasonable opinions and realistic statements about the cars instead of listening to someone explain how it's the most impressive thing since electricity.

[AudiMan2001]

Do I need to?  I thought it was rather obvious.

Obvious how?  You responded to my points asking me if I know how to tie a (neck)tie, and don't see the relevance of the question.

[BimmerM3]

Obvious how?  You responded to my points asking me if I know how to tie a (neck)tie, and don't see the relevance of the question.

It's a metaphor. I'll let you figure the rest out... if you still claim you can't, then I think you're just being argumentative simply for the sake of the argument.

Anyway, the way that I like to put it is that just because a car has an automatic transmission does not make it a bad or boring car. However, I personally think that any car can potentially be fun with a manual.

[AudiMan2001]

It's a metaphor. I'll let you figure the rest out... if you still claim you can't, then I think you're just being argumentative simply for the sake of the argument.

Anyway, the way that I like to put it is that just because a car has an automatic transmission does not make it a bad or boring car. However, I personally think that any car can potentially be fun with a manual.

Agreed on both accounts, and nothing I said really refuted that.  I stated that it is harder to defend manual transmissions, in terms of performance, efficiency, etc compared to the newest breed of automatic transmissions.  There will be undoubtedly those who prefer the 3 pedal arrangement for nostalgia purposes, like yourself.  However, I think that automatic transmissions like the one found in the IS-F can conceivably provide the best of both worlds.  'Fun' is a subjective word, and while a manual transmission can make a car more satisfying to drive, for some people like me, that enjoyment is tempered by the daily grind of stop and go traffic.

It's not like I'm alone there are many editors from numerous automotive journals that echo similar statements.  For example, look at what C & D editors had to say about the new Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG:

... As much as we like the sense of involvement that goes with a good manual gearbox, we have to admit that the latest manumatic and automated manual transmissions are pretty compelling, particularly allied with big-output powerplants such as the ones under scrutiny here ...

As for arguing for the sake of arguing, it's rather odd that you accuse me of that, when the last 3 exchanges between us was about neckties, clip-ons, and suits in which you brought up.  For the sake of brevity, you could have stated what you said above when you originally replied to my post.