Spy Shot 2007 Avalanche

[BMWDave]

"On-road demeanor is far more refined than in the Discovery, and if you were able to drive the LR3 blindfolded, you might think you were in the more expensive Range Rover."

That from car and driver.  

[TBR]

"On-road demeanor is far more refined than in the Discovery, and if you were able to drive the LR3 blindfolded, you might think you were in the more expensive Range Rover."

That from car and driver.

That doesn't exactly mean a whole lot, the Discovery was way behind the times in the handling department. I also don't remember a whole lot of praises for the RR's handling ability.  

[BMWDave]

"The rest of us, however, are a little let down by this new truck. We expected exceptional ride quality from the new rear suspension, but stiff springs and/or bushings inflict a choppy, jittery quality on expansion joints and pocked pavement while the dampers allow pogo-stick bounding on bigger bumps. The body seems generally less settled and composed and is always in motion. At 0.70 g, the Expedition grips the road the tightest, but its Continental tires howl loudly. The new rack-and-pinion steering is a welcome improvement, providing better feedback and virtually no dead spot on-center. An overly quick ratio, however, endangers imprudently placed thumbs during off-road rock hopping and can result in sneeze-induced highway lane changes. Ford has acknowledged as much and recently increased the ratio from 17:1 to a more comfortable 20:1. "

That also from car and driver.

Link

[TBR]

"The rest of us, however, are a little let down by this new truck. We expected exceptional ride quality from the new rear suspension, but stiff springs and/or bushings inflict a choppy, jittery quality on expansion joints and pocked pavement while the dampers allow pogo-stick bounding on bigger bumps. The body seems generally less settled and composed and is always in motion. At 0.70 g, the Expedition grips the road the tightest, but its Continental tires howl loudly. The new rack-and-pinion steering is a welcome improvement, providing better feedback and virtually no dead spot on-center. An overly quick ratio, however, endangers imprudently placed thumbs during off-road rock hopping and can result in sneeze-induced highway lane changes. Ford has acknowledged as much and recently increased the ratio from 17:1 to a more comfortable 20:1. "

That also from car and driver.

Link

They complained about the ride (fixed), the steering ratio (fixed), and the tires (fixable by consumers), but not about the handling, which they praised.

[BMWDave]

"The result is that this fastest of Range Rovers tackles sweeping bends on the highway at more than 100 mph with complete confidence and without disturbing the passengers and still rides acceptably well on tight, twisty byways. The steering has better on-center feel than it did in previous models, and changes to the air springs and anti-roll bars make it 15 percent stiffer in roll."

That about the new Range Rover.

Link

[TBR]

"The result is that this fastest of Range Rovers tackles sweeping bends on the highway at more than 100 mph with complete confidence and without disturbing the passengers and still rides acceptably well on tight, twisty byways. The steering has better on-center feel than it did in previous models, and changes to the air springs and anti-roll bars make it 15 percent stiffer in roll."

That about the new Range Rover.

Link

I suspect the Expedition could do the same.  

[BMWDave]

"The result is that this fastest of Range Rovers tackles sweeping bends on the highway at more than 100 mph with complete confidence and without disturbing the passengers and still rides acceptably well on tight, twisty byways. The steering has better on-center feel than it did in previous models, and changes to the air springs and anti-roll bars make it 15 percent stiffer in roll."

That about the new Range Rover.

Link

I suspect the Expedition could do the same.

Is that just conjecture?  Have you tried to do the same in an Expedition?  Where do any magazines say that?

[TBR]

"The result is that this fastest of Range Rovers tackles sweeping bends on the highway at more than 100 mph with complete confidence and without disturbing the passengers and still rides acceptably well on tight, twisty byways. The steering has better on-center feel than it did in previous models, and changes to the air springs and anti-roll bars make it 15 percent stiffer in roll."

That about the new Range Rover.

Link

I suspect the Expedition could do the same.

Is that just conjecture?  Have you tried to do the same in an Expedition?  Where do any magazines say that?

I have never read that, but it is an educated guess considering how stable and secure the Expedition is (a beneifit of its supposedly brittle ride, though as far as I am concerned it has an excellent ride). And, it isn't like we are talking tight turns here.  

[BMWDave]

"The result is that this fastest of Range Rovers tackles sweeping bends on the highway at more than 100 mph with complete confidence and without disturbing the passengers and still rides acceptably well on tight, twisty byways. The steering has better on-center feel than it did in previous models, and changes to the air springs and anti-roll bars make it 15 percent stiffer in roll."

That about the new Range Rover.

Link

I suspect the Expedition could do the same.

Is that just conjecture?  Have you tried to do the same in an Expedition?  Where do any magazines say that?

I have never read that, but it is an educated guess considering how stable and secure the Expedition is (a beneifit of its supposedly brittle ride, though as far as I am concerned it has an excellent ride). And, it isn't like we are talking tight turns here.

You cant estimate handling, you have to experience it.  

[TBR]

"The result is that this fastest of Range Rovers tackles sweeping bends on the highway at more than 100 mph with complete confidence and without disturbing the passengers and still rides acceptably well on tight, twisty byways. The steering has better on-center feel than it did in previous models, and changes to the air springs and anti-roll bars make it 15 percent stiffer in roll."

That about the new Range Rover.

Link

I suspect the Expedition could do the same.

Is that just conjecture?  Have you tried to do the same in an Expedition?  Where do any magazines say that?

I have never read that, but it is an educated guess considering how stable and secure the Expedition is (a beneifit of its supposedly brittle ride, though as far as I am concerned it has an excellent ride). And, it isn't like we are talking tight turns here.

You cant estimate handling, you have to experience it.

Do you have experience with the Expedition and Range  Rover at 100 mph? I suspect not so you can't say that it doesn't handle as well as a Range Rover at those speeds.

[BMWDave]

"The result is that this fastest of Range Rovers tackles sweeping bends on the highway at more than 100 mph with complete confidence and without disturbing the passengers and still rides acceptably well on tight, twisty byways. The steering has better on-center feel than it did in previous models, and changes to the air springs and anti-roll bars make it 15 percent stiffer in roll."

That about the new Range Rover.

Link

I suspect the Expedition could do the same.

Is that just conjecture?  Have you tried to do the same in an Expedition?  Where do any magazines say that?

I have never read that, but it is an educated guess considering how stable and secure the Expedition is (a beneifit of its supposedly brittle ride, though as far as I am concerned it has an excellent ride). And, it isn't like we are talking tight turns here.

You cant estimate handling, you have to experience it.

Do you have experience with the Expedition and Range  Rover at 100 mph? I suspect not so you can't say that it doesn't handle as well as a Range Rover at those speeds.

I dont know, but you simply cannot say that an Expedition handles better or the same based on conjecture.

[TBR]

"The result is that this fastest of Range Rovers tackles sweeping bends on the highway at more than 100 mph with complete confidence and without disturbing the passengers and still rides acceptably well on tight, twisty byways. The steering has better on-center feel than it did in previous models, and changes to the air springs and anti-roll bars make it 15 percent stiffer in roll."

That about the new Range Rover.

Link

I suspect the Expedition could do the same.

Is that just conjecture?  Have you tried to do the same in an Expedition?  Where do any magazines say that?

I have never read that, but it is an educated guess considering how stable and secure the Expedition is (a beneifit of its supposedly brittle ride, though as far as I am concerned it has an excellent ride). And, it isn't like we are talking tight turns here.

You cant estimate handling, you have to experience it.

Do you have experience with the Expedition and Range  Rover at 100 mph? I suspect not so you can't say that it doesn't handle as well as a Range Rover at those speeds.

I dont know, but you simply cannot say that an Expedition handles better or the same based on conjecture.

I didn't say it does, I said I suspected it does, big difference.  

[BMWDave]

"The result is that this fastest of Range Rovers tackles sweeping bends on the highway at more than 100 mph with complete confidence and without disturbing the passengers and still rides acceptably well on tight, twisty byways. The steering has better on-center feel than it did in previous models, and changes to the air springs and anti-roll bars make it 15 percent stiffer in roll."

That about the new Range Rover.

Link

I suspect the Expedition could do the same.

Is that just conjecture?  Have you tried to do the same in an Expedition?  Where do any magazines say that?

I have never read that, but it is an educated guess considering how stable and secure the Expedition is (a beneifit of its supposedly brittle ride, though as far as I am concerned it has an excellent ride). And, it isn't like we are talking tight turns here.

You cant estimate handling, you have to experience it.

Do you have experience with the Expedition and Range  Rover at 100 mph? I suspect not so you can't say that it doesn't handle as well as a Range Rover at those speeds.

I dont know, but you simply cannot say that an Expedition handles better or the same based on conjecture.

I didn't say it does, I said I suspected it does, big difference.

All right.  Its still conjecture though to even suggest it.

[ifcar]

Aren't truck based SUVs becoming a bit passe?

It isn't really a suv, besides, you really can't build a large suv (such as as Suburban or Armada) on a unibody.

What I'm saying is that I think people are starting to realize that these body on frame beasts are not the best choice. I think crossovers are going to become more and more popular while the big trucks lose popularity.

A lot of people need/think they need 3 comfortable rows of seating, right now there are only 3 alternatives for those buyers: 1. a minivan- too dorky 2. a fullsize van- also too dorky 3. a large suv- not as refined or cheap as options 1 or 2 but sure looks a lot more cool. For that reason a lot of people choose large suvs and will continue to do so. I personally don't think a unibody would be strong enough for a vehicle that large, so as far as large suvs go I think we are pretty much stuck with vehicles similar to the ones we have now (which is fine by me since they drive pretty decent these days and have a lot more capability).

Buyers also have the option of getting midsizers that have third rows of seats.  Midsizers can be based off unibodies, and they are not dorky at all.

Yes, but the 3rd rows aren't comfortable for adults.

In an LR3 they are very comfortable.  Most comfortable third row seats I've ever been in of an SUV of its class.

I don't know what you're comparing it to, but the LR3's third row isn't particularly impressive for a midsize SUV. It's better than the XC90's and a number of mainstream vehicles, but the SRX's is better-shaped, and several mainstream SUVs have much more room.

[BMWDave]

Aren't truck based SUVs becoming a bit passe?

It isn't really a suv, besides, you really can't build a large suv (such as as Suburban or Armada) on a unibody.

What I'm saying is that I think people are starting to realize that these body on frame beasts are not the best choice. I think crossovers are going to become more and more popular while the big trucks lose popularity.

A lot of people need/think they need 3 comfortable rows of seating, right now there are only 3 alternatives for those buyers: 1. a minivan- too dorky 2. a fullsize van- also too dorky 3. a large suv- not as refined or cheap as options 1 or 2 but sure looks a lot more cool. For that reason a lot of people choose large suvs and will continue to do so. I personally don't think a unibody would be strong enough for a vehicle that large, so as far as large suvs go I think we are pretty much stuck with vehicles similar to the ones we have now (which is fine by me since they drive pretty decent these days and have a lot more capability).

Buyers also have the option of getting midsizers that have third rows of seats.  Midsizers can be based off unibodies, and they are not dorky at all.

Yes, but the 3rd rows aren't comfortable for adults.

In an LR3 they are very comfortable.  Most comfortable third row seats I've ever been in of an SUV of its class.

I don't know what you're comparing it to, but the LR3's third row isn't particularly impressive for a midsize SUV. It's better than the XC90's and a number of mainstream vehicles, but the SRX's is better-shaped, and several mainstream SUVs have much more room.

What other mainstream SUVs are you talking about?  Explorer?  Trailblazer?  I've been in both, and you feel like your in a pit.  IN the LR3, the are footwells, so you have legroom, and the seats are shaped very nicely.

[BMWDave]

This is from Edmunds:

"As third-row seats go, the LR3's, which is optional, is one of the best. It ups passenger capacity to seven and allows normal human beings to sit upright without having their knees for lunch."

[BMWDave]

From Road and Track:

"Seating for five is the standard configuration with a seven-seat layout available as an option, the latter an excellent design as it allows for adults ? not merely children ? to enter and exit quite easily the rear bench row seating, which offers surprisingly decent accommodations. "

[ifcar]

Aren't truck based SUVs becoming a bit passe?

It isn't really a suv, besides, you really can't build a large suv (such as as Suburban or Armada) on a unibody.

What I'm saying is that I think people are starting to realize that these body on frame beasts are not the best choice. I think crossovers are going to become more and more popular while the big trucks lose popularity.

A lot of people need/think they need 3 comfortable rows of seating, right now there are only 3 alternatives for those buyers: 1. a minivan- too dorky 2. a fullsize van- also too dorky 3. a large suv- not as refined or cheap as options 1 or 2 but sure looks a lot more cool. For that reason a lot of people choose large suvs and will continue to do so. I personally don't think a unibody would be strong enough for a vehicle that large, so as far as large suvs go I think we are pretty much stuck with vehicles similar to the ones we have now (which is fine by me since they drive pretty decent these days and have a lot more capability).

Buyers also have the option of getting midsizers that have third rows of seats.  Midsizers can be based off unibodies, and they are not dorky at all.

Yes, but the 3rd rows aren't comfortable for adults.

In an LR3 they are very comfortable.  Most comfortable third row seats I've ever been in of an SUV of its class.

I don't know what you're comparing it to, but the LR3's third row isn't particularly impressive for a midsize SUV. It's better than the XC90's and a number of mainstream vehicles, but the SRX's is better-shaped, and several mainstream SUVs have much more room.

What other mainstream SUVs are you talking about?  Explorer?  Trailblazer?  I've been in both, and you feel like your in a pit.  IN the LR3, the are footwells, so you have legroom, and the seats are shaped very nicely.

What mainstream SUVs am I talking about? Freestyle, obviously, as well as the Pilot, Pacifica have much better comfort, and the TrailBlazer EXT/Envoy XL and Explorer have more space.

[R33 GT-R]

Dave is right, I'm 6'5" and when I was at the LR dealer I climbed into the back of the LR3 and l could handle being back there for sometime.  I've been in the back of Land Cruisers, Sequoias, Suburbans, H2 and several others that don't compare to the space provided in the 3rd row of the LR3.  

[ifcar]

H2? I agree. Land Cruiser? I'd say the accomodations are similar. Sequioa or Suburban? Not close. It does beat the Tahoe's near-worthless seat, at least.

[R33 GT-R]

H2? I agree. Land Cruiser? I'd say the accomodations are similar. Sequioa or Suburban? Not close. It does beat the Tahoe's near-worthless seat, at least.

Ok IfCaR, Feeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt!  It's time to