IFCAR Comparison: Economy Sedans

[93JC]

Koko (ifcar) is a Ford Focus troll, John.

The outcome of this was quite predictable: Focus somewhere near the top along with a Hyundai and the 'Japanese' cars, other cars near the bottom.

Classic Koko review.

[SJ_GTI]

Interesting.? Having extensively evaluated both the Focus and Mazda before deciding on the Mazda (in Feb 2006) I am at a loss to understand how the Focus was ranked higher.?

Better engine, better driving dynamics, better aminities, better interior, better ergonomics, better looks (subjective), better mileage.? I'll take the Mazda, thank you very much.?

There's no accounting for taste!

I can say with near certainty that the Mazda 3 would be near the top of my list. Though I do think the Focus is alright, but I'd prefer it in a hatchback.

[ifcar]

Would the Suzuki Swift fit in this class, were it here?

I don't think there's a sedan version, so no.

[ifcar]

It's the same size as the Yaris (well, hatch anyway) but much smaller than, say, an Impreza.

Question for you - what's the difference in size between a Versa saloon and a Sentra saloon?

http://ifcar.net/reviews.comparisons.economysedans.vehicledetails.htm

[TheIntrepid]

Koko I fully understand that you, being an 'institute', have far superior intelligence than us mere mortals, but you seem to fail to realize that whilst cheapskates like yourself may prefer the Ford Focus and other Korean hunks of scrap metals to superior cars in the class such as the Mazda3, Corolla, Civic, but the majority of the public disagrees.

Isn't there a reason that the Corolla and Civic are amongst the best-selling cars of their classes, whereas the ones you ranked higher are far from it?

[ifcar]

Koko I fully understand that you, being an 'institute', have far superior intelligence than us mere mortals, but you seem to fail to realize that whilst cheapskates like yourself may prefer the Ford Focus and other Korean hunks of scrap metals to superior cars in the class such as the Mazda3, Corolla, Civic, but the majority of the public disagrees.

Isn't there a reason that the Corolla and Civic are amongst the best-selling cars of their classes, whereas the ones you ranked higher are far from it?

If everyone were to agree, and the agreement was to be based on sales results, would there be a need for any reviews or discussions?

The Civic and Corolla outsell the Mazda3, does that make it any better or worse?

[TheIntrepid]

What's your take on the fact that the Aveo somehow beat out the Forenza, which is technically its bigger sibling (Chevy Optra in most markets)?

Also, I think that you should have two separate comparos, one for economy sedans and one for compact sedans...

i.e. the Sentra should be with the Corolla, Civic, Elantra, etc and the Versa with the Yaris, Accent, etc.

[ifcar]

What's your take on the fact that the Aveo somehow beat out the Forenza, which is technically its bigger sibling (Chevy Optra in most markets)?

Also, I think that you should have two separate comparos, one for economy sedans and one for compact sedans...

i.e. the Sentra should be with the Corolla, Civic, Elantra, etc and the Versa with the Yaris, Accent, etc.

Why? They go after the same people, and there is an insufficient price separation. The Focus is the least expensive car in the group, but would be in the larger group. The Yaris is within $200 of the Corolla, more than many larger cars. And so on.

They're going after the same customers, and sometimes the smaller car is a better car for the money (Versa, Aveo) and sometimes it isn't (Yaris, Accent). Break them up and that isn't clear.

[TheIntrepid]

Somehow all the periodicals break them up into those categories. So do the automakers, otherwise there wouldn't be a need for all these different models... Nissan wouldn't have needed a Versa, Hyundai wouldn' have needed an Accent, Toyota would have stuck with the Corolla and never introduced Yaris/Echo/Tercel...

[ifcar]

Somehow all the periodicals break them up into those categories. So do the automakers, otherwise there wouldn't be a need for all these different models... Nissan wouldn't have needed a Versa, Hyundai wouldn' have needed an Accent, Toyota would have stuck with the Corolla and never introduced Yaris/Echo/Tercel...

The larger cars are almost always better, just not always so much better that they're worth extra money. Some are, some aren't. I'd say comparing a Corolla and Yaris that are priced nearly the same makes as much sense as comparing either to competitors.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I say, I would take a base model Hyundai Accent hatchback for $10,415 MSRP over any of the cars in your test.
I guess you could say, I'm not a fan of small sedans. They make no sense.

[SVT666]

I odn't know why you do this to yourself Iffy.  Every single time, it's the same people complaining aobut the same things and you defending yourself every time.  Personally, I respect your selections.  i may not agree with all of them, but I do respect them.

BTW Intrepid, the Corolla is by far the shittiest new small car I've driven.

[TBR]

Big price difference.

[etypeJohn]

There's no accounting for taste!

I can say with near certainty that the Mazda 3 would be near the top of my list. Though I do think the Focus is alright, but I'd prefer it in a hatchback.

What actually decided it for us was the engine, followed by the glove box and console.  The Focus console is a joke.  iocus

Had Ford made a Focus wagon with a decent glove box and console much like the Mazda's.? We would be driving a red 5 speed Focus wagon fully optioned with leather seats.?

[TheIntrepid]

I odn't know why you do this to yourself Iffy. Every single time, it's the same people complaining aobut the same things and you defending yourself every time. Personally, I respect your selections. i may not agree with all of them, but I do respect them.

BTW Intrepid, the Corolla is by far the shittiest new small car I've driven.

I respect his decisions; I made a suggestion to break it down. I didn't say the Corolla wasn't shit, it is indeed a piece of shit, but that's because it's outdated. Compared to the last-gen Civic, the Protege, and the old Sentra, the Corolla's a pretty good car.

I may not agree with his choices but I still respect the fact that he takes all this time to conduct these comparisons.

[the Teuton]

The Corolla is the perfect economy car.  It's extremely well-isolated, has a huge rear seat for what it is, is peppy, gets great mileage, is cheaper than hell, and the LEs feel like cutrate Lexuses.  My sis-in-law has one, and while it is no Mazda3, the Mazda3 doesn't get 41 mpg, isn't considered the most reliable car on Earth yet, and is a fair amount more expensive at this point.  It makes sense, just not from an enthusiast's standpoint.

[FoMoJo]

I enjoyed reading the reviews.  I can't disagree with what you've stated.

How do you acquire the cars for testing?

[etypeJohn]

The Corolla is the perfect economy car.? It's extremely well-isolated, has a huge rear seat for what it is, is peppy, gets great mileage, is cheaper than hell, and the LEs feel like cutrate Lexuses.? My sis-in-law has one, and while it is no Mazda3, the Mazda3 doesn't get 41 mpg, isn't considered the most reliable car on Earth yet, and is a fair amount more expensive at this point.? It makes sense, just not from an enthusiast's standpoint.

Nope the Mazda3 doesn't get 41, however I got 35 highway on a real world 7000 mile trip last summer and we get 30-31 around town, again real world.? The corolla gets 41 highway.? So for 12,000 miles a year the difference is 50 gallons, or somewhere between $100 and $150 dollars.? Since most driving will be in the city and the difference there is less, about 2-3 mPG I suspect the average driver will see about a $50 difference per year.?

Go to edmunds and compare side by side a Corolla LE 5 speed 1.8 and a? and Mazda3i touring 5 speed 2.0 and the MSRP difference is about $640.? For that difference you get:

steering wheel controls for the radio.
generally a larger interior
a bigger fuel tank
a smaller trunk
22 more horses
MOre torque
4 wheel independent suspension vs. Corollas 2 wheel
Alloy wheels
lumbar and height adjustments on the driver's seat
standard rear ventilation ducts
standard cruise control
tilt and telescope steering column?
front seatback pockets
4 wheel disc brakes
more sound system options.
A glove box you could put a weeks groceries in (not really but its damn big).

Explain to me again how the Corolla makes sense?

Option the Corolla the same as the Mazda and it is at a price disadvantage.

Plus why be stuck in a 128 HP slug when you can enjoy more HP and driving fun?

Sorry, I can't see the corolla being a better car, except for spinsters.? ? Just kidding you there.

[ifcar]

How do you acquire the cars for testing?

Same way anyone can, dealer test drives.

[SJ_GTI]

The Corolla is the perfect economy car.? It's extremely well-isolated, has a huge rear seat for what it is, is peppy, gets great mileage, is cheaper than hell, and the LEs feel like cutrate Lexuses.? My sis-in-law has one, and while it is no Mazda3, the Mazda3 doesn't get 41 mpg, isn't considered the most reliable car on Earth yet, and is a fair amount more expensive at this point.? It makes sense, just not from an enthusiast's standpoint.

My GTI must be a Porsche or Ferrari then. 

[TheIntrepid]

My GTI must be a Porsche or Ferrari then. 

Lamborghini.

[SJ_GTI]

My bad. 

[TheIntrepid]

You're forgiven because you drive my practical dream car.

[Raza]

You're forgiven because you drive my practical dream car.

It's too small for you.

[TheIntrepid]

Blow me.

It's not a matter of tightness, it's my horrible claustrophobia. The windows in the MkV Rabbit/GTI are perfectly big and it didn't feel too bad.

[the Teuton]

My GTI must be a Porsche or Ferrari then.?

VeeDubs are pretty well put together.  They're just electrical nightmares.  Oh yeah, and the last Jetta I drove (a 1995) had a tranny that was going out.  I wouldn't put it beyond belief that the GTI is very nice, interior-wise.  It looks good, feels good, and screams of quality.  I'm just saying that for the price, the Corolla is a darn fine car in and out.  Oh yeah, real-world prices show the Corolla being a ton cheaper than the 3.  No doubt about that.  I don't care about sticker prices.

[MexicoCityM3]

The Nissan Versa is proudly made in Mexico in Aguascalientes. I have seen that plant.

[FoMoJo]

Same way anyone can, dealer test drives.

That's admirable!? Is this a hobby or a career plan?? Just curious...

Just a comment...for those who are enthusiasts and complain when their (sorta) sporty favourites don't rank as high as they think they should.? Perhaps a column with weighted values related to the more sporty features of a vehicle...handling, power, driving dynamics, etc. that would provide an alternative ranking if you value these features more than the more mundane favoured by the general population.

[ifcar]

That's admirable!  Is this a hobby or a career plan?  Just curious...

Just a comment...for those who are enthusiasts and complain when their (sorta) sporty favourites don't rank as high as they think they should.  Perhaps a column with weighted values related to the more sporty features of a vehicle...handling, power, driving dynamics, etc. that would provide an alternative ranking if you value these features more than the more mundane favoured by the general population.

Just a hobby, it has no conceivable way of paying the bills.

There are already dozens of publications that focus only on those fun-to-drive characteristics, and they can add results of performance testing at at-the-limit behavior that make theirs better. People can hear what they want to hear from those sources.

[FoMoJo]

Just a hobby, it has no conceivable way of paying the bills.

There are already dozens of publications that focus only on those fun-to-drive characteristics, and they can add results of performance testing at at-the-limit behavior that make theirs better. People can hear what they want to hear from those sources.

I'm impressed that it's only a hobby.

As for the alternate ranking, it's just a thought I had.