Mid-size Lux Sedans

[Raghavan]

Sure but the car in question is RWD!Gotcha, I believe the more normal term is BHP (break horsepower). Or at least I would have understood what you were saying if you said that :D

Well that's why i thought it was so funny...

[ArchBishop]

That's not proof because Consumer Reports has been proven to have suspect means of analyzing and collecting data over and over and over again. They're one of the most deceptive automotive publications out there (when they're not reviewing toasters).

Suspect or not (and I don't belive it to be suspect) the reliablity Data that CR reports has been Very Accurate.

[ArchBishop]

It is even harder to imagine that any real enthusiast would be so lacking in tolerance.

Again, a real enthusist would like the car that has the best of both. I can see from the poll, there are a lot of "real enthusiast" (Choosing the BMW 335)

[ro51092]

Ahoy, Archibald.

Some of Audi's styling decisions of late aren't necessarily the best - the giant grille thing works on the performance models (S and RS), but it falls apart a bit for me when a a humble A4 2.0 on steel wheels has a gaping mouth like it's packing some serious aggression under the hood. Which it isn't.

Having said that, every aspect of Audi interiors is brilliantly built, logically designed, and smartly styled, and the A8 is exquisite.

You aren't talking about the 2.0T, right? It's not a monster under the hood, but it's quick.

[JYODER240]

Again, a real enthusist would like the car that has the best of both. I can see from the poll, there are a lot of "real enthusiast" (Choosing the BMW 335)

Have you even driven any of these cars?

[ro51092]

I'm Serious. The Audi's have to be some of the biggest failures I have seen. It?s scary that they sell, with the reliability of Mercedes, but lack of name Benz recognition > I personally feel they are ugly cars, with sub par styling and Dynamics. It?s hard to imagine any real enthusiast liking any car they make.

You, sir are a fucking moron. You can think they're ugly. If you really trust CR, then you aren't much of an enthusiast. How the hell does CR know what's coming in the future? They're a bunch of craps that should stick to toasters, and baby strollers. Oh, and my Audi hasn't crapped out on me anytime lately.

[ArchBishop]

You, sir are a fucking moron. You can think they're ugly. If you really trust CR, then you aren't much of an enthusiast. How the hell does CR know what's coming in the future? They're a bunch of craps that should stick to toasters, and baby strollers. Oh, and my Audi hasn't crapped out on me anytime lately.

And it shouldn't. But that doesn't mean it won't.

And CR never claims to predict the future of your overpriced VW, but they can give an idea of what reliablity could be like by looking at past data.

[ro51092]

Guess what, my overpriced Accord, the Acura TL, which has a very good reliability rating (from what I hear), was a POS. It had a new rattle, a new defect every other month. The thing could've been made by a band of monkeys, and it would've been better made. On the other hand, my A4, which is supposedly unreliable, hasn't made so much as a squeak in the wrong area. CR is utter bullshit.

What do you drive, homeboy?

[ArchBishop]

Guess what, my overpriced Accord, the Acura TL, which has a very good reliability rating (from what I hear), was a POS. It had a new rattle, a new defect every other month. The thing could've been made by a band of monkeys, and it would've been better made. On the other hand, my A4, which is supposedly unreliable, hasn't made so much as a squeak in the wrong area. CR is utter bullshit.

What do you drive, homeboy?

Squeaks are a quality issue, not a Reliblity Issue. Try again.

[ro51092]

Squeaks are a quality issue, not a Reliblity Issue. Try again.

Did you miss 'defect'?

[ArchBishop]

Did you miss 'defect'?

You didn't go into detail. Year of the car, and mileage? And your Audi looks to be brand new, was your Acura?
Also, one of the big areas on Audi/Vw is electrical.

[ro51092]

Both were brand new.

[ArchBishop]

Both were brand new.

Acura's are rated much better than average in everything except Body integrity, which was just above average. the 05' version was below average in the same catigory.

[ro51092]

Trust me, man, CR is bullshit. Everyone on this forum, and probably most other forums know that.

[ArchBishop]

Trust me, man, CR is bullshit. Everyone on this forum, and probably most other forums know that.

I'd like to think so, but my brother 3series, my parents Saab and my friends cars all fall under the common trouble sports that CR list.

[the Teuton]

I'd like to think so, but my brother 3series, my parents Saab and my friends cars all fall under the common trouble sports that CR list.

You're really not listening.  CR is a guide, and the used car guides they make are a little better, but overall, it's not the best thing to go by.  Try Edmund's consumer reviews for a better indication.  Using CR is like going strictly by every other mag's 40,000 mile road test.  It isn't conclusive enough for the average consumer.

[ro51092]

Who voted for the 9-3? I don't really understand why anyone would take that car over the other offerings. Just my opinion, though. I don't have much experience with Saabs. I drove the 9-3, and I didn't like it at all. The shifter's a mess, and, although it handled nicely, it didnt feel like a cohesive car.

[TheIntrepid]

Archbishop reminds me of Jake Miller.

[omicron]

You aren't talking about the 2.0T, right? It's not a monster under the hood, but it's quick.

No no, the NA 2.0. Base model sold here - 96kW / 129hp, 195Nm / 144lb-ft.

[Galaxy]

Again, a real enthusist would like the car that has the best of both. I can see from the poll, there are a lot of "real enthusiast" (Choosing the BMW 335)

The Mini and Beetle enthusiast clubs must have not gotten your memo. After all making such horrible cars your hobby can not be logical.?

See, personaly I do not like the Maxima. That does not make it a bad car it just does not appeal to me. The Audis do not appeal to you and that is fine, however do not go around demanding that other people to share your point of view.

[Champ]

Who voted for the 9-3? I don't really understand why anyone would take that car over the other offerings. Just my opinion, though. I don't have much experience with Saabs. I drove the 9-3, and I didn't like it at all. The shifter's a mess, and, although it handled nicely, it didnt feel like a cohesive car.

It's a nice car if you have to factor in price, but that of course wasn't the question in this pole so it would be hard to pick.  Now maybe if it was still a hatch back I could go for it...I like my utility!

What else didn't you like about the 9-3?  If you get used to the shifter it will feel normal (i.e. everyone raves about say the S2000's shifter, and they hate the Saab one.  But I miss more shifts in the Honda than in my car).  The car does handle very well for a FWD car, and the 2.0T is much smoother than VW/Audi's.  I can't stand how rough VW's sound with that engine.  And of course the new Aero has that excellent V-6!

[Raza]

Who voted for the 9-3? I don't really understand why anyone would take that car over the other offerings. Just my opinion, though. I don't have much experience with Saabs. I drove the 9-3, and I didn't like it at all. The shifter's a mess, and, although it handled nicely, it didnt feel like a cohesive car.

If you didn't like it, you weren't meant to.  But that's okay.  You can live in your ugly gray world with your BMWs.

[ro51092]

If you didn't like it, you weren't meant to.  But that's okay.  You can live in your ugly gray world with your BMWs.

I'll take Porsches too.

[the Teuton]

If you didn't like it, you weren't meant to.? But that's okay.? You can live in your ugly gray world with your BMWs.

Raza, admittedly I'm in love with E21s and E30s far more than the newer BMW 3 Series, but why do you hate them so much?  It it because it's Camry-common in the entry lux realm?

[Raza]

Raza, admittedly I'm in love with E21s and E30s far more than the newer BMW 3 Series, but why do you hate them so much?  It it because it's Camry-common in the entry lux realm?

I was shot by a 3 series driver.

[Vinsanity]

I skipped over most of this thread, but are the CTS and C-class in question for the poll 2008 models?

[chevyguy06]

I skipped over most of this thread, but are the CTS and C-class in question for the poll 2008 models?

Yes

[ArchBishop]

The Mini and Beetle enthusiast clubs must have not gotten your memo. After all making such horrible cars your hobby can not be logical.?

See, personaly I do not like the Maxima. That does not make it a bad car it just does not appeal to me. The Audis do not appeal to you and that is fine, however do not go around demanding that other people to share your point of view.

When did I demand Anyone share my point of view. The truth is, if you really enjoy "spirted Driving" there are better choices than the audi.

[ro51092]

When did I demand Anyone share my point of view. The truth is, if you really enjoy "spirted Driving" there are better choices than the audi.

Yeah, the BMW. Other then that, what? Please enlighten us.

[ArchBishop]

Yeah, the BMW. Other then that, what? Please enlighten us.

G35 > audi. Easily.
Acura TL-S?