Nitrogen In Tires?

[TurboDan]

Hey Folks,

Was talking to my Dad yesterday, the proud owner of four new Michelin tires which he bought at Costco.  He got an oil change this weekend and the guy at the oil change place told him that he didn't fill up his tires like they normally do because his tires ad green caps on them, signifying that there was nitrogen instead of regular air in the tires.

Has anyone ever heard of this before?  The guy told my Dad that it supposedly improves handling and tire life. 

[heelntoe]

i don't know about the handling and tyre life but because the nitrogen molecules are larger, they(tyres) stay at a constant pressure longer.
as it is, the air already contains ~75% nitrogen, the nitrogen for tyres contains ~95% nitrogen.

[Secret Chimp]

What confuses me a little about nitrogen is that it isn't as heat-reactive as air, meaning that your tires won't gain PSI as they heat up. It seems to me like this would require recalculating your required tire pressures, as if you air up your tires at 32 psi, they're going to stay at 32 psi even if you run around at 80 mph all day. Air-inflated tires plump up by several PSI when they're hot, so if you inflated your tires at the cold PSI with nitrogen, it seems to be like you'd be running around on under-inflated tires, as they never actually "warm up" like normally inflated tires do. If you can figure out what PSI your tires get to as a normal running range and use nitrogen to inflate them to that new standard PSI, it seems like it would work. I'm just going off of what I remember reading in an article by Jay Leno where he mentioned nitrogen inflation.

[S204STi]

Dan,  the fact is that unless you are a race car driver it doesn't matter what you put in your tires.  Yes, the tire pressure tends to stay steady despite temperature, and theoretically the larger molecules don't leak out as quickly like Heelntoe said, but if that was truly foolproof then folks like me wouldn't have to tell you to go back to your tire shop to get more put in, would we?

Personally I inflate them to proper spec regardless of the green caps.  I don't give a damn if someone else wants to rip you off, I am doing you no harm and a lot of good by filling your tire to proper spec with FREE AIR which is already %70 nitrogen anyway, preventing wear and possible tire failure.

All-in-all nitrogen is a complete rip-off for the average consumer, much like the "cold air intake".

[Soup DeVille]

What confuses me a little about nitrogen is that it isn't as heat-reactive as air, meaning that your tires won't gain PSI as they heat up. It seems to me like this would require recalculating your required tire pressures, as if you air up your tires at 32 psi, they're going to stay at 32 psi even if you run around at 80 mph all day. Air-inflated tires plump up by several PSI when they're hot, so if you inflated your tires at the cold PSI with nitrogen, it seems to be like you'd be running around on under-inflated tires, as they never actually "warm up" like normally inflated tires do. If you can figure out what PSI your tires get to as a normal running range and use nitrogen to inflate them to that new standard PSI, it seems like it would work. I'm just going off of what I remember reading in an article by Jay Leno where he mentioned nitrogen inflation.

Nitrogen inflation is a serious waste of time for a daily driver car.

Okay, air is about 80% nitrogen in the first place, and until you reach the point where you might boil water moisture is in your tires, air acts exactly like nitrogen as far as pressure changes per temperature go: and if your tires get to 212 degrees in daily use you have bigger problems to worry about.

The other claim made about nitrogen is that it leaks at a slower rate. Okay, this may have some minor truth to it. Some of the molecules floating around in air are small enough to permeate the vulcanized rubber your tires are made of at a very slow rate. I check my tires at every fill-up and they lose maybe 1 PSI per month if left completely alone. You should be checking your tires at least once a month anyways: and inflation is only one thing to check: treadwear and sidewall scars being a much bigger concern.

So just check your damned tires once in a while.

[Soup DeVille]

i don't know about the handling and tyre life but because the nitrogen molecules are larger, they(tyres) stay at a constant pressure longer.
as it is, the air already contains ~75% nitrogen, the nitrogen for tyres contains ~95% nitrogen.

Unless you have dual-valve wheels like those used in racing, there is no way to vent the air that is already in your tires out. Its going to stay in there. Adding 95% nitrogen to 100% air is going to knock another 5 to 10% off of the nitrogen percentage no matter how you cut it.

[sandertheshark]

I've inflated my tires with radon.  I haven't noticed any difference in performance, just a bunch of small animals that keep dropping dead in my driveway for some reason.

[S204STi]

I've inflated my tires with radon.? I haven't noticed any difference in performance, just a bunch of small animals that keep dropping dead in my driveway for some reason.

Do the glowing tires give you better nighttime visibility?

[sandertheshark]

Do the glowing tires give you better nighttime visibility?

not really, but it definitely makes it easier to find my car in a crowded parking lot at night.

[S204STi]

not really, but it definitely makes it easier to find my car in a crowded parking lot at night.

I would imagine so.

Plus, no fear of making babies if you have to use the car for other purposes.

[sparkplug]

I have heard of this and I was looking for an article I'd read about it. You see pure nitrogen contains no moisture and that prevents aluminum or steel rims from suffering from corrosion. We have an air compressor at home and it does build up moisture. Sometimes why we are using  pneumatic tool we see water coming out. It's moisture that results from air compression. Also air naturally has humidity.

[Soup DeVille]

I have heard of this and I was looking for an article I'd read about it. You see pure nitrogen contains no moisture and that prevents aluminum or steel rims from suffering from corrosion. We have an air compressor at home and it does build up moisture. Sometimes why we are using? pneumatic tool we see water coming out. It's moisture that results from air compression. Also air naturally has humidity.

And that's one of the reasons its used in aircraft tires.

But be honest with yourself here for a minute: Have you ever seen or heard of somebody losing a wheel because it corroded inside the bead so badly it couldn't be used? Think of the things the outside of your wheels are subjected to and ask yourself why anyone would bother to worry about the possibility of moisture on the inside of the tire.

Heck, its an old school farmer' trick to actually fill the tires half full with water to increase the weight over them and provide better traction; and that's on steel wheels which are more vulnerable to serious corrosion than anything, and I still have never heard of any of those tires rusting off of their wheels.

[Raza]

 

I fill my tires with the blood of orphans.

[omicron]

I fill my tires with the blood of orphans.

So does Angelina Jolie, but she parades them about as her 'children' before using them.

[Raza]

My media exposure is lower.  I don't have to pretend.

[sportyaccordy]

I would imagine so.

Plus, no fear of making babies if you have to use the car for other purposes.

I also imagine it would give you a head start on any microwave dinners you purchase...

[etypeJohn]

Dan,? the fact is that unless you are a race car driver it doesn't matter what you put in your tires.? Yes, the tire pressure tends to stay steady despite temperature, and theoretically the larger molecules don't leak out as quickly like Heelntoe said, but if that was truly foolproof then folks like me wouldn't have to tell you to go back to your tire shop to get more put in, would we?

Personally I inflate them to proper spec regardless of the green caps.? I don't give a damn if someone else wants to rip you off, I am doing you no harm and a lot of good by filling your tire to proper spec with FREE AIR which is already %70 nitrogen anyway, preventing wear and possible tire failure.

All-in-all nitrogen is a complete rip-off for the average consumer, much like the "cold air intake".

I couldn't have said it better.  Except the % of nitrogen in the atmosphere is actually 78.1%.  save the money you would have wasted filling your tires with nitrogen and apply that savings toward better tires when the ones you have wear out.

[sparkplug]

And that's one of the reasons its used in aircraft tires.

But be honest with yourself here for a minute: Have you ever seen or heard of somebody losing a wheel because it corroded inside the bead so badly it couldn't be used? Think of the things the outside of your wheels are subjected to and ask yourself why anyone would bother to worry about the possibility of moisture on the inside of the tire.

Heck, its an old school farmer' trick to actually fill the tires half full with water to increase the weight over them and provide better traction; and that's on steel wheels which are more vulnerable to serious corrosion than anything, and I still have never heard of any of those tires rusting off of their wheels.

Just one of the theories. Our tractor's rear tires are full of water and you're right. They haven't rusted through. But then I believe the inside rim on those are painted and those are tubed tires I do believe so water shouldn't be hitting the rim. Of course ours is a 1978 model. That's the year. Hey it runs good.

[sandertheshark]

I fill my tires with the blood of orphans.

How does that do for you?  I knew a guy who used squirrel puree when I was in college.

[r0tor]

baby seal blood works very well too 

Seriously, last time I checked nitrogen acts like an ideal gas the same as air (a 78% nitrogen mix)... you should be checking your pressure regularly even if you have nitrogen in your tires as a N2 nitrogen moelcule is much smaller then a nail hole

[JWC]

I personally believe nitrogen is a big waste of money, but...

Water in tractor tires...we did this for our lifts at Perdue Farms, basically a tractor with controls reversed so it works as a very big forklift.? Only, we used a solution of water and antifreeze.? In really cold weather, it kept ice from forming in the tires and it also prevented corrosion inside the rims.

This is being debated on the Ford dealer forums today.? You have one group saying it is a great benefit to the customer, probably the same guys that really, really, really, believe that power steering fluid should be flushed every 30k and other guys that compare it to snake oil.?

We discussed it at work and maybe someone can shed some light on this for me.? I asked one of our guys about nitrogen...how it is added  to a tire and what happens to the air remaining in the tire.? The air left behind when even after you deflate them.? He thinks a machine, like a flush machine is used, but I find that unlikely, since there is only one way in and one way out for a tire.? He's think it is like a trans flush, but I pointed out that trans flush machine is hooked up so that is adds fluid on one side and evacuates the old fluid from the down side.

So, is there a "nitrogen/air" flush machine or is just dreaming?


I also asked the service manager when we were going to get a nitrogen inflation device.  His answer was when "hell freezes over".

[Danish]

So, is there a "nitrogen/air" flush machine or is just dreaming?

Disclaimer: This may not be true, but some reason my gut tells me it is.

Yeah there are, cause some tires have two valves for inflation, one to let air in and one to let air out.

[Soup DeVille]

Disclaimer: This may not be true, but some reason my gut tells me it is.

Yeah there are, cause some tires have two valves for inflation, one to let air in and one to let air out.

Yes, but no OEM wheels do.

[sparkplug]

Disclaimer: This may not be true, but some reason my gut tells me it is.

Yeah there are, cause some tires have two valves for inflation, one to let air in and one to let air out.

hahaha.

That's like saying the fluid in the headlight needs to be refilled.

[ro51092]

hahaha.

That's like saying the fluid in the headlight needs to be refilled.

You reminded me, I need blinker fluid. Thanks. 

[heelntoe]

the valve is removed to let all the air out and refilled with nitrogen. atleast that's how it's done here.

[heelntoe]

You reminded me, I need blinker fluid. Thanks. 

http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=6

[Soup DeVille]

the valve is removed to let all the air out and refilled with nitrogen. atleast that's how it's done here.

Unless you suck it out with a very powerful vacuum pump, there is still air in the tire.

[heelntoe]

i had that done when i had a flat tyre(it was free. ) so the tube was pretty empty when they filled it with nitrogen.

[JWC]

Tube?

i had that done when i had a flat tyre(it was free. ) so the tube was pretty empty when they filled it with nitrogen.