535i first look from C&D

[565]

http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/13051/first-drive-2008-bmw-5-series.html


They also predict near 550 performance with this 535.  Wonder if the 550 is about to be upgraded soon... again.

[850CSi]

Bad move on BMW's part IMO. I'd still much rather have a V8 than a twin-turbo I6, but for the money I'd buy a 535i every single time.

They need to upgrade the 550i, otherwise it becomes somewhat obsolete. Then again, Audi did this with the 4.2 and people still bought them.

[sportyaccordy]

This reminds me of the GS350 vs GS430 issue about a year back...

Companies should follow MB's suit and just go for the big dog 5.5L V8.... otherwise there's really no justification for the current V8 models, other than the sound (maybe).

[SJ_GTI]

I don't think this is the same as the GS350/GS430 situation. In that case, the V6 had more HP than the V8. Here, we are talking about a difference of "only" 60 HP. The 550i makes ~360 HP, the 535i makes ~300 HP.

[850CSi]

I don't think this is the same as the GS350/GS430 situation. In that case, the V6 had more HP than the V8. Here, we are talking about a difference of "only" 60 HP. The 550i makes ~360 HP, the 535i makes ~300 HP.

A lot of people say the -35is are very underrated.

How else does a 335i with a slushbox get to 60 in 4.9...

[TheIntrepid]

A lot of people say the -35is are very underrated.

How else does a 335i with a slushbox get to 60 in 4.9...

Not an overly impressive number. ZOMG it's exactly 1 second quicker than an automatic Toyota Camry V6.

[850CSi]

Not an overly impressive number. ZOMG it's exactly 1 second quicker than an automatic Toyota Camry V6.

An additional 30HP usually doesn't cut your 0-60 time by more than one second. Also, it becomes more and more difficult to get faster when you get down into the 5 second range.

[the Teuton]

There's a big gap between 550i and M5 right now and not a very significant gap between 535i and 550i.  My solution:  make the M5 more powerful and bump everything up from there.

It might be time to bring the 525i back.

[Raza]

They have the 528i.

[1 BAD 7]

I think the difference between the 535i & 550i is still very decent and I agree with you SJ. The 550i in recent C/D comparison did 0-60mph in 5.1 second with its 360hp and 360 Ib-ft of torque and the 535i is rumored to hit 60 mph in 5.5 sec. which is still a very good difference.

This difference will only expand once the speeds rise because at the end of the day no matter what you say 535i has only 300hp appx. & the 550i is packing 360hp and full healthy dose of monster torque advantage. Is it good enough for people to justify 550i price over 535i then that will be up to each person to determine on their own. I think BMW has already spiced up the 550i sport package with M5 like M dynamic body kit and suspenison/wheels. So those that want the faster car of the two will still go for 550i.

I on the other hand would just get a low mileage CPO 545i with 325hp and 330 Ib-ft of torque as BMW is offering hell of a good deals on them right now.

I don't think this is the same as the GS350/GS430 situation. In that case, the V6 had more HP than the V8. Here, we are talking about a difference of "only" 60 HP. The 550i makes ~360 HP, the 535i makes ~300 HP.

[cawimmer430]

Sounds to me like the 550i will be more "luxury oriented" and the 535i more "sports". The 535i sounds like the car that will be purchased by the enthusiastic driver while an older more cruising oriented BMW-fan will go for the 550i.

It's like the SL55 AMG vs SL600: they both made 500-horsepower but the SL55 AMG was sportier than the SL600.

[ro51092]

Not an overly impressive number. ZOMG it's exactly 1 second quicker than an automatic Toyota Camry V6.

[850CSi]

Sounds to me like the 550i will be more "luxury oriented" and the 535i more "sports". The 535i sounds like the car that will be purchased by the enthusiastic driver while an older more cruising oriented BMW-fan will go for the 550i.

It's like the SL55 AMG vs SL600: they both made 500-horsepower but the SL55 AMG was sportier than the SL600.

Not necessarily, I don't think the 550i will be any less capable dynamically than the 535, although I can see where you're coming from.

Personally, I'd still rather have the naturally aspirated one with two more cylinders, but it's probably not worth the $$$.

[565]

So BMW guys, what's the actual difference  between the 3.0L 325/525 215hp engine. the 3.0L 328/528 230hp engine, and the 3.0L 330/530 255hp engine?  I remember researching the 325/330 difference before, and everyone said double VANOS or other stuff, but it turned out it was a difference in tuning, possibily cam profiles, and a 3 stage intake for the 330 vs a simpler single stage intake for the 325.  Out of the three the intake is the only thing that costs more money.

So is there a difference between the 328 engine and the 330 engine?  Why make it less powerful when it costs about the same to keep it at 255hp?  So basically BMW could introduce the 335, and keep the 255hp 330 as the base car.  From the looks of things, the gap between 328/330 and 335 is huge, so it can't be that BMW is worried about the 328 getting too close to it's big brother.  The only thing I can think of is that BMW is worried about 330 owners getting pissed off that their top of the line car was suddenly made into the entry level car.  In that case I would keep the 255hp engine anyway,  and just underrate it (which might be what BMW actually did). 

So performance wise is the 328 more like the 325 or the 330?

[850CSi]

So BMW guys, what's the actual difference? between the 3.0L 325/525 215hp engine. the 3.0L 328/528 230hp engine, and the 3.0L 330/530 255hp engine?? I remember researching the 325/330 difference before, and everyone said double VANOS or other stuff, but it turned out it was a difference in tuning, possibily cam profiles, and a 3 stage intake for the 330 vs a simpler single stage intake for the 325.? Out of the three the intake is the only thing that costs more money.

So is there a difference between the 328 engine and the 330 engine?? Why make it less powerful when it costs about the same to keep it at 255hp?? So basically BMW could introduce the 335, and keep the 255hp 330 as the base car.? From the looks of things, the gap between 328/330 and 335 is huge, so it can't be that BMW is worried about the 328 getting too close to it's big brother.? The only thing I can think of is that BMW is worried about 330 owners getting pissed off that their top of the line car was suddenly made into the entry level car.? In that case I would keep the 255hp engine anyway,? and just underrate it (which might be what BMW actually did).?

So performance wise is the 328 more like the 325 or the 330?

BMW does this shit because they like to be complicated.?

The only difference between the 325i and 330i was the intake manifold. People on E90Post have tried to mod their 325is into 330is, so far no one's been successful mainly because no one has really given it a serious shot. Either people don't want to mess up their warranties or they find that for the money they would spend on getting a 330i manifold and changing the car's computers, they could nearly just get a supercharger and end up with upwards of 300HP.

The 328i has a detuned 3.0L from the X5. It's probably a little closer to the 325i in performance than the 330i, although you could probably get a LOT more power out of it if you really wanted to (ditto for the other 3.0s). Personally I would have liked to see BMW just keep a 330i/335i line, or perhaps run three levels with a 323i, 328i, and 335i. The reason they didn't do the former is probably because the 330i is so damn fast (we test drove one before buying the 325i, it was telepathic, it probably hit 60 in the high 5s), it would cut into the 335i's market. I don't know why we don't have a 323i. I think BMW could sell a ton of them if they started it out in the high 20s. Our 325 stickered for under 31K, something that's very hard to do now with the 328i.

[The Pirate]

Farris, you're onto something with the 323i.  I just want a straight 6, RWD, good dynamics and a sunroof.  If they could bring in a stripper (relative term) model for less than 30K, I'd be very interested.

I doubt they will, it could interfere with how premium the brand is considered in the U.S.

[850CSi]

Farris, you're onto something with the 323i.? I just want a straight 6, RWD, good dynamics and a sunroof.? If they could bring in a stripper (relative term) model for less than 30K, I'd be very interested.

I doubt they will, it could interfere with how premium the brand is considered in the U.S.

No, that's not why they don't bring it here. Apparently their accountants have determined that the forgone sales of a 323i are made up for by the 328i being more expensive and that enough people who would normally buy a 323 are willing to pay more for the 328.

[JYODER240]

Not an overly impressive number. ZOMG it's exactly 1 second quicker than an automatic Toyota Camry V6.

but after 60 I'd bet that the 335i advantage gets even bigger.

[The Pirate]

No, that's not why they don't bring it here. Apparently their accountants have determined that the forgone sales of a 323i are made up for by the 328i being more expensive and that enough people who would normally buy a 323 are willing to pay more for the 328.

That makes sense.  People like me who wouldn't pony up for the big gun get the shaft though! 

[850CSi]

but after 60 I'd bet that the 335i advantage gets even bigger.

Like I said, a second once you get down into that range is a very significant amount of time. The difference between a 5 and 6 second car is completely different than the difference between 7 and 8 or even 6 and 7.

[850CSi]

That makes sense.? People like me who wouldn't pony up for the big gun get the shaft though!?

Yep.?

BMW doesn't overprice their cars because they think they're holier than everyone else, they do it because it's what maximizes profit. If I can sell 10 things for $25/ea. and 7 things for $40/ea., I'm going to set the price at $40, just like every other rational person. Premium badges seem to have a much lower elasticity of demand.

[cawimmer430]

Not necessarily, I don't think the 550i will be any less capable dynamically than the 535, although I can see where you're coming from.

Personally, I'd still rather have the naturally aspirated one with two more cylinders, but it's probably not worth the $$$.

I wasn't dissing the dynamic driving qualities of the 550i, but I think a lot of older buyers are going to go for the 550i because of:

A) Got-to-have-the-V8-in-my-luxury-car factor

B) They've got the money, and they perceive the 550i to be better because of the V8

Lastly some customers who know more might perceive the 535i as to "boy racerish". 

Just my thoughts. 

[Raza]

Farris, you're onto something with the 323i.  I just want a straight 6, RWD, good dynamics and a sunroof.  If they could bring in a stripper (relative term) model for less than 30K, I'd be very interested.

I doubt they will, it could interfere with how premium the brand is considered in the U.S.

He's on to something?  He's on to something!?  I've been saying that since I found out they sold the fucking thing in Canada and not here.

And damn, they could even sell a 320si here.

[omicron]

He's on to something? He's on to something!? I've been saying that since I found out they sold the fucking thing in Canada and not here.

Everywhere but the US, dear; not just Canada.

[cawimmer430]

And damn, they could even sell a 320si here.

[Lebowski]

He's on to something?? He's on to something!?? I've been saying that since I found out they sold the fucking thing in Canada and not here.

And damn, they could even sell a 320si here.

Americans are a bunch of brand snobs, it'll never happen.

[SJ_GTI]

Its pretty expensive to qualify a new engine, and with the 323i they would have to qualify two new cars essentially, because they would have to do one with the manual and one with the automatic. The incremental sales from the new version would probably be minimal (most of the volume would just come from people who were already going to buy a 328i) and the incremental profit wouldn't be enough to make up for the cost to qualify the new versions of the car.

From what I understand it is much easier to qualify cars with different engines in other markets, which is why a place like Australia or Canada can get more version than we do even though the relative volume is much lower.

[Raza]

Its pretty expensive to qualify a new engine, and with the 323i they would have to qualify two new cars essentially, because they would have to do one with the manual and one with the automatic. The incremental sales from the new version would probably be minimal (most of the volume would just come from people who were already going to buy a 328i) and the incremental profit wouldn't be enough to make up for the cost to qualify the new versions of the car.

From what I understand it is much easier to qualify cars with different engines in other markets, which is why a place like Australia or Canada can get more version than we do even though the relative volume is much lower.

It would put BMW back on my list, though I'm not saying they should do it just so I can have faith in the brand once more.




Fuck that, that's exactly what I'm saying.

[SJ_GTI]

The point I am making here is that its the market regulations that are limiting your choices, not BMW. BMW has obviously done the work to create the engine varieties, but the constraints by our government make it unprofitable to sell those variations in this market.

[Raza]

The point I am making here is that its the market regulations that are limiting your choices, not BMW. BMW has obviously done the work to create the engine varieties, but the constraints by our government make it unprofitable to sell those variations in this market.

I know.  I believe you. 

They could just sell it as a stick, though.  Like the WRX TR, a "tuner ready" BMW 3er.