Tundra suffering 5.7-liter engine failures

[ifcar]

DETROIT (Reuters) ? A glitch in Toyota Motor's Tundra pickup has caused 20 engine failures and forced it to track down other trucks at risk for the problem, the Japanese automaker said Tuesday.

A limited number of early version Tundras have a flaw in the camshaft in their 5.7-liter, V-8 engines, which can cause the engine component to crack and fail, Toyota said.

Toyota has billed the Tundra as its most important product launch ever. Its engine problems come as Toyota faces pressure to maintain its reputation for quality in the face of a stretch of fast growth that has made it the world's largest automaker.

Toyota said it has determined that a flaw in the casting of a still-undetermined number of Tundra camshafts ? made for Toyota's Alabama engine plant by an outside supplier ? prompted the engine failures.

"The supplier has made changes, and we think the problem is solved," Toyota spokesman John McCandless said. Toyota declined to identify the component supplier.

In cases in which a Tundra camshaft fails, Toyota is replacing the truck engine at no charge, representatives said.

Toyota spokesman John Hanson said that the automaker has no plans to inspect vehicles for the flaw and is confident that it can identify what it expects will be a small number of trucks at risk for developing the camshaft problem.

"We're still trying to get our arms around how many could have been affected," he said.

The camshaft is designed to open and close intake and exhaust valves in the engines. A break in the part would cause the truck's engine to shut down or fail to start, Hanson said.

The 5.7-liter V-8 ? the largest engine made by Toyota ? has accounted for more than 70% of the new Tundra sales since the truck launched in February.

Toyota, which overtook General Motors (GM) as the world's largest automaker in the first quarter, sold more than 37,000 Tundra trucks in the first three months on the market in the United States.

The truck, which is being built at a new Toyota assembly plant in San Antonio, Texas, takes aim at a profitable niche still dominated by the Detroit-based automakers.

Toyota has marketed the new Tundra as a full-size work truck fully competitive with the offerings from its Detroit rivals, including Ford Motor's (F) market-leading F-series trucks.

Toyota held back the launch of the Tundra until February in order to produce enough of the 5.7-liter, V-8 engines to meet expected demand.

Other aspects of the Tundra launch have also faced scrutiny, including Toyota's uncharacteristic reliance on incentives of up to $2,500 to boost sales of the truck.

The Tundra also received four-star safety ratings in U.S. government crash safety tests, a lower rating than Ford's competing F-150.

In a bid to capitalize on that gap, Ford began running a series of ads earlier this month that highlight how its F-150 trucks have performed in crash tests.

[Raghavan]

'Yota's feeling the pains of being the world's largest auto maker.

[TheIntrepid]

Pwned. Actually I was casually talking to my uncle (a Toyota salesman) about the Tundra. Apparently the salesmen were taken to a seminar where they had the new Tundra side by side with a Ram 1500 Hemi, an F150 Lariat 5.4 Triton, and a new Silverado. Somehow they were brainwashed into thinking the Tundra's the best of the lot.

[the Teuton]

The more I see the new Silverado and Tundra, the more I see the Silverado as looking really badass and the Tundra as looking like a blob.  If Chevy gets the 6L80E into the Silverado, there will be no more reason for anyone to think Toyota has a better product.  Toyota needs to remember that it is where it is right now because of the quality the company has shown.  5 years of mechanical failures can easily fix that, though.

[TheIntrepid]

The more I see the new Silverado and Tundra, the more I see the Silverado as looking really badass and the Tundra as looking like a blob.  If Chevy gets the 6L80E into the Silverado, there will be no more reason for anyone to think Toyota has a better product.  Toyota needs to remember that it is where it is right now because of the quality the company has shown.  5 years of mechanical failures can easily fix that, though.

What's the 6L80E?

[Raghavan]

What's the 6L80E?

GM's 6speed auto.

[TheIntrepid]

GM's 6speed auto.

Oh. I see. Yeah it sucks that they've got these big trucks on 4-speeds. It's primitive, if you ask me.

[Raghavan]

Oh. I see. Yeah it sucks that they've got these big trucks on 4-speeds. It's primitive, if you ask me.

It gets the job done and is reliable.
For a work truck, that's all that matters.

[Catman]

This is not surprising.  My Sequoia's engine was replaced at 5500 miles.  Though this is a different engine I was expecting quality issues with a new factory and new engine.

[sparkplug]

Those Toyota engines have problems with being too advanced for their own good. Antiquated technology has far superior reliability but who wants that?

[Catman]

Those Toyota engines have problems with being too advanced for their own good. Antiquated technology has far superior reliability but who wants that?

In my experience Nissan makes a better line of engines across their model range.  The VQ is a fantastic engine that has been tuned to perfection.

[Raza]

d00d, this reeks of corporate espionage.  Toyota pwns j00 and j00r reliability!

[GoCougs]

Though Toyota will take the heat, one has to admit that the supplier dropped the ball, not Toyota. And it's only 20 engines.

And to whoever stated that Toyota engines are too complicated for their own good? What? Save for a few hold-outs, the market for decades has been making DOHC engines.

[Raghavan]

I like how GoPubes is already blaming it on a  supplier and not Toyota.

[S204STi]

Though Toyota will take the heat, one has to admit that the supplier dropped the ball, not Toyota. And it's only 20 engines.

And to whoever stated that Toyota engines are too complicated for their own good? What? Save for a few hold-outs, the market for decades has been making DOHC engines.

Yep, same thing happed with Nissan's QR25 engines back around 02-03 (and even lately they are not immune) due to crappy oil rings on their pistons.  Great engine, just fragile due to supplier issues.

Although the whole "tumbler screws falling in the engine" bit was really Nissan's fault...

[S204STi]

I like how GoPubes is already blaming it on a? supplier and not Toyota.

Wow...

Someday you will realize that very few manufacturers actually build anything from scratch.  Everything is sourced from a supplier and assembled in a factory.  There are exceptions, but for huge automakers it's the only way.

[Raghavan]

Wow...

Someday you will realize that very few manufacturers actually build anything from scratch.  Everything is sourced from a supplier and assembled in a factory.  There are exceptions, but for huge automakers it's the only way.

I thought the new Texas factory was the source of the problem.

Cougs, sorry for making fun of you, i just wanted to say that for a long time.

[GoCougs]

No two ways about it, however: Toyota is responsible for the parts that go into their vehicles. They have a rigorous program (as does most any outsourcing manufacturing) of controlling supplier quality for exactly this reason.

However, if it's only ever 20 engines (out of 30,000+) that have failed, then I'm skeptical that any system would have caught this. Any manufacturing process will have bad output. It's a statistical guarantee. Since Toyota copped to and stated that there was an identified problem, it's likely more than 20 engines, and greater than what would statistically be expected.

Exactly what broke down here I'm not sure. It's a bit odd IMO as the 5.7L is a derivitve of the 4.7L (i.e., it's not all-new). Surely the cams are not the same profile, but I'd bet that the same supplier that made the cams for the 4.7L does so for the 5.7L.

[ifcar]

Would you be saying the same thing if it were the Silverado having engine failures?

[SVT666]

It gets the job done and is reliable.
For a work truck, that's all that matters.

I actually hate how the 5 speed auto in my Ram keeps frickin' downshifting and upshifting continuously when I'm driving throught the mountains.  I always press the Tow/Haul button to lock out 5th gear, making it a 4 speed auto.  The only time 5th gear is good for anything is highway cruising on the prairies.  A 6 speed auto in a big pickup would makes me nervous.  If I get a new pickup sometime down the road, the one I get better have a way of locking out 5th and 6th gear.

[Secret Chimp]

I'm not really a fan, but this is the fault of the supplier, not Toyota. Can't do everything.

[S204STi]

No two ways about it, however: Toyota is responsible for the parts that go into their vehicles. They have a rigorous program (as does most any outsourcing manufacturing) of controlling supplier quality for exactly this reason.

However, if it's only ever 20 engines (out of 30,000+) that have failed, then I'm skeptical that any system would have caught this. Any manufacturing process will have bad output. It's a statistical guarantee. Since Toyota copped to and stated that there was an identified problem, it's likely more than 20 engines, and greater than what would statistically be expected.

Exactly what broke down here I'm not sure. It's a bit odd IMO as the 5.7L is a derivitve of the 4.7L (i.e., it's not all-new). Surely the cams are not the same profile, but I'd bet that the same supplier that made the cams for the 4.7L does so for the 5.7L.

When a new vehicle is launched, the engineers involved in development are there at the factory and are actively taking in feedback from technicians about failures of any sort.  So it could be that they discovered the issue existed but a certain number of vehicles (or an unknown number) may have already passed through the factory and onto dealer lots.  All new manufactured engines will have the updated parts, but some of the first-run engines might still have issues.

[GoCougs]

Would you be saying the same thing if it were the Silverado having engine failures?

The Silverado is having warranty-related engine failures.

Any vehicle built in any appreciable amount will have engine failures (and failures of most any kind).

[SVT666]

The Silverado is having warranty-related engine failures.

Really?  I haven't heard that.  Where did you see that?

[GoCougs]

Really?? I haven't heard that.? Where did you see that?

You honestly believe that at a volume of? 50,000 Silverados a month there hasn't been one engine failure?

It's a statistical guarantee.

[ifcar]

You honestly believe that at a volume of  50,000 Silverados a month there hasn't been one engine failure?

It's a statistical guarantee.

If they were having nearly the failure rate of the Tundra, it would be publicized.

[SVT666]

You honestly believe that at a volume of? 50,000 Silverados a month there hasn't been one engine failure?

It's a statistical guarantee.

So you're stating a guess as fact?  You should no better then that Cougs.

[S204STi]

You honestly believe that at a volume of? 50,000 Silverados a month there hasn't been one engine failure?

It's a statistical guarantee.

As a GMC tech, I think I would have heard about that. You were fine until you started talking out of your ass.

[GoCougs]

So you're stating a guess as fact?? You should no better then that Cougs.

Actually, I'm stating statistical fact as fact.

[SJ_GTI]

The more I see the new Silverado and Tundra, the more I see the Silverado as looking really badass and the Tundra as looking like a blob.? If Chevy gets the 6L80E into the Silverado, there will be no more reason for anyone to think Toyota has a better product.? Toyota needs to remember that it is where it is right now because of the quality the company has shown.? 5 years of mechanical failures can easily fix that, though.

From what I understand you can get the 6-speed in the Sierra now, though to you have to pony up for the Denali.

IMHO GM has been too slow to implement 6-speed autos. Obviously they have the hardware, they just don't have the confidence or wherewithal to put it out accross the board (which would involve a lot of production upgrades, not to mention large financial investment).