I want a definitive answer... (clutch question)

[850CSi]

Okay, when I want to downshift quickly, it's best for the transmission (and to not have the car buck like a bronco) to blip the throttle.

Do I HAVE to double-clutch (Neutral, clutch out, throttle, clutch in, gear), or can I blip the throttle in neutral with the clutch in and not cause any damage to the clutch and transmission?

The latter only makes sense to me with a modern transmission but I want to make sure, because I've always double-clutched. That, and I'm not a mechanical guru.

[Eye of the Tiger]

There's not much of a point in double-clutching a modern synchornized transmission.

[The Pirate]

Okay, when I want to downshift quickly, it's best for the transmission (and to not have the car buck like a bronco) to blip the throttle.

Do I HAVE to double-clutch (Neutral, clutch out, throttle, clutch in, gear), or can I blip the throttle in neutral with the clutch in and not cause any damage to the clutch and transmission?

The latter only makes sense to me with a modern transmission but I want to make sure, because I've always double-clutched. That, and I'm not a mechanical guru.

In a modern transmission with syncros, double clutching is not necessary.  I do it sometimes on very cold mornings when the car isn't warmed up yet, and the gearbox is a bit balky.  Other than that, I never do it.

FWIW, my car has 118K HARD miles on the original clutch and tranny.  I just change the tranny oil every 30K miles.

[JYODER240]

If I need to downshift quickly for a turn I just rev-match by heel-and-toeing. If I need to downshift to a lower gear to pass someone I just leave it in gear, push in the clutch, rev-match while selecting the gear I want, then I let out the clutch.

[MX793]

Blipping the throttle before letting the clutch out but not double clutching will reduce clutch slippage during re-engagement, which is always a good thing for your clutch.  You don't even need to be in neutral.  You can shift to the next gear and blip the throttle right before letting the clutch out.

[The Pirate]

Man, you guys are all fancy with your shifting.  I usually just push in the clutch and have my passenger do the shifting, that way I don't have to set down my beer.

[Soup DeVille]

Okay, when I want to downshift quickly, it's best for the transmission (and to not have the car buck like a bronco) to blip the throttle.

Do I HAVE to double-clutch (Neutral, clutch out, throttle, clutch in, gear), or can I blip the throttle in neutral with the clutch in and not cause any damage to the clutch and transmission?

The latter only makes sense to me with a modern transmission but I want to make sure, because I've always double-clutched. That, and I'm not a mechanical guru.

Hell, if you blip it right, you don't even need to use the clutch at all.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Man, you guys are all fancy with your shifting. I usually just push in the clutch and have my passenger do the shifting, that way I don't have to set down my beer.

I just steer with my knees while I'm shifting with one hand and doing whatever else needs to be done with the other hand. 

[S204STi]

Okay, when I want to downshift quickly, it's best for the transmission (and to not have the car buck like a bronco) to blip the throttle.

Do I HAVE to double-clutch (Neutral, clutch out, throttle, clutch in, gear), or can I blip the throttle in neutral with the clutch in and not cause any damage to the clutch and transmission?

The latter only makes sense to me with a modern transmission but I want to make sure, because I've always double-clutched. That, and I'm not a mechanical guru.

Blipping is good for smooth clutch take-up, double clutching is good for helping your synchros.? You should not have to double-clutch unless you notice it being a bit balky, like The Pirate mentioned.  I double-clutch sometimes to help the car get into first gear, because it can be balky at times...stupid Subaru transmission.

[Secret Chimp]

Heel and toe shift if you want, but double-clutching is silly. Sure it's "easy on the synchros," but people don't have their synchros breaking left and right by not doing toodle-doo 1920s fancy feet moves.

[Soup DeVille]

Heel and toe shift if you want, but double-clutching is silly. Sure it's "easy on the synchros," but people don't have their synchros breaking left and right by not doing toodle-doo 1920s fancy feet moves.

Al Jolson is miffed!

[850CSi]

Blipping the throttle before letting the clutch out but not double clutching will reduce clutch slippage during re-engagement, which is always a good thing for your clutch.? You don't even need to be in neutral.? You can shift to the next gear and blip the throttle right before letting the clutch out.

I always learned that in general having the clutch in and giving it any gas with the car in gear was a no-no...

And not only does it help clutch slippage, it enables a much faster and smoother shift.

[850CSi]

Man, you guys are all fancy with your shifting.? I usually just push in the clutch and have my passenger do the shifting, that way I don't have to set down my beer.

[850CSi]

Hell, if you blip it right, you don't even need to use the clutch at all.

Always used to do that with the Audi... Could drive easily without the clutch. I've shifted in the 3er before without the clutch but it's more strict and the range is much smaller.

[850CSi]

Heel and toe shift if you want, but double-clutching is silly. Sure it's "easy on the synchros," but people don't have their synchros breaking left and right by not doing toodle-doo 1920s fancy feet moves.

Yeah, it's pointless to protect the synchros, they're there for a reason.

[850CSi]

SO what I got so far... If I'm rolling along in 1st gear and I shift to 2nd, once I'm in 2nd gear I can stay with the clutch depressed and give the gas a quick stab and then release the clutch? Same goes for downshifting?

I love my transmission but the way it's geared (along with the delay valve) makes it necessary to match revs.

[850CSi]

This video's interesting... Is it me or is he staying on the gas when he's upshifting...?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cPj9XXW25GA

[Soup DeVille]

This video's interesting... Is it me or is he staying on the gas when he's upshifting...?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cPj9XXW25GA

I can't see the video- work filters-but there is a tried and true technique in drag racing in which you never lift the throttle, made famous by a guy named Ronnie Sox.  Its basically a timing game using the clutch only with sort oof a 3/4 pump to get out of gear and a very slight pump to get into the next one. It has to be done in one uninterrupted fluid motion, and is very hard on the gears.

[Soup DeVille]

SO what I got so far... If I'm rolling along in 1st gear and I shift to 2nd, once I'm in 2nd gear I can stay with the clutch depressed and give the gas a quick stab and then release the clutch? Same goes for downshifting?

I love my transmission but the way it's geared (along with the delay valve) makes it necessary to match revs.

You should only need to blip on a downshift; on an upshift the revs should drop by themselves.

[565]

Check out this power shift on the first change and an clutchless upshift on the second.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qdWSyrqEnE4&mode=related&search=

[footoflead]

Okay, when I want to downshift quickly, it's best for the transmission (and to not have the car buck like a bronco) to blip the throttle.

Do I HAVE to double-clutch (Neutral, clutch out, throttle, clutch in, gear), or can I blip the throttle in neutral with the clutch in and not cause any damage to the clutch and transmission?

The latter only makes sense to me with a modern transmission but I want to make sure, because I've always double-clutched. That, and I'm not a mechanical guru.

When I'm driving, i try to blip as much as possible but i don't double clutch.  It is perfectly okay to do that in modern transmission

[VTEC_Inside]

Throttle blipping downshifter here.

Never tried, nor never will bother double clutching unless I end up behind the wheel of some vintage auto.

[heelntoe]

Hell, if you blip it right, you don't even need to use the clutch at all.

on a motorcycle, you can put light pressure on the shifter while you sharply get off the gas and the shifter will fall into gear. 
driving a car without a clutch occasionally, the hardest part is getting off from a start.

[MX793]

I always learned that in general having the clutch in and giving it any gas with the car in gear was a no-no...

And not only does it help clutch slippage, it enables a much faster and smoother shift.

So long as the clutch is fully in, this will cause no damage to anything in your drivetrain whether the car is in gear or in neutral.  If the clutch is in, the engine is completely disconnected from the gearbox and they have no effect on one another.  Anyone who tells you that giving it the gas with the clutch in when the transmission is in gear is bad but that it's OK to do when in neutral has no idea what they're talking about.

[r0tor]

i perfer a double-clutch if I'm doing something like downshifting from 3rd to 2nd around 8k rpms... lots can go wrong with spinning synchros up that hard 

[Raza]

When downshifting, it's best to floor the throttle and the clutch, shift, and then release the clutch as quickly as possible while pulling the handbrake.

[Champ]

i perfer a double-clutch if I'm doing something like downshifting from 3rd to 2nd around 8k rpms... lots can go wrong with spinning synchros up that hard 

You downshift into second so that the engine is at 8k RPM?  What is your redline?

[Raghavan]

You downshift into second so that the engine is at 8k RPM? What is your redline?

Dude, he has an RX-8, 9,000 RPM redline.

[sportyaccordy]

Check out this power shift on the first change and an clutchless upshift on the second.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qdWSyrqEnE4&mode=related&search=

That was SICK!!!

And I blip... again I don't see the point of double clutching or whatever it is, the synchros take care of all that

[MX793]

If you shift really fast, you can sometimes shift too quickly for the synchromesh to adequately match the shaft speeds and you'll end up grinding gears.  Double clutching's the only way to avoid this.