Quote from: Laconian on October 27, 2023, 01:34:17 PMI wouldn't even chase level 5 without a full scale rethink of our roads and signals...

Yup.


WAAAAAY back when the magazines talked about putting tiny metal discs in the center of each lane to guide fully autonomous cars. Wouldn't be a terrible idea.

Or better, Germany uses vinyl sprayed for temporary lane markings (construction). Much better than chewing up a road to 'erase' paint markings. You could use some metal flakes mixed in to "paint" a centerline for autonomous cars to sense and follow.

Plus GPS mapping needs to be included- updates to an area map could be very quick if there is a wreck, construction, whatever.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/21/23971138/tesla-gigafactory-austin-texas-injury-reports-robot-claw-explosion

QuoteOne incident in 2021 involved an engineer who approached a supposed shutdown robot arm but got clawed and pinned to the wall by the machine performing its programmed motions. A witness said the engineer bled from his back and arms, and after someone hit the emergency stop button, the engineer pulled himself out and fell into a chute, leaving a trail of blood.

An injury report submitted to Travis County, Texas, by Tesla reportedly has a robot-related incident but does not clearly match the one from witness accounts. The reported one does not state the person missed any time from work. In unrelated incidents in August 2022, a worker's ankle got caught under a cart, which put them out of work for 127 days. Days later, another worker suffered a head injury which put them out for 85 days.

Other injury reports were more recent. At least one worker was concussed after getting launched back from an explosion in the metal casting area around New Year's 2023. The blast was allegedly caused by water inadvertently mixing into the molten aluminum press machine. A witness who saw surveillance video said the explosion sent a ball of fire and smoke into the air, damaged the die, and curled up a door that seals the chamber. It's not clear if Tesla reported this to OSHA, which reportedly didn't have an inspection for this incident.

Another worker claims the molding machine also didn't correctly seal and often spat out molten metal. When a worker presented a solution to fix the issue, they were reprimanded that shutting it down would slow production output.

In June, contractors installing metal grating for elevated walkways in the factory fell to the ground due to a lack of protective equipment. Some of the metal walkway fell on top of them, leaving them with fractures and a punctured lung. OSHA inspected this incident and fined the contractors.

Are these tales unusual or is it just how things go at a car company?

From the paywalled article that this is essentially a summary of:

QuoteOverall, nearly one out of every 21 workers at the Austin factory got hurt on the job in 2022, according to an analysis by The Information of annual injury reports Tesla files with the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. By comparison, the median injury rate in 2022 among automotive manufacturing plants with 250 or more employees was one in every 30 workers.

That's not great but it might not be out of line for a new plant.

Gonna say it's normal, and FWIW in most cases IME, it's the employee's fault. Just saw a potential case today. Engineer entered a robotic work cell (the kind that will crunch you) without following the proper shutdown/entry procedure - "oh, it's just real quick" (needed to snap a pic of something).

Quote from: Payman on February 23, 2017, 07:17:57 AMIt'll do ok on brand cachet alone, but no doubt the Chevy Bolt will eat into a lot of Model 3 sales.

This aged poorly.

Quote from: Submariner2 on November 23, 2023, 08:07:37 AMThis aged poorly.

Haha. It would not have aged poorly if WtP bought EVs for EVs' sake (esp. back in 2017 whereby the Bolt was clearly the much better product). We largely don't though - WtP buy Tesla, not EVs.

Quote from: Laconian on November 22, 2023, 03:55:24 PMhttps://www.theverge.com/2023/11/21/23971138/tesla-gigafactory-austin-texas-injury-reports-robot-claw-explosion

Are these tales unusual or is it just how things go at a car company?

I'm going to say it's pretty unusual.  The only safety incidents that I've heard of that came even close to something that extreme is what I read on corporate summaries coming out of China or 3rd world countries.

There are OSHA recordable rates.  1 out of 21 employees getting hurt over a the course of a year is an OSHA recordable rate of 4.65.  That's higher than industry average.  Tesla has a history of under reporting though.  You'd be surprised how many dumb things count as a recordable when you follow the rules.  I'm guessing their actual rate is much, much higher.

Quote from: GoCougs on November 23, 2023, 10:28:03 AMHaha. It would not have aged poorly if WtP bought EVs for EVs' sake (esp. back in 2017 whereby the Bolt was clearly the much better product). We largely don't though - WtP buy Tesla, not EVs.

Some truth in jest. In the current landscape there are two players, 'Tesla' and the 'Rest,' with the former having something like 55% of the market. It won't last obviously; the Rest will finally recognize this is only partly about being able to shit out commodity EV hardware. The gold is in the software and the ecosystem.

Quote from: Morris Minor on November 23, 2023, 12:37:10 PMSome truth in jest. In the current landscape there are two players, 'Tesla' and the 'Rest,' with the former having something like 55% of the market. It won't last obviously; the Rest will finally recognize this is only partly about being able to shit out commodity EV hardware. The gold is in the software and the ecosystem.

And that sexy sexy image.

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-insurance/

Lesson learned: really cheap insurance is really bad insurance.

And that "safety score" snitch is really Orwellian. Another case of consumer abuse via vertical integration.

This Autopilot "recall" is retrogressive and arguably dangerous. I hope NHTSA is mandating similar overbearing worthless nagging for all other Level 2 systems in every other car. This is far worse than their road rage-inducing mandatory stopping at stop signs directive for FSD.

https://electrek.co/2023/12/13/tesla-alerts-autopilot-nhtsa-safety-recall/

John Gibbs has a rant:

You need to get out of the Tesla shill YouTube algorithm  

The reality is, Tesla hasn't had the proper hardware to monitor driver attention this whole time.  A crappy fix is on Tesla, not NHTSA.  Most of the other OEMs have capacitive sensors in the wheel, IR sensors to monitor eyes, etc.  Tesla's were fooled by a water bottle wedged in the wheel.

What is the point of handsfree driving that still requires your hands and full driver attention?  Every automakers should either make it work or ban it until it does.

Stopping at stop signs induces road rage...?

Reinforces my perception that Tesla scooped up the worst of the Beemer drivers.

Quote from: MrH on December 15, 2023, 07:42:44 AMYou need to get out of the Tesla shill YouTube algorithm  

The reality is, Tesla hasn't had the proper hardware to monitor driver attention this whole time.  A crappy fix is on Tesla, not NHTSA.  Most of the other OEMs have capacitive sensors in the wheel, IR sensors to monitor eyes, etc.  Tesla's were fooled by a water bottle wedged in the wheel.

No. Tesla started using the cabin camera for driver attentiveness monitoring in 2021.

Please don't to tell me what I need to do.

Quote from: Laconian on December 15, 2023, 10:34:36 AMStopping at stop signs induces road rage...?

Reinforces my perception that Tesla scooped up the worst of the Beemer drivers.

The people behind the Teslas. Going through a neighborhood and actually coming to a full stop at every empty 4-way stop will drive the people behind you nuts.

I've experienced that in California but stop sign etiquette is still kiiind of holding on here.

People are constantly blowing past the stop line ls though. Makes me think I'm going to get t-boned.

Quote from: r0tor on December 15, 2023, 07:51:39 AMWhat is the point of handsfree driving that still requires your hands and full driver attention?  Every automakers should either make it work or ban it until it does.

In practice it takes a lot of the load off even if you hand is still on the wheel and you're watching the road.  I do think that eye tracking would be a much better way to make sure the driver is paying attention. It's too easy to fool the hand stuff by attaching a weight to the steering wheel, which some people are stupid enough to do.  Also if they did eye tracking then you could actually take your hands off the wheel, which would be a nice quality of life improvement.

Quote from: afty on December 15, 2023, 11:34:36 AMIn practice it takes a lot of the load off even if you hand is still on the wheel and you're watching the road.  I do think that eye tracking would be a much better way to make sure the driver is paying attention. It's too easy to fool the hand stuff by attaching a weight to the steering wheel, which some people are stupid enough to do.  Also if they did eye tracking then you could actually take your hands off the wheel, which would be a nice quality of life improvement.

If you have an eyes on the road and a hand on the wheel - why not drive?  If I had to have my foot resting on the brake pedal 100% of the time I don't think I would ever use cruise control.

Quote from: r0tor on December 15, 2023, 12:02:42 PMIf you have an eyes on the road and a hand on the wheel - why not drive?  If I had to have my foot resting on the brake pedal 100% of the time I don't think I would ever use cruise control.

For real. Sitting there staring at the road doing absolutely nothing sounds way worse than just putting in the minimal effort to drive. We have adaptive cruise, emergency/collision avoidance braking systems, lane-keep assisted steering...it's pretty damn easy to "drive" these days.

Autosteer/autopilot might be great in the hands of responsible people, but there are so many shockingly incompetent people on the roads who can't/don't want to understand the limits of these technologies.

Quote from: Laconian on December 15, 2023, 01:14:12 PMAutosteer/autopilot might be great in the hands of responsible people, but there are so many shockingly incompetent people on the roads who can't/don't want to understand the limits of these technologies.

and yet still better than probably 3/4 of actual drivers whom are finger fucking their phones without autopilot.  Te buyers for these systems are primarily these people whom currently would rather do anything else behind the wheel then actually drive.

Quote from: r0tor on December 15, 2023, 01:58:58 PMand yet still better than probably 3/4 of actual drivers whom are finger fucking their phones without autopilot.  Te buyers for these systems are primarily these people whom currently would rather do anything else behind the wheel then actually drive.

You can't deny that there is a pretty nasty downward spiral as we proceed down that path.

In reality the level 2 driving system in the Tesla is light years ahead of what is in the BMW and my dad's Toyota Tundra.

Quote from: Laconian on December 15, 2023, 01:14:12 PMAutosteer/autopilot might be great in the hands of responsible people, but there are so many shockingly incompetent people on the roads who can't/don't want to understand the limits of these technologies.

But it explicitly exists to make people less responsible if not irresponsible.

I spent all of last week in Phoenix. Lots of straight wide, many (MANY) lane roads, so it was easy to watch people drive. Saw so many Tesla drivers using AP not paying a wit of attention to the road.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevebanker/2023/12/18/tesla-has-the-highest-accident-rate-of-any-auto-brand/?ss=transportation&sh=e6ff68d2894d

Somehow newbs crashing 5,000lb cars that can go to 60 in 3 sec is not really surprising

Quote from: r0tor on December 15, 2023, 07:51:39 AMWhat is the point of handsfree driving that still requires your hands and full driver attention?  Every automakers should either make it work or ban it until it does.

It's a beta test for future systems that are genuinely "hands free"

Quote from: r0tor on December 18, 2023, 03:14:56 PMSomehow newbs crashing 5,000lb cars that can go to 60 in 3 sec is not really surprising

IMO the velocitation is just as big a hazard. The excellent NVH of EVs makes them drive faster than they feel.

It really says something that Teslas are outdoing RAM and Nissan, which I assumed were the worst drivers on Earth.

I just started a new thread for this topic: https://www.carspin.club/index.php/topic,36833.msg2569189.html#new

RAM drivers are indeed the worst. "Across 30 car brands analyzed, Ram has the worst drivers. Nationally, Ram drivers had 32.90 driving incidents (accidents, DUIs, speeding and citations) per 1,000 drivers from Nov. 14, 2022, through Nov. 14, 2023. Tesla (31.13) and Subaru (30.09) were the only other brands whose drivers had incident rates above 30.00."