Where do you guys get auto news from these days? What are the best written and most reliable sources?
Things I like: Factual information. Opinions about real cars that the writers have actually driven. Common issues with popular vehicles (recalls and whatnot).
Things I don't like: Rumors and speculation. Unofficial renderings. People getting overly upset about the fact that things change over time.
I kind of started this thread with more traditional journalism like the old car magazines (not necessarily in a print format), but sites for specs or reliability ratings could also be useful.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 03, 2019, 07:55:31 PM
Where do you guys get auto news from these days? What are the best written and most reliable sources?
Things I like: Factual information. Opinions about real cars that the writers have actually driven. Common issues with popular vehicles (recalls and whatnot).
Things I don't like: Rumors and speculation. Unofficial renderings. People getting overly upset about the fact that things change over time.
I kind of started this thread with more traditional journalism like the old car magazines (not necessarily in a print format), but sites for specs or reliability ratings could also be useful.
I use Jalopnik daily for tips, not for the journalism. Then I look for a proper writeup, usually C&D or M/T.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 03, 2019, 07:55:31 PM
Where do you guys get auto news from these days? What are the best written and most reliable sources?
Things I like: Factual information. Opinions about real cars that the writers have actually driven. Common issues with popular vehicles (recalls and whatnot).
Things I don't like: Rumors and speculation. Unofficial renderings. People getting overly upset about the fact that things change over time.
I kind of started this thread with more traditional journalism like the old car magazines (not necessarily in a print format), but sites for specs or reliability ratings could also be useful.
YouTube. A few channels are killing it these days. Tons of garbage out there too though
We're at a weird place for journalism right now, imo. With how fast internet connections are and the fact that you can load up a youtube video instantly, if people are going to stop, sit down, and read an article it better be good. While places like TTAC or Jalopnik kinda thrived during the blogging boom where content content content was the name of the game, I cant anymore. The writing is just garbage and sophomoric; I can't be bothered. On the other hand, with videos, sophomoric writing and trite opinions can be okay with there is some fun personality to back it up. This is where the Straight Pipes guys are imo. Every review of theirs is literally the same, but they are so fun to watch together that its fine. When it comes to video review I pretty much stick with Savegeese, StraightPipes, and Motortrend shows. When it comes to reading I pretty much only sit down for C/D and Motortrend. Otherwise, I just read the article headline for TTAC cause reading the actual article tends to annoy me.
I hate videos. I don't have time for them most of the day and/or don't want to turn the sound on. Articles are skimmable and don't require sound.
Quote from: MrH on February 03, 2019, 09:24:25 PM
YouTube. A few channels are killing it these days. Tons of garbage out there too though
Any specific channels?
Pretty much Youtube, C&D and MT.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 03, 2019, 07:55:31 PM
Where do you guys get auto news from these days? What are the best written and most reliable sources?
Things I like: Factual information. Opinions about real cars that the writers have actually driven. Common issues with popular vehicles (recalls and whatnot).
Things I don't like: Rumors and speculation. Unofficial renderings. People getting overly upset about the fact that things change over time.
I kind of started this thread with more traditional journalism like the old car magazines (not necessarily in a print format), but sites for specs or reliability ratings could also be useful.
Some people are going to HATE this, but you just described Consumer Reports :huh:
Most other stuff is purely entertainment (and not successful in that mission)
I think Morris Minor said the only journalism worth reading is stuff they can charge for... for the most part I agree. CR might not be the flashiest or "purist"-est rag but if you want to know the real deal with a car they will tell you.
Truthfully, the value in places like TTAC and Jalopnik is the opportunity to discuss cars with other people, not the articles themselves. But the Jalopnik comment board is so bad I might give up on the site entirely. They are the brown manual diesel wagon basement dwelling 19 year old hive mind.
Bleh, I hate the 99th percentitle YouTube review... Take a performance car, drive it on the street at 3/10 of its capability... and then claim how amazing it performs :rolleyes:
The only vids I really watch are Leno's Garage. I don't watch new car reviews.
Quote from: r0tor on February 04, 2019, 05:47:21 AM
Bleh, I hate the 99th percentitle YouTube review... Take a performance car, drive it on the street at 3/10 of its capability... and then claim how amazing it performs :rolleyes:
I should actually extend this beyond YouTube to some popular "news" sites with car reviewers
Quote from: r0tor on February 04, 2019, 05:47:21 AM
Bleh, I hate the 99th percentitle YouTube review... Take a performance car, drive it on the street at 3/10 of its capability... and then claim how amazing it performs :rolleyes:
That's less a problem with reviewers and more a problem with how ridiculously over-capable performance cars are today. You could prob cut HP down by 1/3 in a lot of performance cars and they'd be no worse to drive on the street.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 04, 2019, 06:37:07 AM
That's less a problem with reviewers and more a problem with how ridiculously over-capable performance cars are today. You could prob cut HP down by 1/3 in a lot of performance cars and they'd be no worse to drive on the street.
No, if you want to be an auto journalist - then you should have access to facilities and equipment to actually test the cars.
I have read/viewed more then 1 review of the Giulia where the g meter performance display is described as an uninteresting thing with only a red dot.... and that's the truth if you never go above 0.5gs because it only triggers the display above that. So these douchebags were driving around 100% of the time in grandma mode - and still commenting on performance and handling.
Quote from: r0tor on February 04, 2019, 07:06:14 AM
No, if you want to be an auto journalist - then you should have access to facilities and equipment to actually test the cars.
I have read/viewed more then 1 review of the Giulia where the g meter performance display is described as an uninteresting thing with only a red dot.... and that's the truth if you never go above 0.5gs because it only triggers the display above that. So these douchebags were driving around 100% of the time in grandma mode - and still commenting on performance and handling.
This might be relevant if you are buying your Giulia to use as a track car, but if you are trying to trigger the secret G meter display on the street.........................
Not to say most auto journalists aren't shit but if their audience is only driving cars on the street what's the value of taking the car to a race track?
Again though CR has its own test track and facility :ohyeah:
You can pull more then 0.5gs fairly safely on real roads in mildly spirited driving. The simple fact is these "journalists" have no idea on how to or have an aspiration to even drive at 6/10s.... But feel empowered to provide their opinions
There's more to providing opinions on a car than how it drives at 6+ tenths
Even you have a longer list of criteria (otherwise you would have bought something else)
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 03, 2019, 10:44:00 PM
Any specific channels?
The Straight Pipes are crushing everybody right now IMO. Two dudes, one focuses on infotainment and general cabin typically, the other guy is more your conventional enthusiast. Their videos are really well edited, get straight to the point, and give you two perspectives on what it's like to drive. They play off each other really well, and are pretty entertaining too. They've got a few schticks that are fun.
If you want a super nerdy, Consumer Reports style analysis of everything about the car, Alex on Autos is probably the best for that.
Chris Harris is the best driving track reviewer.
Doug Demuro is fun for rare cars.
The Smoking Tire podcast with other car reviewers is great to just listen to general auto blabble. I wish Johnny Lieberman & Matt Farah would just do a regularly scheduled podcast just talking about what they're driving.
As much as the Straight Pipes can be entertaining - they are both a bunch of driving newbs... As are most auto "journalists"
If you want to review cars, at least get some amount of damn driving training.
If I want information of a specific vehicle, I just google it and read as many of the articles as I feel like. They don't all say the same thing.
As for videos, they are, occasionally helpful, but most presenters are just plain irritating.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 04, 2019, 07:10:42 AM
This might be relevant if you are buying your Giulia to use as a track car, but if you are trying to trigger the secret G meter display on the street.........................
Not to say most auto journalists aren't shit but if their audience is only driving cars on the street what's the value of taking the car to a race track?
Again though CR has its own test track and facility :ohyeah:
If you're pushing hard enough to register meaningful gs on the street (or off, in most cases), your eyes should be ahead of you, not on the instrument cluster watching the little g meter.
Quote from: r0tor on February 04, 2019, 08:09:09 AM
As much as the Straight Pipes can be entertaining - they are both a bunch of driving newbs... As are most auto "journalists"
If you want to review cars, at least get some amount of damn driving training.
I don't need Chris Harris to tell me what a Santa Fe is like to drive :rolleyes:
Quote from: r0tor on February 04, 2019, 08:09:09 AM
As much as the Straight Pipes can be entertaining - they are both a bunch of driving newbs... As are most auto "journalists"
If you want to review cars, at least get some amount of damn driving training.
Why? Most people don't give a shit about at the limit feel or whatever. What value does "driving training" have to a typical mom looking at a compact crossover?
Quote from: MrH on February 04, 2019, 08:01:52 AM
The Straight Pipes are crushing everybody right now IMO. Two dudes, one focuses on infotainment and general cabin typically, the other guy is more your conventional enthusiast. Their videos are really well edited, get straight to the point, and give you two perspectives on what it's like to drive. They play off each other really well, and are pretty entertaining too. They've got a few schticks that are fun.
If you want a super nerdy, Consumer Reports style analysis of everything about the car, Alex on Autos is probably the best for that.
Chris Harris is the best driving track reviewer.
Doug Demuro is fun for rare cars.
The Smoking Tire podcast with other car reviewers is great to just listen to general auto blabble. I wish Johnny Lieberman & Matt Farah would just do a regularly scheduled podcast just talking about what they're driving.
I love The Straight Pipes. Such delightful, sunny and content Canadians. I also do Redline Reviews, Matt Maran Motoring, and some stuff on M/T on Demand such as Engine Masters, Hotrod Garage, and Roadkill.
Most print auto journalism is not very good. Not sure if it got worse. I remember C/D being far more biting now it's sorta dorky. M/T has always been sorta dorky/CR-ish. R&T has always been on the fringes.
You guys really aren't giving Savagegeese enough credit. Dude is probably the best independent Youtuber when it comes to reviews, imo. His underbody and chassis walkthroughs are pretty fun and unique in the genre.
Motor Authority is pretty good. Quick and efficient articles.
www.motorauthority.com
Quote from: GoCougs on February 04, 2019, 09:02:32 AM
I love The Straight Pipes. Such delightful, sunny and content Canadians. I also do Redline Reviews, Matt Maran Motoring, and some stuff on M/T on Demand such as Engine Masters, Hotrod Garage, and Roadkill.
Most print auto journalism is not very good. Not sure if it got worse. I remember C/D being far more biting now it's sorta dorky. M/T has always been sorta dorky/CR-ish. R&T has always been on the fringes.
Wooooah. How can you stand Redline Reviews or Matt Maran? I cannot stand either one. Neither is insightful, most verbose, repetitive descriptions ever. Reviews are just drawn out to eternity to try to maximize ad revenue. Just the worst.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 04, 2019, 08:44:34 AM
Why? Most people don't give a shit about at the limit feel or whatever. What value does "driving training" have to a typical mom looking at a compact crossover?
Then why are they testing performance cars and not just minivans?
Obviously it's because nobody would watch them because the subject matter is boring as hell. So instead we fill up the interwebs with "reviews" of cars they can't even drive hard enough get get a feel for it.
Quote from: Rockraven on February 04, 2019, 06:10:48 AM
The only vids I really watch are Leno's Garage. I don't watch new car reviews.
The problem with most YT car reviews (and YT in general) is that they reward long videos with better payback for the content creators. So most of the good reviewers end up with 20-30 minute videos, which I don't care enough to watch unless it's a car I might be interested in purchasing.
YT is also a horrible format for industry news, for similar reasons. You end up with a bunch of 10 minute long videos that contain one piece of factual information 2 minutes in and a bunch of random commentary about that.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 03, 2019, 10:41:01 PM
I hate videos. I don't have time for them most of the day and/or don't want to turn the sound on. Articles are skimmable and don't require sound.
+1. Or they're just shorter to begin with.
Quote from: Xer0 on February 04, 2019, 09:10:10 AM
You guys really aren't giving Savagegeese enough credit. Dude is probably the best independent Youtuber when it comes to reviews, imo. His underbody and chassis walkthroughs are pretty fun and unique in the genre.
Guy takes himself waaaaaaaaay too seriously. It's like a corny drama every time. Can't stand him. He sounds like he's impersonating Matthew Mcconaughey in a Lincoln commercial. I like his editing and camera work, and his underbody shots, but that's about it. He's terrible as an actual host.
Quote from: MrH on February 04, 2019, 10:03:17 AM
Guy takes himself waaaaaaaaay too seriously. It's like a corny drama every time. Can't stand him. He sounds like he's impersonating Matthew Mcconaughey in a Lincoln commercial. I like his editing and camera work, and his underbody shots, but that's about it. He's terrible as an actual host.
Yeah, production value is great, as is his knowledge, but his presentation is way too serious.
Quote from: r0tor on February 04, 2019, 09:45:14 AM
Then why are they testing performance cars and not just minivans?
Obviously it's because nobody would watch them because the subject matter is boring as hell. So instead we fill up the interwebs with "reviews" of cars they can't even drive hard enough get get a feel for it.
??? They do mostly test every day cars.
If I'm buying a 911 or something, I'm not going to watch The Straight Pipes and then buy one. But they'd give me a pretty good feel of what's good and bad about driving one every day. I'll go learn the nuances of feel by driving it myself.
I only watch Motor Trend and Mr. Regular. The majority of Youboob reviews are just ugh. Let's read the window sticker word for word and then play with the radio.
New car reviews are pointless, IMO. The Motortrend stuff like Roadkill, Dirt Everyday, Hot Rod Garage, etc are way more entertaining for car enthusiasts. Although IMO Roadkill has gone downhill a bit.
Remove Before Race is also pretty good. He usually reviews AMGs, but also high-end BMWs and other cars. What I like about him is that he explains things so well in such a simple and elegant manner, and although he's AMG-biased, he will mention and criticize the faults and downsides of these cars. He's the next Chris Harris. :praise:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MsxkKoI-Hs
Love the Star Wars intro here. :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZa9Vc7xBps
Another cool thing about his videos - incredibly professionally filmed. The best part is is how he'd be standing next to the car he's reviewing and, when giving a history about it, the car he's specifically talking about will appear. Cleverly done, see the screenshots below, in this case a quick history of the G-Class.
(https://i.postimg.cc/WpDLfmKm/GClass-1.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/SQwF02FB/GClass-2.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/X7dMnjnp/GClass-3.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bn0r6rvN/GClass-4.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/t4NLVBZb/GClass-5.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fbW17Ym9/GClass-6.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/k5jzTDvh/GClass-7.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/DZ8DHFCf/GClass-8.jpg)
Quote from: Xer0 on February 04, 2019, 09:10:10 AM
You guys really aren't giving Savagegeese enough credit. Dude is probably the best independent Youtuber when it comes to reviews, imo. His underbody and chassis walkthroughs are pretty fun and unique in the genre.
Oh yea he is in the rotation. Working through the RDX review now.
Truthfully there are a good bit of decent enough ones. Maybe too many to actually watch regularly. Off the top of my head, the only channels I regularly check are savegegeese, AoA, Harry's garage, TST and Autocar. I have a MToD subscription just for Engine Masters and the motorcycle channel... the main MT guys are so shameless in shilling for free trips and cool cars it's unbearable to watch. With many of the rest (Straight Pipes, Matt Maran, some of the other big ones) they are good, but I feel like I've heard all they have to say about any car going forward.
Quote from: MrH on February 04, 2019, 10:03:17 AM
Guy takes himself waaaaaaaaay too seriously. It's like a corny drama every time. Can't stand him. He sounds like he's impersonating Matthew Mcconaughey in a Lincoln commercial. I like his editing and camera work, and his underbody shots, but that's about it. He's terrible as an actual host.
I cut him some slack... he's hinted to as much but it's clear he grew up in an abusive household and seems to be working through some anger issues. He is more knowledgeable and goes more in depth than anyone outside of Alex Dykes so that alone makes him valuable to me.
To be totally frank though, cars have become so commoditized and iterative that reviews in general are kind of pointless. A new 911 just came out.... like the last 2 generations, everything has been dialed up by 10% and it looks about the same. You know what you're getting. Surprises in the industry are few and far between, and with the polar + sensationalist nature of the "media" in general these days you really need to wait for real world impressions from owners to come out to get anything meaningful. It's all entertainment. Truthfully all anyone needs to make any kind of left brained car purchase is a CR subscription.
Quote from: MrH on February 04, 2019, 10:03:17 AM
Guy takes himself waaaaaaaaay too seriously. It's like a corny drama every time. Can't stand him. He sounds like he's impersonating Matthew Mcconaughey in a Lincoln commercial. I like his editing and camera work, and his underbody shots, but that's about it. He's terrible as an actual host.
Quote from: MX793 on February 04, 2019, 10:05:40 AM
Yeah, production value is great, as is his knowledge, but his presentation is way too serious.
Oh man, I love it. He's no more serious than the Alex on Autos guy and far more knowledgeable. Plus, his presentation skills are getting better and better every review and some of the "comedy" quirks present in his earlier reviews, like the bodies in the trunk jokes, are thankfully no longer around. His recent review the RDX was great, imo.
Quote from: GoCougs on February 04, 2019, 09:02:32 AM
I love The Straight Pipes. Such delightful, sunny and content Canadians. I also do Redline Reviews, Matt Maran Motoring, and some stuff on M/T on Demand such as Engine Masters, Hotrod Garage, and Roadkill.
Most print auto journalism is not very good. Not sure if it got worse. I remember C/D being far more biting now it's sorta dorky. M/T has always been sorta dorky/CR-ish. R&T has always been on the fringes.
I miss the magazines. I, occasionally, glance at them on the magazine racks, but they just seem very superficial now. Road & Track was the class of the field way back when John Bond was still in charge. With journalists line Henry Manney III covering F1 and Geoffrey Goddard taking brilliant photos, I couldn't wait for the next edition to show up. Car & Driver was my second choice, but not as good.
I think more people should take doing reviews seriously. I blame Top Gear for all the clown shit. TG was funny when I was a teenager but now that shit is boring. I wanna actually know about the car, not whether it can beat an Italian speed boat down the Amalfi coast
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 04, 2019, 10:30:42 AM
To be totally frank though, cars have become so commoditized and iterative that reviews in general are kind of pointless. A new 911 just came out.... like the last 2 generations, everything has been dialed up by 10% and it looks about the same. You know what you're getting. Surprises in the industry are few and far between, and with the polar + sensationalist nature of the "media" in general these days you really need to wait for real world impressions from owners to come out to get anything meaningful. It's all entertainment. Truthfully all anyone needs to make any kind of left brained car purchase is a CR subscription.
Maybe that's my problem. Seems like 99% of what's out there is either pure speculation or super click baity. I've recently become a fan of Engineering Explained but even his video titles border on click bait sometimes.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 04, 2019, 10:37:34 AM
I think more people should take doing reviews seriously. I blame Top Gear for all the clown shit. TG was funny when I was a teenager but now that shit is boring. I wanna actually know about the car, not whether it can beat an Italian speed boat down the Amalfi coast
There's serious yet enthusiastic, and then there's Detective Joe Friday serious. I don't mind if you aren't cracking jokes/puns or doing donuts/powerslides, but at least crack a smile and act like you enjoy what you're doing. Jay Leno's reviews are generally pretty serious, but I never doubt his enthusiasm. DeMuro and Matt Marran go a little too far into the dorky, overly enthusiastic at times spectrum. Savagegeese can seem downright gloomy at times.
One of my favorite things is fist pounding the dash board, which is unpadded plastic in most vehicles, and complaining how cheap it is. Nobody cares.
I don't consume as much auto news as I used to, but a lot of everyone's opinions here mirror mine.
New car news: I use Jalopnik to jump to the press releases. Or what's posted here on the Spin. I get MotorTrend but only glance thru it when I remember to bring it into the bathroom :praise:
Car vids: Redline/Doug Demuro, Savagegeese are too drab/long winded for me.
I do like Straight Pipes because they're just having a good time together, Everyday Driver because they're locals, Petrolicious, Harry's Garage.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 04, 2019, 10:37:34 AM
I think more people should take doing reviews seriously. I blame Top Gear for all the clown shit. TG was funny when I was a teenager but now that shit is boring. I wanna actually know about the car, not whether it can beat an Italian speed boat down the Amalfi coast
I still the TG style stuff is fun when it's done right. The problem is that YTers don't have the budget to do it right.
But that's not to confuse that style of media with proper journalism.
That said, even though I got a little too joke-based at times, I miss the old news segments that they started the show with. Something like a weekly 10-20 minute video highlighting the major auto-industry stories with a few comments for each one would be great. The problem is that most YTers make each one of those stories into a 10-20 minute video.