Honda Extends Warranty on Troubled Turbo Engines
The action affects more than 1 million CR-Vs and Civics after reports of gasoline mixing with engine oil
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/honda-extends-warranty-on-troubled-turbo-engines/

I'm guessing Honda doesn't want to say what the cause of the issue is, but I imagine that would put a lot of owners at ease.

I am in new Civic and Accord FB groups... haven't seen much about engine problems from either but the Accord seems to be struggling with some electric gremlins. Honda is getting spanked for its ambition with this generation of cars.

Yep. I would still trust their cars with NA motors but they should have taken a more cautious approach with turbos. Long term I wonder if the turbo vehicles will be any more reliable than the average VW product?

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 27, 2019, 01:48:51 PM
I'm guessing Honda doesn't want to say what the cause of the issue is, but I imagine that would put a lot of owners at ease.

I am in new Civic and Accord FB groups... haven't seen much about engine problems from either but the Accord seems to be struggling with some electric gremlins. Honda is getting spanked for its ambition with this generation of cars.

For me, it's neck and neck. VW's latest turbo engines seem pretty reliable. If I had to replace my car right now it would be between a GTI or an Accord Hybrid + fun car X.

Accord/Camry hybrid is tempting.

I just saw that there's a 2020 Corolla Hybrid now

Corolla Hybrid is meh. I prefer the Insight

Both are too slow for me though. Wish there were more powerful but smaller hybrid options. Like the Insight with the Accord Hybrid powertrain

Is it? I literally just saw something about it, haven't read any reviews.

I'm tempted to get a new Camry Hybrid. I like the 2019 styling and it'd be fantastic for roadtrips

It's only available in base trim, I'm guessing to protecc the Prius.

Camry Hybrid should be awesome. I think they can do 700 miles on a tank. I want a smaller car next go round though

Yeah my aunt has a ~2015 Camry hybrid and she drove from SC to Ohio on like half a tank

And the oil dilution problem is supposed to be only a big issue in the Canadian provinces and colder US states...
I live in sub-tropical Georgia.
Oil was changed by a Honda dealer May 1st 2019 at 15,088 miles.  Today, 3,056 miles later: -

Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 29, 2019, 03:59:41 AM
Accord/Camry hybrid is tempting.

I just saw that there's a 2020 Corolla Hybrid now

I considered the Hybrid for a split second.  But the 2.0t + 10-speed auto is much better to drive.  No CVT BS.  And 32+ mpg is plenty good enough.  The savings wasn't that big.

Quote from: Morris Minor on July 08, 2019, 07:57:17 AM
And the oil dilution problem is supposed to be only a big issue in the Canadian provinces and colder US states...
I live in sub-tropical Georgia.
Oil was changed by a Honda dealer May 1st 2019 at 15,088 miles.  Today, 3,056 miles later: -

Until Honda has a real solution, all I can say is I would change the oil every 2000-ish miles (and the filter every 6000-ish), and use a higher viscosity oil (5w-30 instead of 5w-20) to compensate for the dilution. I think that would be the best for the engine. But that doesn't matter if you plan on using the Honda dealer for all oil changes for the sake of the warranty. Let the engine die on their terms.

Yeah, this 1.5t oil dilution problem is a real issue.  I don't think it's just a software issue like they claim.  They say they're running too rich at startup, but I think it's a tolerance stackup and thermal expansion issue, which is a biiiiig design problem.

Quote from: MrH on July 08, 2019, 08:48:27 AM
Yeah, this 1.5t oil dilution problem is a real issue.  I don't think it's just a software issue like they claim.  They say they're running too rich at startup, but I think it's a tolerance stackup and thermal expansion issue, which is a biiiiig design problem.

What engine do you have in your accord?

Quote from: MrH on July 08, 2019, 08:48:27 AM
Yeah, this 1.5t oil dilution problem is a real issue.  I don't think it's just a software issue like they claim.  They say they're running too rich at startup, but I think it's a tolerance stackup and thermal expansion issue, which is a biiiiig design problem.

Mike - I'm reading through your "New Crossover for the house" thread...

The CR-V forums are alive with people who've had the supposed "fix" but are still having problems.
I'd planned to keep the car 10 years. I'm thinking trade it in while it still has some reputation, take the loss & chalk it up to experience.
I bought a loaded CR-V because it looked best on paper & Honda had its reliability halo. I just don't want to deal with the BS of bickering with the dealer & disingenuous service reps.

The direct injection system involves (with Fords anyway) a low pressure pump and a high pressure pump. The high pressure pump generates around 1500 PSI, and is driven by a cam lobe, It's mounted on the engine, lubricated by engine oil. If I had a Ford with this issue, the first thing I would expect is an issue with the high pressure pump.

Quote from: shp4man on July 08, 2019, 09:58:48 AM
The direct injection system involves (with Fords anyway) a low pressure pump and a high pressure pump. The high pressure pump generates around 1500 PSI, and is driven by a cam lobe, It's mounted on the engine, lubricated by engine oil. If I had a Ford with this issue, the first thing I would expect is an issue with the high pressure pump.

It seems to me that if the pump or a sensor was faulty, it would trigger a trouble code.
If fuel is leaking into the crankcase instead of being burned, that would cause a lean condition and the fuel trim would enrichen further to compensate, which would exacerbate the problem. Perhaps resetting the fuel trim every day would help.

If any of you have a filled a mower or weed whacker with 2-stroke fuel, you'll know what the dipstick (& my hands) smelled like what I took the photo above.

Quote from: shp4man on July 08, 2019, 09:58:48 AM
The direct injection system involves (with Fords anyway) a low pressure pump and a high pressure pump. The high pressure pump generates around 1500 PSI, and is driven by a cam lobe, It's mounted on the engine, lubricated by engine oil. If I had a Ford with this issue, the first thing I would expect is an issue with the high pressure pump.

When does the fuel get sprayed into the combustion chamber, before, during or at the top of the compression stroke?

Quote from: FoMoJo on July 08, 2019, 10:16:43 AM
When does the fuel get sprayed into the combustion chamber, before, during or at the top of the compression stroke?

It's timed by the PCM. (engine computer).

Quote from: shp4man on July 08, 2019, 10:52:30 AM
It's timed by the PCM. (engine computer).

Does it vary?  I understand that some DI engines spray multiple times, partly for cooling.  Don't know if they all have similar setups.  If the injectors spray at the top of the compression cycle when the pressure is at its utmost...requiring a high pressure burst from the injector...and considering that the 1.5t Honda engine is fairly high compression 10.6, it's conceivable that some of the fuel is forced passed the rings, especially on a cold engine.  I can't imagine, with all of Honda's experience with engines, that they have not fitted proper rings on the pistons, but maybe miscalculated on the effect of the pressure.  They did take great pains to make the engine as efficient as possible, but may have gone a step beyond.

Quote from: FoMoJo on July 08, 2019, 08:57:39 AM
What engine do you have in your accord?

The 2.0t, which seems to be fine.

Quote from: Morris Minor on July 08, 2019, 09:24:10 AM
Mike - I'm reading through your "New Crossover for the house" thread...

The CR-V forums are alive with people who've had the supposed "fix" but are still having problems.
I'd planned to keep the car 10 years. I'm thinking trade it in while it still has some reputation, take the loss & chalk it up to experience.
I bought a loaded CR-V because it looked best on paper & Honda had its reliability halo. I just don't want to deal with the BS of bickering with the dealer & disingenuous service reps.

Yeah, I don't know what's going to happen.  Sounds like you have a pretty bad example.  I would be on Honda's ass, pushing for a buy back.  Then go buy a new Outback or CX-5.  I wouldn't sell it at a massive loss before exhausting every option with Honda.

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on July 08, 2019, 08:33:37 AM

Until Honda has a real solution, all I can say is I would change the oil every 2000-ish miles (and the filter every 6000-ish), and use a higher viscosity oil (5w-30 instead of 5w-20) to compensate for the dilution. I think that would be the best for the engine. But that doesn't matter if you plan on using the Honda dealer for all oil changes for the sake of the warranty. Let the engine die on their terms.

I'd be interested to see if thicker oil helped.

Quote from: FoMoJo on July 08, 2019, 11:51:51 AM
Does it vary?  I understand that some DI engines spray multiple times, partly for cooling.  Don't know if they all have similar setups.  If the injectors spray at the top of the compression cycle when the pressure is at its utmost...requiring a high pressure burst from the injector...and considering that the 1.5t Honda engine is fairly high compression 10.6, it's conceivable that some of the fuel is forced passed the rings, especially on a cold engine.  I can't imagine, with all of Honda's experience with engines, that they have not fitted proper rings on the pistons, but maybe miscalculated on the effect of the pressure.  They did take great pains to make the engine as efficient as possible, but may have gone a step beyond.

When the engine is still cold, they're getting too much blow-by.  They run really rich on cold start up to try to warm up the cats for emission reasons, but it sounds like that's when they're getting all this blow-by.  Everyone is going to less drag on the rings + thinner viscosity oil to try to reduce drag.  Seems like they flew a little too close to the sun on this one.

Quote from: CaminoRacer on July 08, 2019, 12:13:44 PM
I'd be interested to see if thicker oil helped.

It would help with lubrication, but not so much the gas blowing past the rings.
Perhaps using an engine block heater would help.

They should have put the 2.0T into the CR-V.

Quote from: HurricaneSteve on July 08, 2019, 02:30:45 PM
They should have put the 2.0T into the CR-V.

That would hurt the RDX. I think the better engine upgrade would have been the hybrid setup from the Accord.

Quote from: HurricaneSteve on July 08, 2019, 02:30:45 PM
They should have put the 2.0T into the CR-V.

Or just the 2.4 NA that's in the trouble-free poverty spec CR-V
But then their published fuel consumption numbers would look worse.
I suppose though they'd look better if VOCs were included in the numbers.
GreenPeace warriors will not be happy at the smog from the plume of gasoline vapors that trail CR-Vs

You need to lawyer up and get Honda to buy it back or replace the engine... No excuse for that much blowby

Quote from: Morris Minor on July 09, 2019, 08:55:40 AM
Or just the 2.4 NA that's in the trouble-free poverty spec CR-V
But then their published fuel consumption numbers would look worse.
I suppose though they'd look better if VOCs were included in the numbers.
GreenPeace warriors will not be happy at the smog from the plume of gasoline vapors that trail CR-Vs

Couldn't they improve numbers by simply swapping in a super tall final drive and programming the transmission for miserly driving?