http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1212_2013_chevrolet_corvette_zr1_srt_viper_gts/ (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1212_2013_chevrolet_corvette_zr1_srt_viper_gts/)
Despite being on its way out, the ZR1 hands one last blow to the new contender, it's still more civilized, better value, and more capable. A 2.1 second margin around Laguna seca is huge. May the C7 take the vette to even greater heights.
Not one to be a huge Corvette cheerleader, but yeah, the Corvette's generally always been the better car.
I've never been a fan of the Viper - it's just tried too hard to be "crude." There is no reason for the Viper's comfort and driveability deficiencies in a car today.
I would never buy a viper. The daily driveability shortcomings vs a corvette are not worth it and never have been.
The ACR will crush the ZR1, but yeah, the Viper is not a good daily car.
I thought that was a pretty weak article, and after having watched Pobst drive in some of their other comparisons, I don't think he was capable of extracting that much from the Viper. I will wait to see comparisons from more established performance mags like R&T and C&D before I judge whether the ZR1, which BTW is much more expensive than a base Viper w/ track pack, is actually the superior performance car. MT just seems to thrive on putting out flame bait articles, not decent auto journalism.
Frankly, the Viper is substantially better looking inside and out and is much more exclusive to own. For me, that matters, because Corvettes are pretty common, while Vipers are a bit more special. However, I would imagine the C7 will jump substantially forward in all things vs. the C6, though the styling looks pretty lame to me right now (Ferrari front end with no circular taillights). I also know for a fact, since I met people working on the Viper, that there is substantially more performance available from the car.
Never been a fan of the Vipers. It's just too American for me. Big, loud, cheap looking and looks like a rednecks wet dream.
My understanding is it's a good motor looking for a car to be put in.
Quote from: Onslaught on December 23, 2012, 09:16:56 PM
Never been a fan of the Vipers. It's just too American for me. Big, loud, cheap looking and looks like a rednecks wet dream.
My understanding is it's a good motor looking for a car to be put in.
The new one changes much of that, especially on the inside. The fitment and build quality is on a whole different level compared to the last generation. And I will remind you that the last gen ACR is still one of the fastest track day specials in the world, bar none.
Quote from: SVT666 on December 23, 2012, 09:06:59 PM
The ACR will crush the ZR1, but yeah, the Viper is not a good daily car.
Not only is this tested Viper laughably expensive ($125k base, $142k as tested) which likely precludes an even more expensive (ACR) version, the ZR1 is a 4 model years old and is based on a car 9 years old. The ZR1 of the C7 variety will be that much more monster.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 23, 2012, 10:15:08 PM
Not only is this tested Viper laughably expensive ($125k base, $142k as tested) which likely precludes an even more expensive (ACR) version, the ZR1 is a 4 model years old and is based on a car 9 years old. The ZR1 of the C7 variety will be that much more monster.
It is also possibly one of the most highly developed sports cars in the world, wearing probably the stickiest tires you can buy. There will be an ACR, bet on it.
Quote from: LonghornTX on December 23, 2012, 10:31:55 PM
It is also possibly one of the most highly developed sports cars in the world
lolwut?
No car with leaf springs is "highly developed." The race variants of the C6 have different suspension and chassis. GM's technical prowess is in the magnetic particle shocks and brakes.
The same-weight-as-the-ZR1 Viper not only has 50/50 weight distribution its Pirellis are both wider and have a lol treadwear of 60.
If someone was offering me a Viper and a Corvette for no cost and I could choose just one of the two...it'd be the Viper. No questions asked. Corvettes are very accessible compared to Vipers...Vipers still hold a mystique and badassness that the 'Vette cannot compete with.
Quote from: LonghornTX on December 23, 2012, 09:07:00 PM
I thought that was a pretty weak article, and after having watched Pobst drive in some of their other comparisons, I don't think he was capable of extracting that much from the Viper. I will wait to see comparisons from more established performance mags like R&T and C&D before I judge whether the ZR1, which BTW is much more expensive than a base Viper w/ track pack, is actually the superior performance car. MT just seems to thrive on putting out flame bait articles, not decent auto journalism.
Frankly, the Viper is substantially better looking inside and out and is much more exclusive to own. For me, that matters, because Corvettes are pretty common, while Vipers are a bit more special. However, I would imagine the C7 will jump substantially forward in all things vs. the C6, though the styling looks pretty lame to me right now (Ferrari front end with no circular taillights). I also know for a fact, since I met people working on the Viper, that there is substantially more performance available from the car.
Pobst is an accomplished pro race car driver. I trust his abilities. The ZR1 has those magneto shocks that seem to make a huge difference in any car they are installed on.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 23, 2012, 10:48:57 PM
No car with leaf springs is "highly developed." The race variants of the C6 have different suspension and chassis. GM's technical prowess is in the magnetic particle shocks and brakes.
The same-weight-as-the-ZR1 Viper not only has 50/50 weight distribution its Pirellis are both wider and have a lol treadwear of 60.
You don't seem to understand that the leaf springs in Corvettes have several advantages over conventional coils, such as reduced unsprung weight, decreased fatigue rate, and compact packaging. It turns out to be an excellent setup for a high performance street car. The reason the race variants use coilovers is for ease of servicing and parts availability, as they may use different a coil spring and/or damper for each race.
Quote from: SVT666 on December 24, 2012, 01:05:00 AM
Pobst is an accomplished pro race car driver. I trust his abilities. The ZR1 has those magneto shocks that seem to make a huge difference in any car they are installed on.
He is a race driver, yes, but he doesnt seem to be the type that can handle cars like that very well, at least after having watched the other videos he has done for MT
Quote from: GoCougs on December 23, 2012, 10:48:57 PM
No car with leaf springs is "highly developed." The race variants of the C6 have different suspension and chassis. GM's technical prowess is in the magnetic particle shocks and brakes.
The same-weight-as-the-ZR1 Viper not only has 50/50 weight distribution its Pirellis are both wider and have a lol treadwear of 60.
A car with a team of people the size of Corvette's is most certainly highly developed. As a platform, that car gets refined almost every year. Few other cars in its class (save the 911) can claim to have the amount of engineering resources behind it. Team Viper is tiny by comparison. BTW, their brakes are made by Brembo. Most manufacturers outsource their brakes (Viper uses stoptech).
Tread wear does not equal grip. While the viper has wider rubber, those pirellis are not even close to cups.
Quote from: SVT666 on December 24, 2012, 01:05:00 AM
Pobst is an accomplished pro race car driver. I trust his abilities. The ZR1 has those magneto shocks that seem to make a huge difference in any car they are installed on.
Look at this shocks this way: most race tuning is based around the most important section of the track - where you will make or break a lap. These shocks in a way allow you to practically tune to any corner, since you aren't stuck with one compression/rebound setting. It makes all the difference in the world.
While I'm not a big fan of the packaging compromise found in the transverse leaf springs, there is no denying the Corvette is a heavily tuned beast even in stock form. They've basically had to fiddle with it constantly, much like Porsche with the 911, to overcome packaging constraints. Seems like a huge success so far...
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 24, 2012, 05:14:08 AM
You don't seem to understand that the leaf springs in Corvettes have several advantages over conventional coils, such as reduced unsprung weight, decreased fatigue rate, and compact packaging. It turns out to be an excellent setup for a high performance street car. The reason the race variants use coilovers is for ease of servicing and parts availability, as they may use different a coil spring and/or damper for each race.
The only advantage is they're a Corvette legacy throwback dating back 50 years. If they were all that and a bag of chips other sports cars (and exotics) would use them, let alone other GM hi-po vehicles.
Quote from: LonghornTX on December 24, 2012, 09:46:36 AM
He is a race driver, yes, but he doesnt seem to be the type that can handle cars like that very well, at least after having watched the other videos he has done for MT
By his legacy alone we can safely deduce that he handles them very well.
Quote from: LonghornTX on December 24, 2012, 09:53:05 AM
A car with a team of people the size of Corvette's is most certainly highly developed. As a platform, that car gets refined almost every year. Few other cars in its class (save the 911) can claim to have the amount of engineering resources behind it. Team Viper is tiny by comparison. BTW, their brakes are made by Brembo. Most manufacturers outsource their brakes (Viper uses stoptech).
Tread wear does not equal grip. While the viper has wider rubber, those pirellis are not even close to cups.
So what are all these resources doing while the C6 sits stale (itself an iteration of the 8-year-old C5) for 9 model years? Sure they have a team but it's nothing ginormous.
We can safely deduce that the Pirellis are fairly close to the Sport Cups in grip not only by treadwear by lateral grip and braking stats.
GM tells Brembo how to design its brakes. Brembo simply doesn't pull some random stuff off the shelf and ship it to GM. And there is more than just the HW; notably the ABS and stability control systems.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 24, 2012, 10:33:07 AM
By his legacy alone we can safely deduce that he handles them very well.
Not all racing drivers are created equal. His success came largely from SPEED touring/gt class wins where he drove sedans.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 24, 2012, 10:50:07 AM
So what are all these resources doing while the C6 sits stale (itself an iteration of the 8-year-old C5) for 9 model years? Sure they have a team but it's nothing ginormous.
We can safely deduce that the Pirellis are fairly close to the Sport Cups in grip not only by treadwear by lateral grip and braking stats.
GM tells Brembo how to design its brakes. Brembo simply doesn't pull some random stuff off the shelf and ship it to GM. And there is more than just the HW; notably the ABS and stability control systems.
Doing engineering work, testing new parts, tuning the car. Clearly, you are not too familiar with automotive delevopment. And for a niche product like a sports car, Corvette has a massive team.
Again, tread wear does not equal grip. The viper is able to put up similar static figures namely because it has much more rubber on the ground, but there is more to running on a track than braking in a straight line and cornering at a constant radius. There is a reason the ACR ran cups, they are simply the most track capable tire that can still be street driven. One need only look at the treads of the two tires to see their purposes.
Actually, for the carbon ceramics, they are pretty much off the shelf and are very similar to the ones Ferrari uses. But yes, their tuning of the abs and stability systems is proprietary. Again, this is where having a large team and lots of cash help because those tuning processes take a lot of time.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 24, 2012, 10:50:07 AM
So what are all these resources doing while the C6 sits stale (itself an iteration of the 8-year-old C5) for 9 model years? Sure they have a team but it's nothing ginormous.
We can safely deduce that the Pirellis are fairly close to the Sport Cups in grip not only by treadwear by lateral grip and braking stats.
GM tells Brembo how to design its brakes. Brembo simply doesn't pull some random stuff off the shelf and ship it to GM. And there is more than just the HW; notably the ABS and stability control systems.
C6 is not a refreshed C5. It was a new car.
Quote from: MX793 on December 24, 2012, 11:37:56 AM
C6 is not a refreshed C5. It was a new car.
I didn't use the word "refresh." It's a new car but a relatively minor (mechanical) iteration of the C5 notably in the space frame chassis, F/R suspension and engine.
Well, I mostly agree with Longhorn here. The Cup tires are a pretty big advantage. Chrysler is claiming Pobst has always struggled with the Viper and he wasn't as close to the limits as he thought he was. I buy both of those claims. At the same time, the vette's shocks are still the top dog in the game. Not sure what the shocks on the Viper are like. I know they're adjustable, but I'm guessing it's mechanical manipulation of the valving? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
But I would take the Viper any day over the corvette. Vipers are special in a way few other cars are. The V10, the looks, the sound, the proportions... It's definitely a car I'd have in my garage if I won the lottery. It's the ultimate American Muscle hammer of a car.
Been in tons of corvettes, and it just doesn't compare to the ridiculousness of the Viper. If it was a daily driver though, the corvette would be easier to live with. Apparently the new Viper has closed that gap though.
Lap times are all about confidence, and apparently the ZR1s trick shocks provide enough of it to allow the driver to exploit it's ablilities.
Pobst is a biased idiot, he lost all credibility with me in the M/T 1M group test with his absolutely outrageous and outlier comments. At the time he was getting his ass kicked week in and week out in the ALMS by the Rahal M3s.
The Corvette is the better car here, but the Viper has always been way cooler. It's a beast.
Yep... sometimes the better car, ISN'T the better car.
I like the Viper more personally... everyone and their 56 year old bachelor Uncle Rico has a Vette. But I can't think of anywhere the Viper would be more fun to drive, esp when you throw the magnetic shocks in the mix. Its a relic surviving on ideological appeal, but since it appeals to my biases I am OK with it.
To me the 'Vette is the better looking and more desirable car of the two.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 24, 2012, 10:16:10 PM
Yep... sometimes the better car, ISN'T the better car.
I like the Viper more personally... everyone and their 56 year old bachelor Uncle Rico has a Vette. But I can't think of anywhere the Viper would be more fun to drive, esp when you throw the magnetic shocks in the mix. Its a relic surviving on ideological appeal, but since it appeals to my biases I am OK with it.
Relic? It's an all new car.
Quote from: SVT666 on December 24, 2012, 10:18:19 PM
Relic? It's an all new car.
How dare you let facts get in the way of the sportySPIN?!
:lol:
Quote from: SVT666 on December 24, 2012, 10:18:19 PM
Relic? It's an all new car.
Then why does it have so many of the flaws of the old one
Who said it had a lot of flaws?
SPORTYSPIN!
Funny how invigorated you are here, why not come back to the Obama voter thread and continue in your convenient "truths"
Viper is still hard to drive at the limit and still punishing on the street... but I love its absurdity
Ah, i hadn't seen you replied. I'll be sure to add a feisty response to my to-do list tomorrow.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 24, 2012, 10:43:48 PM
Viper is still hard to drive at the limit and still punishing on the street... but I love its absurdity
It is definitely not punishing on the street. This car is an entirely different beast than the last gen. But, at the end of the day, this car was originally designed to be a modern day Cobra and I am glad that this gen retained the cars preference for skilled drivers.
Let us not forget that similar words were written about the ZR1 when it first came out. Back then it didn't have these tires though.
Oh jeeze...
FWIW if the Viper does in fact have adjustable coilovers, I'd rather than over the Vette for actual track use. Far greater ability to tune the chassis.
The Viper is the American Countach. Perhaps best left on a bedroom wall than in a garage.
But damn if it isn't pretty to behold. And such a boners car. Yes, the Corvette is pedestrian in comparison. Money no object, I'd take the Viper. With my own nickels and dimes, I'd buy a base model Corvette.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 24, 2012, 10:16:10 PM
Yep... sometimes the better car, ISN'T the better car.
I like the Viper more personally... everyone and their 56 year old bachelor Uncle Rico has a Vette.
Your uncle sounds like a pretty cool dude.
Seriously, I always lol at the "exclusivity" rationale when used on cars. Very few cars are exclusive, and the list includes virtually no new cars IMO. If you walk into a dealership, they'll take your money. That the Corvette is a far better value, far easier to live with day to day, and in the end a far better seller is hardly a negative.
Yes SportySpin, the better car
is the better car.
ZR1s aren't common anyway.
Rather have a Z06.
Quote from: hotrodalex on December 25, 2012, 10:35:46 AM
ZR1s aren't common anyway.
True! I see more Vipers than ZR1.
Quote from: 68_427 on December 25, 2012, 12:04:08 PM
Rather have a Z06.
To be honest I'd rather have a GS if I'm spending my own money. I wouldn't see many track days so the Z06 would be a waste of money! And i would still be able to have the targa top.........
A base Corvette is what I would go for. It's got tons more performance than I could ever use on the street and the closest track is over 4 hours away.
When/if the LS7 goes away I will cry.
Quote from: 68_427 on December 25, 2012, 12:32:26 PM
When/if the LS7 goes away I will cry.
The Camaro is getting the LS7 in a special edition car in 2014. Likely to be named the Z28.
Quote from: Lebowski on December 25, 2012, 07:45:26 AM
Your uncle sounds like a pretty cool dude.
Seriously, I always lol at the "exclusivity" rationale when used on cars. Very few cars are exclusive, and the list includes virtually no new cars IMO. If you walk into a dealership, they'll take your money. That the Corvette is a far better value, far easier to live with day to day, and in the end a far better seller is hardly a negative.
Yes SportySpin, the better car is the better car.
Nah...
Raza hit the nail on the head with the Countach analogy. Objectively the Countach is crap. But I'd rather have one than a Corvette. Its more exclusive in that its not as common. And that's not "Sportyspin" :rolleyes:.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 25, 2012, 06:12:13 PM
Nah...
Raza hit the nail on the head with the Countach analogy. Objectively the Countach is crap. But I'd rather have one than a Corvette. Its more exclusive in that its not as common. And that's not "Sportyspin" :rolleyes:.
Hit the nail on the head when he said best left on the bedroom wall?
SportySpin - where logic and objectivity need not apply.
The better car is the better car Sporty.
Quote from: Lebowski on December 25, 2012, 06:17:03 PM
Hit the nail on the head when he said best left on the bedroom wall?
SportySpin - where logic and objectivity need not apply.
The better car is the better car Sporty.
The objectively better car isn't always the better car for an individual... if it was we would all have used Corollas for daily drivers
Nobody would buy a Ferrari, they would just buy GT-Rs and Corvettes
Etc.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 25, 2012, 06:29:23 PM
The objectively better car isn't always the better car for an individual... if it was we would all have used Corollas for daily drivers
Nobody would buy a Ferrari, they would just buy GT-Rs and Corvettes
Etc.
If a corolla had comparable performance, which it doesn't. Analogies have never been your strong suit, Sporty. Stick to Strawmanism and the race card.
Ferraris don't have the driveability compromises of the Viper. Analogyfail #2 SportySpin.
The better car is the better car Sporty.
Of course it's up to the individual but trying to twist objectively better sales results into a negative vis a vis the "exclusivity" angle is entirely wrong.
pwned
Quote from: sportyaccordy on December 25, 2012, 06:29:23 PM
The objectively better car isn't always the better car for an individual... if it was we would all have used Corollas for daily drivers
Nobody would buy a Ferrari, they would just buy GT-Rs and Corvettes
Etc.
Viper is too big
Quote from: Catman on December 25, 2012, 09:24:45 PM
Viper is too big
CatSPIN: where everything looks too big, because you are a cat.
Quote from: 68_427 on December 25, 2012, 10:46:13 PM
The Viper is shorter than the 911.
And the 911 is just a rebadged Beetle, a large sport utility vehicle.
Quote from: SVT666 on December 24, 2012, 01:05:00 AM
The ZR1 has those magneto shocks that seem to make a huge difference in any car they are installed on.
Yep, the Viper got Magneowned, that's my new neologism for when those magneto shocks let a car drive circles around another car that is similar or better on paper in the handling department. The ZR1 magneowned the Viper the same way the ZL1 magneowned the GT500, and the same way the ATS magneowned the entire entry level sports sedan field (including the new 3 series).
(http://s2.postimage.org/nd36r43u1/Magneowned.jpg)
I feel the need to say this again, Nissan needs to use these shocks on the GT-R. It would be like the Incredible Hulk wielding Thor's hammer.... unstoppable.
Quote from: Lebowski on December 25, 2012, 07:45:26 AM
Your uncle sounds like a pretty cool dude.
Seriously, I always lol at the "exclusivity" rationale when used on cars. Very few cars are exclusive, and the list includes virtually no new cars IMO. If you walk into a dealership, they'll take your money. That the Corvette is a far better value, far easier to live with day to day, and in the end a far better seller is hardly a negative.
Yes SportySpin, the better car is the better car.
Completely agree. Can't see trading the vanity of exclusivity for an admittedly lesser product.
Quote from: 565 on December 26, 2012, 09:13:44 AM
Yep, the Viper got Magneowned, that's my new neologism for when those magneto shocks let a car drive circles around another car that is similar or better on paper in the handling department. The ZR1 magneowned the Viper the same way the ZL1 magneowned the GT500, and the same way the ATS magneowned the entire entry level sports sedan field (including the new 3 series).
(http://s2.postimage.org/nd36r43u1/Magneowned.jpg)
I feel the need to say this again, Nissan needs to use these shocks on the GT-R. It would be like the Incredible Hulk wielding Thor's hammer.... unstoppable.
It is quite something else to see the rise of GM engineering. Rather than throwing power or cubic inches or exclusivity or H&H
TM, GM just got down to the business of engineering.
BWI makes these, not GM...
Quote from: MrH on December 26, 2012, 10:58:53 AM
BWI makes these, not GM...
True, however, it all began in the '90s when Delphi was a division of GM, and today GM is still pulling the strings on the technology and its application (which takes a lot of engineer too - it's simply just no bolting on these shocks) primarily because it's pretty much the only customer.
Yeah, but BWI holds the patents and they're able to sell them to other OEMs is the point I'm trying to make. Ferrari uses them and I think Audi does in the R8 too.
True though, I couldn't just buy a set of these and bolt them into my car and start destroying everything on the track. It's just as much the GM engineers working with the supplier to get these working and tuned properly.
I'm curious if GM has some sort of purchasing agreement (ie, they can't sell them to their direct competitors in some market segments)? Or are is GM so far ahead of their competition with utilizing these effectively that no one else is taking the jump really? Or do other OEMs think these are too expensive?
It's kind of an interesting situation. It's hands down the biggest game changer in terms of technology in performance cars right now. Why isn't everyone jumping on board?
I'm going to guess B - the tech has been in GM's stable for quite some time.
Vette for me.
If I wanted exclusive I could always buy a Suzuki too for the price diff indicated in that article.
I'd ratehr have the Viper. Boththe cars have more capability than I'd ever need on teh street, and track times are just mental masturbation compared to the simple fun of driving them. Ive driven the older Viper GTS as well as many Corvettes, adn I'd simply rather drive the Viper.
Me in an older viper I got to play around with for an afternoon:
(http://home.comcast.net/~cvetters3/cviper3.jpg)
And what I'd own right now over any modern Corvette:
(http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/188147/3377629d.jpg)
(http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/188147/3377667c.jpg)
I'd rather look at it every day of the week. I'd rather drive it every day of the week.
Yesssssssss. :wub:
IMO the Viper is rejectable simply on exhaust note alone. The GM pooprod sounds a millions times better.
So if performance is a non issue why is presumably comfort, drivability, quality, etc.?
The ZR1 just looks better. The Viper tries too hard.
(http://forums.corvetteforum.com/attachments/c6-corvette-zr1/47641193d1249640966-cyrstal-red-zr1-pictures-yet-zr1review1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselstation.com/wallpapers/albums/Chevrolet/2009-Corvette-ZR1/corvette-zr1-01.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YQm_qZBvDGU/ThfX_y6k9EI/AAAAAAAAAEA/ykLrP8JWxdo/s1600/112_0802_01z%252B2009_chevrolet_corvette_ZR1%252Brear_three_quarter_view.jpg)
I think a normal C6 looks better then both the Viper or ZR1. Just like the normal Mustang GT looks 10 times better then all the Boss ones. They sure like throwing scoops and shit all over the "better" cars.
Well, the only the non-functional addition to the ZR1 is the hood window (and yes, I think it looks tacky). The functional scoops are about as minimal as can be (unlike the lol Viper scoops).
I'd rather have the Viper.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 26, 2012, 04:31:35 PM
So if performance is a non issue why is presumably comfort, drivability, quality, etc.?
Quality? The metric of a princess who can feel the pea under 10 matresses, more like. They are equally as comfortable to me (and I love the interior of the new VIper), and I have no problems dirivng the Viper. I LIKE the slightly more raw feeling, more of a machine that needs to be respected. And I think it simply looks 100% better. And if I'm going to dream about supermodels, it's the supermodel *I* would rather date, not the supermodel YOU would rather date.
Quote from: Lebowski on December 25, 2012, 07:45:26 AM
Your uncle sounds like a pretty cool dude.
Seriously, I always lol at the "exclusivity" rationale when used on cars. Very few cars are exclusive, and the list includes virtually no new cars IMO. If you walk into a dealership, they'll take your money. That the Corvette is a far better value, far easier to live with day to day, and in the end a far better seller is hardly a negative.
Yes SportySpin, the better car is the better car.
Says a guy hasn't been around many exotic cars or their owners. Exclusivity does make a difference, and it is why people cherish Aston Martins Vantages more than a categorically superior car like the 911. It is handbuilt, by craftsmen, and there is something endearing to that. Similarly, the viper is also hand built, and to be honest, the build quality and materials of the gts are vastly superior to the zr1. By comparison, the zr1 looks much cheaper.
And yes, I have driven both cars. Both are amazing to drive and nobody would be dissapointed with either. But I would choose the car that is better made, better looking, more fun to drive and is a tire switch away from being the better track car.
Quote from: ChrisV on December 27, 2012, 12:27:39 PM
Quality? The metric of a princess who can feel the pea under 10 matresses, more like. They are equally as comfortable to me (and I love the interior of the new VIper), and I have no problems dirivng the Viper. I LIKE the slightly more raw feeling, more of a machine that needs to be respected. And I think it simply looks 100% better. And if I'm going to dream about supermodels, it's the supermodel *I* would rather date, not the supermodel YOU would rather date.
I gotcha. My point was, I'll take the model that is much more liveable in day-to-day driving (in addition to being vastly better sounding).
Quote from: GoCougs on December 28, 2012, 03:39:42 PM
I gotcha. My point was, I'll take the model that is much more liveable in day-to-day driving (in addition to being vastly better sounding).
Oooooooo....bold claim. I disagree. V10s are goofy sounding. I love them, apparently you don't. :cheers:
Quote from: LonghornTX on December 28, 2012, 03:01:25 PM
Says a guy hasn't been around many exotic cars or their owners. Exclusivity does make a difference, and it is why people cherish Aston Martins Vantages more than a categorically superior car like the 911. It is handbuilt, by craftsmen, and there is something endearing to that. Similarly, the viper is also hand built, and to be honest, the build quality and materials of the gts are vastly superior to the zr1. By comparison, the zr1 looks much cheaper.
And yes, I have driven both cars. Both are amazing to drive and nobody would be dissapointed with either. But I would choose the car that is better made, better looking, more fun to drive and is a tire switch away from being the better track car.
I don't doubt it matters to some but I still lol @ their rationale. I'm not the type that would buy an Aston over a 911, though.
More importantly it's pretty much irrelevant wrt zr1 vs viper or 99% of other current production cars. We're not talking about a Porsche 959 here, neither will turn down your money.
I realize this all comes down to individual choice I just think "exclusivity" is a stupid rationale here. In the end the Viper is only more "exclusive" inasmuch as the Vette is a far more commercially successful program, just as Porsche is far more commercially successful than Aston.
Quote from: MrH on December 28, 2012, 03:41:06 PM
Oooooooo....bold claim. I disagree. V10s are goofy sounding. I love them, apparently you don't. :cheers:
I was referencing only the VIPER V10. Sounds terrible.
Quote from: Lebowski on December 28, 2012, 05:32:39 PM
I don't doubt it matters to some but I still lol @ their rationale. I'm not the type that would buy an Aston over a 911, though.
More importantly it's pretty much irrelevant wrt zr1 vs viper or 99% of other current production cars. We're not talking about a Porsche 959 here, neither will turn down your money.
I realize this all comes down to individual choice I just think "exclusivity" is a stupid rationale here. In the end the Viper is only more "exclusive" inasmuch as the Vette is a far more commercially successful program, just as Porsche is far more commercially successful than Aston.
There are a ton more Corvettes out there because they have traditionally started at a much lower price. Just as Porsches are usually much cheaper than Astons. Different markets more than differing levels of commercial success IMO.
And you are right, for a lot of people, exclusivity doesn't matter. However, for someone like me, and others here it seems, not seeing another car like yours everyday matters. I like Corvettes, they are great cars and a great value, but I see a few of them a day around Austin. I see Vipers significantly less often, to the tune of a couple a month at most. It is a niche product compared to the Corvette, and always has been. They have never tried to make it a volume product like the Corvette. If I was buying one of these cars to be my only car, I would absolutely pick the Corvette. A friend of mine did that twice with C5 Z06s.
For me, something like this would be a 2nd car, one that I take out on perfect days, just to put a grin on my face, to take to the track, or a night on the town. For me, the Viper is better at that. Add to that how much more "special" the car feels inside and out with this newest generation, it is a no brainer, considering that for most mortals like us, the performance is the same. And, given this one test, I am not even convinced that the ZR1 is any better performance wise. That will likely change in a big way with the C7, since it is slated to be a better built car inside and out, and will likely be a quantum leap forward in performance.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 28, 2012, 05:42:50 PM
I was referencing only the VIPER V10. Sounds terrible.
It is definitely unique. I like it for what it is, but it is not classically beautiful like a V8 or traditional V10. Totally fitting for the car's image IMO though
Vette for me.
Quote from: MrH on December 26, 2012, 12:09:14 PM
Yeah, but BWI holds the patents and they're able to sell them to other OEMs is the point I'm trying to make. Ferrari uses them and I think Audi does in the R8 too.
True though, I couldn't just buy a set of these and bolt them into my car and start destroying everything on the track. It's just as much the GM engineers working with the supplier to get these working and tuned properly.
I'm curious if GM has some sort of purchasing agreement (ie, they can't sell them to their direct competitors in some market segments)? Or are is GM so far ahead of their competition with utilizing these effectively that no one else is taking the jump really? Or do other OEMs think these are too expensive?
It's kind of an interesting situation. It's hands down the biggest game changer in terms of technology in performance cars right now. Why isn't everyone jumping on board?
To answer your question: in regards to the shocks, it's not that GM is far ahead. They are quite an expensive add on, but the larger issue is the tuning. It takes a fair amount of effort to get the shocks to perform like they do on the Corvette, and the Camaro.
The exclusivity issue you mention I honestly have no clue about.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 26, 2012, 04:34:14 PM
The ZR1 just looks better. The Viper tries too hard.
(http://forums.corvetteforum.com/attachments/c6-corvette-zr1/47641193d1249640966-cyrstal-red-zr1-pictures-yet-zr1review1.jpg)
(http://www.dieselstation.com/wallpapers/albums/Chevrolet/2009-Corvette-ZR1/corvette-zr1-01.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YQm_qZBvDGU/ThfX_y6k9EI/AAAAAAAAAEA/ykLrP8JWxdo/s1600/112_0802_01z%252B2009_chevrolet_corvette_ZR1%252Brear_three_quarter_view.jpg)
The overall car looks good, but all the tinsel (the air vents, the rear diffuser, even the whole greenhouse) looks cheap and tacked on.
More ZR1 dominance.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2013-srt-viper-gts-vs-2013-chevrolet-corvette-zr1-comparison-test (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2013-srt-viper-gts-vs-2013-chevrolet-corvette-zr1-comparison-test)
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette/2012/comparison-test1.html (http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/corvette/2012/comparison-test1.html)
Not that it's a bad car, but is anyone here surprised it isn't as polished as the Vette?
Cougs will tell us again that there's no real excuse for it, but Viper fans are every bit as loyal as Vette fans; perhaps even more so, partaking of the Mopar fanaticism as a sort of collective defense against the bigger players in the market: And what Viper fans want is a certain lack of polish.
There's no real excuse for it (in a $140,000 car).
Quote from: Char on January 28, 2013, 01:16:55 AM
Not that it's a bad car, but is anyone here surprised it isn't as polished as the Vette?
You say polished, Viper enthusiasts say raw, assuming you are talking about performance. Because otherwise, the Vette is significantly less polished in other ways as a car. Its build quality and overall level of fit and finish is no where near the Viper's. So while the Viper is a $140,000 car, as it is optioned here, it actually feels like one inside and out, where as the ZR1 doesn't feel like even an $80,000 car, much less a $125,000 one. But, at the end of the day these two cars are about performance, so the Viper's significantly better dash/EVIC and infotainment systems don't get much play.
I also find it hilarious that both reviews note how much better the Sport Cups are as a tire, despite some healthy CougSPIN