The amount of incompetency with car dealerships is incredible. I don't even know what to say anymore. Let me take you on this journey. I'm at a lost for words at some of this.
So Accords are discounted pretty big right now, trade in value on the 4Runner is massive but will be taking a big depreciation dive next year, it's pretty much a one for one trade and I'd get a vehicle that's 3 years newer, 55k fewer miles, $100/month better on gas, and tons of autonomous driving features that should make my hellish commute less painful every day. I don't totally have my mind made up, but it's intriguing enough to get quotes.
Dealership #1 (Joe Morgan Honda, smaller in size):
- Stop in on my way home from work. They are short sales staff. Meet a nice guy, ask for a test drive. He throws me the keys and I go out for a drive. I come back, get his card. Overall, pretty pleasant. Look at the inventory later. They don't have what I want, but I emailed him asking for a quote. That was a week ago, no response :huh:
Dealership #2 (King's Honda. MASSIVE dealership that has just about every OEM you can imagine all in one place. Biggest dealership in Cincinnati by far):
- Send an email to them asking for a quote and even pick a specific car on their lot. Zero response.
- I go to the dealership in person a few days later. Walk around for 15-20 minutes, no one there to wait on me. No one approaches me. I walk the entire lot but can't find the one color I wanted to see in person. Walk out frustrated.
Does nobody want to sell me a car?! What is going on.
Then I made the mistake of asking for a quote through TrueCar. Here are the responses I get from the 3 participating dealers:
A. King's Honda
- They have 5 different people reach out to me, through text, email, and voicemails. Absolutely insane. They're all asking the same thing worded different ways. I responded to the first one, asking for a quote, and got nothing back. I reach out to another and tell her to call off the cavalry, I can't keep up with the assault on all forms of communication, just give me one name to email. I now get a response from the first lady apologizing for the confusion, asking me if I have any questions. I literally just forward the same email I sent her two days ago. Radio silence again :facepalm:
B. Castrucci Honda
- I put down I would prefer to get contacted via email. I get a long winded voicemail with lots of "uhhh" and they call me Mark the whole time.
C. White Allen Honda
- A reasonable girl responds! At least so I think. We exchange a few emails, she gives me a pretty solid price on the Accord, asks if I want to trade in. I said maybe, provide 4Runner info. She asks for VIN, mileage, and payoff amount. I told mileage and VIN, told her don't worry about payoff, I can calculate my loan situation. I would be up for using the promo 1.9% for 36 months from Honda if she gets a kick back and can get me a better overall price.
She then responds with my monthly payment with no trade in, and asks if I have a trade in? I feel like I'm in Ground Hogs day. I tell her yes, see above, give me a quote on the trade in. She responds asking for the VIN and mileage again. I tell her to read what I just sent her two emails ago.
I'm just in total disbelief. Why are they all so bad at this? Why do all of their websites look like a newspaper ad from 1990? :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: I'm just going to keep the 4Runner until I die. This is too painful.
Dealership websites are certainly atrocious. Don't understand.
Sounds like a lot of mismanagement, both on the side of the salespeople and their managers. Lack of training, perhaps. Dealerships are like Best Buy. They're either hounding you when you wanna just be left alone and browse, or there's nobody to be found when you actually do have a question. :lol:
Hey, Best Buy has been way more professional lately- as long as I talk to the big guy with the gauges.
This is even worse than Best Buy customer service. This ranks right up there with Lowes, Sprint, Kmart, and Burger King.
Weird, I've never had these issues with getting a quote. When helping my dad buy his new Accord Sport like three months ago, I had quotes from 4 local Honda dealers, and 3 competing Toyota dealers for the Camry, within two days of requesting. Maybe try and get a quote from a Chicagoland dealer? If they are this incompetent they probably won't notice its nowhere near them :lol:
Sounds like Honda might be needing to do a little regulating on their dealers. :lol:
But seriously, incompetent employees are a big problem at some stores.
If you really want to throw a salesperson for a loop, try to keep the discussion to OTD price instead of monthly payment. And/or tell them you're not financing.
Wow, that's unfortunate that the dealerships in your area are so difficult to get a proper response out of. My guess on the poor customer service is the high turnover rates at car dealerships. When I went to the local Mazda dealership the other day, the guy who sold me my MX-5 last year is no longer there and I didn't recognize anyone else. Last year when I was looking into a Fiesta ST, I asked a Ford store for the person I had been in touch with and they said that person was no longer there and I had gotten an e-mail from him only 2 weeks prior.
Quote from: MrH on August 21, 2018, 03:22:18 PM
The amount of incompetency with car dealerships is incredible. I don't even know what to say anymore. Let me take you on this journey. I'm at a lost for words at some of this.
So Accords are discounted pretty big right now, trade in value on the 4Runner is massive but will be taking a big depreciation dive next year, it's pretty much a one for one trade and I'd get a vehicle that's 3 years newer, 55k fewer miles, $100/month better on gas, and tons of autonomous driving features that should make my hellish commute less painful every day. I don't totally have my mind made up, but it's intriguing enough to get quotes.
Dealership #1 (Joe Morgan Honda, smaller in size):
- Stop in on my way home from work. They are short sales staff. Meet a nice guy, ask for a test drive. He throws me the keys and I go out for a drive. I come back, get his card. Overall, pretty pleasant. Look at the inventory later. They don't have what I want, but I emailed him asking for a quote. That was a week ago, no response :huh:
Dealership #2 (King's Honda. MASSIVE dealership that has just about every OEM you can imagine all in one place. Biggest dealership in Cincinnati by far):
- Send an email to them asking for a quote and even pick a specific car on their lot. Zero response.
- I go to the dealership in person a few days later. Walk around for 15-20 minutes, no one there to wait on me. No one approaches me. I walk the entire lot but can't find the one color I wanted to see in person. Walk out frustrated.
Does nobody want to sell me a car?! What is going on.
Then I made the mistake of asking for a quote through TrueCar. Here are the responses I get from the 3 participating dealers:
A. King's Honda
- They have 5 different people reach out to me, through text, email, and voicemails. Absolutely insane. They're all asking the same thing worded different ways. I responded to the first one, asking for a quote, and got nothing back. I reach out to another and tell her to call off the cavalry, I can't keep up with the assault on all forms of communication, just give me one name to email. I now get a response from the first lady apologizing for the confusion, asking me if I have any questions. I literally just forward the same email I sent her two days ago. Radio silence again :facepalm:
B. Castrucci Honda
- I put down I would prefer to get contacted via email. I get a long winded voicemail with lots of "uhhh" and they call me Mark the whole time.
C. White Allen Honda
- A reasonable girl responds! At least so I think. We exchange a few emails, she gives me a pretty solid price on the Accord, asks if I want to trade in. I said maybe, provide 4Runner info. She asks for VIN, mileage, and payoff amount. I told mileage and VIN, told her don't worry about payoff, I can calculate my loan situation. I would be up for using the promo 1.9% for 36 months from Honda if she gets a kick back and can get me a better overall price.
She then responds with my monthly payment with no trade in, and asks if I have a trade in? I feel like I'm in Ground Hogs day. I tell her yes, see above, give me a quote on the trade in. She responds asking for the VIN and mileage again. I tell her to read what I just sent her two emails ago.
I'm just in total disbelief. Why are they all so bad at this? Why do all of their websites look like a newspaper ad from 1990? :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: I'm just going to keep the 4Runner until I die. This is too painful.
Sounds like a typical case of massive incompetence.
I've never experienced such lazy or incompetent behavior at the BMW dealership which services the 1er. In fact it's almost annoying the way they will phone me up a week or two later after a service asking me if I am happy with their work and what I would improve etc. But you get the feeling that they listen to their customers and take my feedback seriously, which will only help improve their overall service.
Do dealers in the US do that? Phone you up asking you how satisfied you are with the car, their service and if you will purchase a future model from them bla bla bla?
Quote from: cawimmer430 on August 21, 2018, 04:57:12 PM
Sounds like a typical case of massive incompetence.
I've never experienced such lazy or incompetent behavior at the BMW dealership which services the 1er. In fact it's almost annoying the way they will phone me up a week or two later after a service asking me if I am happy with their work and what I would improve etc. But you get the feeling that they listen to their customers and take my feedback seriously, which will only help improve their overall service.
Do dealers in the US do that? Phone you up asking you how satisfied you are with the car, their service and if you will purchase a future model from them bla bla bla?
I get the feeling that you would be appalled by how dealers in the US operate.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 21, 2018, 04:59:29 PM
I get the feeling that you would be appalled by how dealers in the US operate.
Tell me about it. :lol:
I am lucky that my BMW dealer has won awards for offering the BEST SERVICE in all of Germany; it's the best BMW dealer in the country. Can't complain. Very friendly and competent people.
www.bmw-vogl.de
Already had a good experience at the Mercedes dealer in Munich when I ordered my new car there. The salesman went out of his way to get me all the data I need regarding a discount for a small business owner etc. He also gave me the advice to get my winter "AMG" wheels from Rial (M10) and save a ton of money. Honest and friendly guy.
Quote from: MrH on August 21, 2018, 03:22:18 PM
B. Castrucci Honda
- I put down I would prefer to get contacted via email. I get a long winded voicemail with lots of "uhhh" and they call me Mark the whole time.
I've been mistakenly addressed as Mike many times. :lol:
Car dealers are by and large just awful, no matter what brand, no matter what kind of "buying experience" they offer you. My buddy who bought a Genesis G70 went through a preposterous rigamarole when buying his car. The sales guy was a twit. He specifically asked to have a portion of his trade-in withheld from being applied to the car, and to have that difference remitted to him as a cheque. He had two years left on the loan on his truck.
Genesis didn't pay off his truck and give him the cheque for six weeks. The bank he had the loan through kept debiting his account for three extra payments! Genesis had the trade-in truck up for sale before they paid off the loan!
It finally took my buddy talking to Hyundai Canada and telling them, "Pay off my truck and cut me a cheque, NOW, or I'm coming to repossess my property tomorrow."
The sales guy took forever to give him a number for the trade-in in the first place, repeatedly sending emails asking for the make, model, year, VIN, etc. Even though my buddy have him that information days earlier. Eventually he just replied to the sales guy's emails with "see attached, from X days ago..."
Even delivery was a colossal fuck-up. He specifically instructed the sales guy to drop the car off at the office. He got a call about 15 minutes before they were supposed to show up, and sales guy said "we're on our way to your house!" Buddy was like "I TOLD you to deliver at my OFFICE..."
"Oh. Uh, we'll be 15 minutes late..." :facepalm:
Quote from: 93JC on August 21, 2018, 05:24:46 PM
Car dealers are by and large just awful, no matter what brand, no matter what kind of "buying experience" they offer you. My buddy who bought a Genesis G70 went through a preposterous rigamarole when buying his car. The sales guy was a twit. He specifically asked to have a portion of his trade-in withheld from being applied to the car, and to have that difference remitted to him as a cheque. He had two years left on the loan on his truck.
Genesis didn't pay off his truck and give him the cheque for six weeks. The bank he had the loan through kept debiting his account for three extra payments! Genesis had the trade-in truck up for sale before they paid off the loan!
It finally took my buddy talking to Hyundai Canada and telling them, "Pay off my truck and cut me a cheque, NOW, or I'm coming to repossess my property tomorrow."
The sales guy took forever to give him a number for the trade-in in the first place, repeatedly sending emails asking for the make, model, year, VIN, etc. Even though my buddy have him that information days earlier. Eventually he just replied to the sales guy's emails with "see attached, from X days ago..."
Even delivery was a colossal fuck-up. He specifically instructed the sales guy to drop the car off at the office. He got a call about 15 minutes before they were supposed to show up, and sales guy said "we're on our way to your house!" Buddy was like "I TOLD you to deliver at my OFFICE..."
"Oh. Uh, we'll be 15 minutes late..." :facepalm:
Yeah, when my son traded his 200S on a Challenger, he got dinged for a payment on his traded in car. The dealer didn't pay it off for 3 weeks. Luckily his bank reversed it when they finally got the cheque.
Quote from: MX793 on August 21, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
If you really want to throw a salesperson for a loop, try to keep the discussion to OTD price instead of monthly payment. And/or tell them you're not financing.
Yeah, they can't seem to keep up that I'm telling them to not worry about loan pay off. I'll figure out my loan situation. Just give me sales price and trade in price.
I will say, I've had one good dealership experience ever. There's a Subaru dealership north of me that I bought my BRZ from. My salesman was an autoX guy that knew some of my friends. Zero pressure to buy, really relaxed atmosphere. But they were actually competent too! It was great. Owner was a really nice guy too. I was spoiled on that purchase.
It might be a Honda thing. Buying the Civic (from a big Honda dealer in SC) was easily my worst car buying experience. The guy filled out all our forms by hand and had us dictate and spell everything out. I think he refused to work off my license :facepalm: Carmax by comparison had us in and out in an hour
They may do so much volume the customer service doesn't even matter. And all the repeat buyers are just used to the incompetence.
When shopping, I've had mixed experiences. I had some places where I hovered around a car I was interested in and was completely ignored by sales staff. Others where the sales staff were utterly clueless. Several where they demanded a down payment for a test drive (when the Hyundai GenCoupe came out, dealers here thought they were worth their weight in gold).
My actual purchasing experiences were generally pretty good. Staff knew what they were doing when filling out the paperwork. Both Mustangs were factory orders because the dealers didn't have and couldn't locate a car spec'ed how I wanted. They were also bought on X plan, so the price was the price. My Mazda was bought off the lot and I recall that being pretty painless. The VW had a minor hang up with the title and registration, but they gave me a dealer plate and said they'd call me when they got the registration/title straightened out and had my actual plates (took about a week).
Ide Honda here in Rochester has very favorable reviews. Buy from them, and I'll deliver the car to Ohio in about two weeks when I head to Norwalk again.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ide+honda+penfield&rlz=1CAHPZS_enUS706US707&oq=ide+honda+penfield&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l2.6207j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
There are for sure some damn clueless salesmen but the job is high turnover and cutthroat as hell.
Dealerships are almost universally terrible. Best experiences I've had involved buying remotely (used a buyers service for c6 and bought the m3 from a CA dealer I found on a forum). Best bet imo is find a make/model specific forum and see if there are any participating dealers.
4Runner actually went really smoothly and salesman was great, right up until finishing up when they forced me to sit down with the idiot who tries to sell you all the bullshit add ons, refused to stop his spiel no matter how many times I said "I am not interested in anything you have to sell me other than the car". Next time I will insist before coming to pick it up to avoid that and will get up and leave if they insist.
Why are you getting rid of the 4Runner so soon?
Kia dealer was pretty good. They had a huge touchscreen to do all the paperwork on. Went really quickly.
Quote from: Lebowski on August 22, 2018, 06:16:09 AM
Dealerships are almost universally terrible. Best experiences I’ve had involved buying remotely (used a buyers service for c6 and bought the m3 from a CA dealer I found on a forum). Best bet imo is find a make/model specific forum and see if there are any participating dealers.
4Runner actually went really smoothly and salesman was great, right up until finishing up when they forced me to sit down with the idiot who tries to sell you all the bullshit add ons, refused to stop his spiel no matter how many times I said “I am not interested in anything you have to sell me other than the car”. Next time I will insist before coming to pick it up to avoid that and will get up and leave if they insist.
Why are you getting rid of the 4Runner so soon?
Gaaa I hated that part when I bought the Focus. Sat in an office with a young chick and she kept trying to sell me the add-ons. "Do you want the Ford Plus super duper warranty?" "No." "May I ask why?" "I don't plan on keeping the car that long." "But yadda yadda resale transferrable yadda." "I don't want it." "Okay, would you like the comprehensive bullshit something something?" "NO." "May I ask why not?" "NO." "I need to know why not." "Are we done here, because I'm really getting annoyed. I don't want this extra stuff, and don't ask me why not." Honestly, I was getting fucking pissed and I let her know it.
I would honestly be OK if they just put "$1000 margin" in as a line item to skip all the damn rigamarole
Quote from: Rockraven on August 22, 2018, 06:48:40 AM
I hated that part when I bought the Focus. Sat in an office with a young chick and she kept trying to sell me the add-ons. "Do you want the Ford Plus super duper warranty?" "No." "May I ask why?" "I don't plan on keeping the car that long." "But yadda yadda resale transferrable yadda." "I don't want it." "Okay, would you like the comprehensive bullshit something something?" "NO." "May I ask why not?" "NO." "I need to know why not." "Are we done here, because I'm really getting annoyed. I don't want this extra stuff, and don't ask me why not." Honestly, I was getting fucking pissed and I let her know it.
"May I ask why?"
"Sure. Because it's a ripoff." :hammerhead:
Would you like a "paint protection package" for $749?!?!? We'll have some fucktards throw paint sealant on it and tell you that "you don't need to wax it ever again!" While true, no car ever needs to be waxed........
I suck at negotiating price and try never to do that at the dealership but instead at home on the phone and then get an email confirmation with summary price including all fees (like vin etching all windows) and taxes.
I wish the Saturn/Scion way of nonnegotiable pricing took off. I think Tesla does it.
Quote from: veeman on August 22, 2018, 09:35:02 AM
I suck at negotiating price and try never to do that at the dealership but instead at home on the phone and then get an email confirmation with summary price including all fees (like vin etching all windows) and taxes.
I wish the Saturn/Scion way of nonnegotiable pricing took off. I think Tesla does it.
Yeah I never negotiate price at the dealership, always from home over email or phone. Some dealership groups have a no haggle policy, the local Honda dealer where we looked at the CRV is one such dealer, I prefer that - the his is msrp and this is our price.
Quote from: Lebowski on August 22, 2018, 07:43:49 AM
"May I ask why?"
"Sure. Because it's a ripoff." :hammerhead:
Quote from: Lebowski on August 22, 2018, 09:43:01 AM
Yeah I never negotiate price at the dealership, always from home over email or phone. Some dealership groups have a no haggle policy, the local Honda dealer where we looked at the CRV is one such dealer, I prefer that - the his is msrp and this is our price.
I hate how they seemed to purposely use the young cute "finance" girl to try to sell me the extras. They made me feel bad for raising my voice to her. They also make a point of doing this in person, as final purchasing details. I think they know it's easy to say no and fuck off over emails.
Quote from: Rockraven on August 22, 2018, 10:23:49 AM
I hate how they seemed to purposely use the young cute "finance" girl to try to sell me the extras. They made me feel bad for raising my voice to her. They also make a point of doing this in person, as final purchasing details. I think they know it's easy to say no and fuck off over emails.
I have no problem saying fuck off, but this guy would just keep on rambling and would not finish the process. IIRC I was leaving town shortly after otherwise I probably would have walked out.
Quote from: veeman on August 22, 2018, 09:35:02 AM
I suck at negotiating price and try never to do that at the dealership but instead at home on the phone and then get an email confirmation with summary price including all fees (like vin etching all windows) and taxes.
I wish the Saturn/Scion way of nonnegotiable pricing took off. I think Tesla does it.
I'm surprised. I have negotiated in the past by feigning disinterest and standing up to leave, but my wife takes it to a whole new level. She seems to see bargaining as a necessary function of each purchase from sarees to cars.
Two particular situations stand out. One, when we traded our '86 Tempo in for a '93 Aerostar. The salesman was a young 2nd generation South Asian guy who seemed quite acquainted with the art of bargaining and after haggling for a long time, several times getting up to leave, and down to the last few dollars, now with his 'manager' involved, finally they gave in to what seemed to me, a very good price. When the Aerostar was prepped, I went back to drop off the Tempo and pick up the Aerostar realizing that there wasn't much left in the gas tank. A week or so later, I had to drop back in to the dealership for some reason and the young salesman came up to me with a smarmy grin on his face and said, "I went to move your old car and it ran out of gas, did your wife siphon the tank?" I couldn't help but laugh.
The other time was recently when we leased our Discovery. A very polite and cultured salesman well into middle age showed us several vehicles, I was initially interested in the F-Pace, but we settled for a new Discovery that was on the lot. The negotiations began. He does a bunch of calculations and comes up with a monthly price which, to me, sounds reasonable. My wife automatically reduces it by a few hundred dollars and he actually looked startled. By the time the haggling was over, the guy was stuttering. It's always entertaining to me how brazen she can be when striking a deal.
Quote from: FoMoJo on August 22, 2018, 10:43:20 AM
I'm surprised. I have negotiated in the past by feigning disinterest and standing up to leave, but my wife takes it to a whole new level. She seems to see bargaining as a necessary function of each purchase from sarees to cars.
Two particular situations stand out. One, when we traded our '86 Tempo in for a '93 Aerostar. The salesman was a young 2nd generation South Asian guy who seemed quite acquainted with the art of bargaining and after haggling for a long time, several times getting up to leave, and down to the last few dollars, now with his 'manager' involved, finally they gave in to what seemed to me, a very good price. When the Aerostar was prepped, I went back to drop off the Tempo and pick up the Aerostar realizing that there wasn't much left in the gas tank. A week or so later, I had to drop back in to the dealership for some reason and the young salesman came up to me with a smarmy grin on his face and said, "I went to move your old car and it ran out of gas, did your wife siphon the tank?" I couldn't help but laugh.
The other time was recently when we leased our Discovery. A very polite and cultured salesman well into middle age showed us several vehicles, I was initially interested in the F-Pace, but we settled for a new Discovery that was on the lot. The negotiations began. He does a bunch of calculations and comes up with a monthly price which, to me, sounds reasonable. My wife automatically reduces it by a few hundred dollars and he actually looked startled. By the time the haggling was over, the guy was stuttering. It's always entertaining to me how brazen she can be when striking a deal.
I do not bring my wife to negotiate
anything. I even avoid doing our taxes together. She'll strike up a conversation about the most inane and off-topic bullshit while I'm gritting my teeth and fidgeting to get it done and get the fuck out.
I have literally never had these issues at any dealer. Buying my Sonic was pretty painless, save for the one lady who wanted me to shoot free throws.
Maybe because I've worked at dealers, I generally know what I'm getting into??
Quote from: 2o6 on August 22, 2018, 11:02:39 AM
save for the one lady who wanted me to shoot free throws.
:wtf:
The retail experience most everywhere is miserable.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 22, 2018, 11:48:41 AM
The retail experience most everywhere is miserable.
So true. At least with more local, Mom & Pop type places, they're not constantly badgering you to become a "member" or use their credit card and all that bullshit. But even those places are starting to do that shit. Like when my (now-ex) gf wanted to buy a basic hardtail Giant from the LBS for like $550, they were pestering her about opening a line of credit to pay for it. And we're just like........cash. Do you not want cash? We have cash. It's called money. Who the fuck is buying a $550 bike via a credit line.
Grrr yeah even Walmart...
"Will that be on your Walmart Mastercard?"
"No, my bank Mastercard."
"Are you interested in..."
"NO."
:banghead:
Man... maybe I just don't get grief because I look scary :lol:
Or they assume I have bad credit :cry:
No, they follow you around the store because they think you're going to steal something.
Quote from: Rockraven on August 22, 2018, 12:29:39 PM
Grrr yeah even Walmart...
"Will that be on your Walmart Mastercard?"
"No, my bank Mastercard."
"Are you interested in..."
"NO."
:banghead:
Minimum wage cashiers doing what they're told. I just say "No thanks, not today".
Quote from: FoMoJo on August 22, 2018, 12:52:42 PM
Minimum wage cashiers doing what they're told. I just say "No thanks, not today".
Oh I know. I maintain my pleasant and charismatic self. Everyone is pushing the upsell these days.
Speaking of sales staff turnover, I once saw a dumpster with the top layer of trash completely covered up by ex salesman plastic name tags. Must have been at least 500 of them. :lol:
Quote from: FoMoJo on August 22, 2018, 12:52:42 PM
Minimum wage cashiers doing what they're told. I just say "No thanks, not today".
My first job was workin' the cash register in the home goods section of a department store. I got "reprimanded" on more than one occasion for not hitting my "goal" for credit card signups. I was like yeah...that's 'cause I never ask because it's fucking annoying...
Never got in real trouble for it, as I was a golden employee otherwise, but that's certainly a thing nowadays. Retail blows. I'm a "member" at Gander Outdoors because I get sale-like prices on lots of things all the time (like ammo). I also have their card as it saved me $60 when I signed up for it when I bought my pistol. No intention of ever using the card. But even though I'm a member and go through that rigamarole with them to get the good pricing, they're still like "welllllll you could get 5% cash back if you use your Gander card, too....you could get 5% cash back....do you wanna get that 5% cash back?" NO, jesus christ.
It usually helps if you just look them right in the eye and pleasantly say "no thanks!" Relieves them of their upsell duties. You can usually tell that they despise having to ask in the first place.
Quote from: shp4man on August 22, 2018, 01:03:18 PM
Speaking of sales staff turnover, I once saw a dumpster with the top layer of trash completely covered up by ex salesman plastic name tags. Must have been at least 500 of them. :lol:
Perhaps they kept the old/extras around for new people over the years or if someone lost theirs. Oh, Jimmy lost his fucking name tag again? *digs through box*
I hate that the bank I use (TD bank) keeps doing this for the past year or so. Anytime I stop in and am at the teller "I notice you don't have a TR bank credit card. Why not? You could be saving so much money!" And on and on about why this is such a great credit card and that I must get it.
Really?! Didn't banks get the message from the Wells Fargo debacle? I feel that banks should have a classier way of trying to make money than hound their own customers with verbal credit card pitches.
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 22, 2018, 01:06:45 PM
My first job was workin' the cash register in the home goods section of a department store. I got "reprimanded" on more than one occasion for not hitting my "goal" for credit card signups. I was like yeah...that's 'cause I never ask because it's fucking annoying...
Oh man, flashback. This was the same for me when I worked at Kohls long ago between semesters. Pushing credit was more important to the sales staff than selling clothing haha. If you weren't keeping up with pace, the floor manager gave you a hard time and would passive-aggressively cut your hours. So the best way to keep him/her off your back was to push applications.
You got a successful signup, your name was announced over the intercom (no kidding.) You got the most applications for the day, you usually got a perk or at least your name on a board or something. There would be store-to-store competitions for credit card signups.
One summer I got the title "The Credit King" because I was killing it. My secret was haggling with the customer so they get a higher percentage off their checkout than the Kohl's promotion. If Kohl's was running 10% off and they weren't biting, I'd offer them 30%. Then just run it as an adjustment w/o anybody's approval. The managers didn't know and probably wouldn't have cared. Those cards had like 27% APY interest, so a 30% off discount was like giving customers their first hit free. Serious business when I think about it now! I'm probably going to hell for my tactics.
Quote from: Speed_Racer on August 22, 2018, 04:43:02 PM
Oh man, flashback. This was the same for me when I worked at Kohls long ago between semesters. Pushing credit was more important to the sales staff than selling clothing haha. If you weren't keeping up with pace, the floor manager gave you a hard time and would passive-aggressively cut your hours. So the best way to keep him/her off your back was to push applications.
You got a successful signup, your name was announced over the intercom (no kidding.) You got the most applications for the day, you usually got a perk or at least your name on a board or something. There would be store-to-store competitions for credit card signups.
One summer I got the title "The Credit King" because I was killing it. My secret was haggling with the customer so they get a higher percentage off their checkout than the Kohl's promotion. If Kohl's was running 10% off and they weren't biting, I'd offer them 30%. Then just run it as an adjustment w/o anybody's approval. The managers didn't know and probably wouldn't have cared. Those cards had like 27% APY interest, so a 30% off discount was like giving customers their first hit free. Serious business when I think about it now! I'm probably going to hell for my tactics.
I used to work at the Gap during college and it was a similar situation. You got someone to drop $300? Meh. Someone just bought a $15 shirt but also opened a Gap card? Holy shit you're the best salesman ever! It was so incredibly annoying but market research has been done and people with cards buy more stuff.
Not sure how it is now, but the POS gave a lot of leniency for us too and it was easy to give simple 10/20% discounts if people asked or if you liked them.
Quote from: Xer0 on August 23, 2018, 09:16:47 AM
It was so incredibly annoying but market research has been done and people with cards buy more stuff.
I prefer simple "membership" cards, like Gander, ShopKo, and a couple local grocery stores have. No fees, no credit card, you just sign up and get a membership card. They then apply member discounts whenever you shop there. I don't want another fucking credit card, so if I'm gonna save money in your store without all the hassle via a membership card, I'm simply going to shop there more, plain and simple.
I hate all membership cards and retail store specific credit cards. I just like walking into the store, and not worrying about whether I'm missing any great deal to be had because I don't have a specific coupon or membership card or whatever.
That's one of the big reasons I like going to Home Depot, Walmart, and Trader Joe's. There's little bullshit although Home Depot does have super annoying solicitors trying to sell you a kitchen makeover or whatever.
If you have the membership card, you don't have to worry about missing deals. They just scan your card or punch in your phone number at the checkout and if deals apply, they're applied. But I agree, fuck credit cards. Mostly just because I don't want a bunch of credit cards.
"Are you a member?"
"Yep. Here's my card."
*scans*
"Great, you saved an extra $12."
"Cool."
I like my grocery store's method: a loyalty program with an app that supports digital coupons. I can add coupons to my account even while I'm in the store and they automatically deduct when I checkout. No clipping sales or taking up time at the checkout. Makes it painless to save a little extra $.
With our CR-V purchase, we knew exactly what we wanted (a loaded AWD in white) and put it out via USAA's car buying service. We were contacted by three dealers and one of them found one that was on its way to them on a truck. They called us when it came in, we scheduled an appointment, and the sales event was seamless. (They wanted to try to better USAA's financing deal but for 25 basis points is wasn't worth the complication - we weren't financing that much anyway.) They did not try & sell us any worthless crap. Overall it was a positive experience.
I think the whole model of car buying is a ridiculous anachronism. Better to build them to order, per Tesla, per Christian's new A-Class.
Dearth of a Salesman: Auto Dealers Struggle to Recruit, Retain Younger Workers
Turnover is rising in showrooms as more millennials enter the workforce uninterested in selling cars
Car dealerships are facing a roadblock: convincing workers in their 20s and 30s to work and stay in an auto retail business defined by long shifts, weekends on the selling floor, haggling and commission-based pay.
Nearly 60% of dealership hires are millennial workers, and more than half of those new hires turn over annually, according to a study by Hireology, a talent and management firm.
More (paywalled) :(
https://www.wsj.com/articles/auto-dealers-struggle-to-recruit-retain-younger-workers-1535016600 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/auto-dealers-struggle-to-recruit-retain-younger-workers-1535016600)
Quote from: Lebowski on August 22, 2018, 06:16:09 AM
Why are you getting rid of the 4Runner so soon?
Haven't decided for sure or not. I was hanging out with a friend the other night and he said how low his running costs are on his mazda6.
On a whim, I just looked up the 4Runner and projected depreciation coming up. I haven't lost a lot on it yet, but I'm facing quite a bit next year. New Accords are selling for thousands off MSRP. I ran the numbers to see:
- Almost a straight trade one for one.
- I get a car 3 years and 55k miles newer
- auto loan gets stretched 6 months longer, but I save a corresponding amount of money in monthly payment.
- save a minimal amount on interest (2.5% vs 1.9% I think?)
- $100/month savings in gas
- the most important thing: new accord has a ton of autonomous driving features. Trying to make my commute a little less miserable.
Not totally sold on it yet. Depends if they offer enough on trade in on the 4Runner. The new accord is incredible though. It's ten times the car my old Genesis was.
-I'm surprised millenials last as long as salesmen as they do- seems like sucky hours sucky pay sucky job.
-When I go home the Smith's supermarket (now owned by Kroger LOL) has okay prices with a card but like double if you don't. So I give them my mom's phone number. :lol:
The best rewards card I've found is Autozone. Everytime you spend $20+ you get a point. 5 points= $20 off next order.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on August 23, 2018, 07:35:29 PM
The best rewards card I've found is Autozone. Everytime you spend $20+ you get a point. 5 points= $20 off next order.
Dude I've gotten thousands of dollars of Autozone rewards.
I use the hell out of my Canadian Tire Mastercard. Every 2 months or so I've earned enough CT cash to buy a powertool or something for the house.
Quote from: MrH on August 23, 2018, 06:51:34 PM
Haven't decided for sure or not. I was hanging out with a friend the other night and he said how low his running costs are on his mazda6.
On a whim, I just looked up the 4Runner and projected depreciation coming up. I haven't lost a lot on it yet, but I'm facing quite a bit next year. New Accords are selling for thousands off MSRP. I ran the numbers to see:
- Almost a straight trade one for one.
- I get a car 3 years and 55k miles newer
- auto loan gets stretched 6 months longer, but I save a corresponding amount of money in monthly payment.
- save a minimal amount on interest (2.5% vs 1.9% I think?)
- $100/month savings in gas
- the most important thing: new accord has a ton of autonomous driving features. Trying to make my commute a little less miserable.
Not totally sold on it yet. Depends if they offer enough on trade in on the 4Runner. The new accord is incredible though. It's ten times the car my old Genesis was.
Wouldn't you be better off selling the 4Runner privately? A dealer wouldn't want to give you what it's worth.
Quote from: FoMoJo on August 24, 2018, 07:00:34 AM
Wouldn't you be better off selling the 4Runner privately? A dealer wouldn't want to give you what it's worth.
This used to be the way to go, but trying to sell privately can be a massive headache, take a long time to get anywhere near the price you're asking, and you lose any negotiating leverage a trade-in offers.
Quote from: FoMoJo on August 24, 2018, 07:00:34 AM
Wouldn't you be better off selling the 4Runner privately? A dealer wouldn't want to give you what it's worth.
They can immediately put this on their toyota lot as certified pre-owned.
I could get $1k-$2k more privately. Almost totally negated by the tax savings from trading it in ($1800 on a $28k) car. Then you have to deal with the idiots on craigslist and autotrader. Hard pass.
Sellers have to pay sales tax on cars in Ohio?
No, new car buyers do. If you trade in, you only pay sales tax on the difference.
Quote from: MrH on August 23, 2018, 06:51:34 PM
Haven't decided for sure or not. I was hanging out with a friend the other night and he said how low his running costs are on his mazda6.
On a whim, I just looked up the 4Runner and projected depreciation coming up. I haven't lost a lot on it yet, but I'm facing quite a bit next year. New Accords are selling for thousands off MSRP. I ran the numbers to see:
- Almost a straight trade one for one.
- I get a car 3 years and 55k miles newer
- auto loan gets stretched 6 months longer, but I save a corresponding amount of money in monthly payment.
- save a minimal amount on interest (2.5% vs 1.9% I think?)
- $100/month savings in gas
- the most important thing: new accord has a ton of autonomous driving features. Trying to make my commute a little less miserable.
Not totally sold on it yet. Depends if they offer enough on trade in on the 4Runner. The new accord is incredible though. It's ten times the car my old Genesis was.
Also I think you're just bored with your car and want to change it up :lol:
I keep thinking of changing my Crosstrek for a shift yourself Accord because it'll be quieter and will be geared properly for highway travel. I think the Accord looks fantastic and I don't see many of them on the road. The Crosstrek is really great in the winter though and it's compact size is perfect for New York City driving.
More 206's field of expertise... and I'm sure it gets easier with experience but, for the average guy, selling privately is okay only if you're prepared to put in a *lot* of work. It took a week of farting around to prep my daughter's neglected Prius for sale: fluids, filters, detailing, paint touchups, photographing, fielding the bullshit calls and texts, driving hither & thither to meet buyers, closing the deal. If you've got the time & the inclination, fine, but most people will want to give the keys to the dealers and forgo the premium they'd have got on the private sale.
Quote from: MrH on August 24, 2018, 07:26:01 AM
No, new car buyers do. If you trade in, you only pay sales tax on the difference.
I tried to explain this a few times to people who say private selling is better. If your new car costs $30,000 and your trade in is worth $20,000 to the dealer, paying sales tax on $10,000 rather than $30,000 is a huge difference, especially up here with the GST.
Quote from: veeman on August 24, 2018, 07:32:43 AM
Also I think you're just bored with your car and want to change it up :lol:
I keep thinking of changing my Crosstrek for a shift yourself Accord because it'll be quieter and will be geared properly for highway travel. I think the Accord looks fantastic and I don't see many of them on the road. The Crosstrek is really great in the winter though and it's compact size is perfect for New York City driving.
That too :lol:
I considered the manual, but I do so much stop & go high way driving, you lose some of the autonomous features with the manual over the automatic. The 10-speed isn't great, but it's not bad in terms of autos. I didn't even bother to drive the 1.5t with the CVT.
The 2.0t is seriously quick. It'll feel like a rocket ship compared to a crosstrek :lol:
Quote from: Rockraven on August 24, 2018, 07:48:14 AM
I tried to explain this a few times to people who say private selling is better. If your new car costs $30,000 and your trade in is worth $20,000 to the dealer, paying sales tax on $10,000 rather than $30,000 is a huge difference, especially up here with the GST.
PSA: in the States at least, if your car gets totaled and insurance pays you out, they are also obligated to pay you the corresponding sales tax as well. It varies State by State so check on your laws, but when my Civic got totaled about 5 years ago, it was appraised at 11.5K and insurance gave me another $900 to cover the sales tax up to that original 11.5K.
Quote from: Xer0 on August 24, 2018, 09:37:47 AM
PSA: in the States at least, if your car gets totaled and insurance pays you out, they are also obligated to pay you the corresponding sales tax as well. It varies State by State so check on your laws, but when my Civic got totaled about 5 years ago, it was appraised at 11.5K and insurance gave me another $900 to cover the sales tax up to that original 11.5K.
Yeah in Ontario, GAP insurance covers the tax on the full MSRP, regardless of how much tax you actually paid, plus covers depreciation, so you're not fucked if you total your car on the drive home from the dealership. Not sure of the fine details, but that's the gist of it.
GAP insurance covers the difference in what you owe vs what it's worth. At least here in the US, it's a total waste as long as you aren't living pay check to pay check.
Quote from: Speed_Racer on August 22, 2018, 04:43:02 PM
Oh man, flashback. This was the same for me when I worked at Kohls long ago between semesters. Pushing credit was more important to the sales staff than selling clothing haha. If you weren't keeping up with pace, the floor manager gave you a hard time and would passive-aggressively cut your hours. So the best way to keep him/her off your back was to push applications.
You got a successful signup, your name was announced over the intercom (no kidding.) You got the most applications for the day, you usually got a perk or at least your name on a board or something. There would be store-to-store competitions for credit card signups.
One summer I got the title "The Credit King" because I was killing it. My secret was haggling with the customer so they get a higher percentage off their checkout than the Kohl's promotion. If Kohl's was running 10% off and they weren't biting, I'd offer them 30%. Then just run it as an adjustment w/o anybody's approval. The managers didn't know and probably wouldn't have cared. Those cards had like 27% APY interest, so a 30% off discount was like giving customers their first hit free. Serious business when I think about it now! I'm probably going to hell for my tactics.
I worked at KOHL's for many years in a supervisory or management role. I could tell you a lot of stories about it, but KC was one of the biggest things that the company wanted all staff to sell. It really was not that hard to get people to sign up. I coached my staff to make it worth it for the customer. If you have a line backed up 8 deep, you don't emphasize credit because the name of the game is repeat service. Signing someone up for credit stops the line from moving, so you are making the people behind them less likely to buy credit. The best times are to get the shoppers when the line is low or when you ring someone up after finding them a product. You have already established a relationship by assisting them and then you have the opportunity to sell credit to to discount them further.
Worked most of the time and that's why my teams had good scores for credit even though they were not POS associates.
In general, retail is actually not a terrible business. You can win in retail, but I find that it is impossible to do so without a obsessed focus on customer experience. Our numbers were always high because it was about helping customers make good decisions or helping them make their own decisions by using some easy sales tricks. That and get the stock out of the stockroom. Stock does not sell if it the customers cannot find it our see it.
What's hard is that its not a very rewarding work experience which why I ultimately left to pursue a different career. The pay is good, but not good enough for me to continue it indefinitely.
Quote from: MrH on August 24, 2018, 09:58:00 AM
GAP insurance covers the difference in what you owe vs what it's worth. At least here in the US, it's a total waste as long as you aren't living pay check to pay check.
At the basic level, yeah. Useful if you financed the whole cost of the car.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 22, 2018, 11:48:41 AM
The retail experience most everywhere is miserable.
Did you make it,to the Audi dealer after our breakfast? Or did you decide to wait until a day when you felt better?
MrH it might be worth hiring a car buying service. It's sad that such a service even exists and makes sense to use.
Quote from: WookieOnRitalin on August 24, 2018, 10:01:31 AM
I worked at KOHL's for many years in a supervisory or management role.
I will say that my managers/bosses at the department store I was working (Younkers, a soon-to-be/now-defunct subsidiary of Bon-Ton) were fuckin' awesome. Was a great job to have as a 16-18 year old. Was kind of annoying wearing a shirt and tie every day, but it wasn't all bad. :lol:
Quote from: MrH on August 21, 2018, 03:22:18 PM
The amount of incompetency with car dealerships is incredible. I don't even know what to say anymore. Let me take you on this journey. I'm at a lost for words at some of this.
So Accords are discounted pretty big right now, trade in value on the 4Runner is massive but will be taking a big depreciation dive next year, it's pretty much a one for one trade and I'd get a vehicle that's 3 years newer, 55k fewer miles, $100/month better on gas, and tons of autonomous driving features that should make my hellish commute less painful every day. I don't totally have my mind made up, but it's intriguing enough to get quotes.
Dealership #1 (Joe Morgan Honda, smaller in size):
- Stop in on my way home from work. They are short sales staff. Meet a nice guy, ask for a test drive. He throws me the keys and I go out for a drive. I come back, get his card. Overall, pretty pleasant. Look at the inventory later. They don't have what I want, but I emailed him asking for a quote. That was a week ago, no response :huh:
Dealership #2 (King's Honda. MASSIVE dealership that has just about every OEM you can imagine all in one place. Biggest dealership in Cincinnati by far):
- Send an email to them asking for a quote and even pick a specific car on their lot. Zero response.
- I go to the dealership in person a few days later. Walk around for 15-20 minutes, no one there to wait on me. No one approaches me. I walk the entire lot but can't find the one color I wanted to see in person. Walk out frustrated.
Does nobody want to sell me a car?! What is going on.
Then I made the mistake of asking for a quote through TrueCar. Here are the responses I get from the 3 participating dealers:
A. King's Honda
- They have 5 different people reach out to me, through text, email, and voicemails. Absolutely insane. They're all asking the same thing worded different ways. I responded to the first one, asking for a quote, and got nothing back. I reach out to another and tell her to call off the cavalry, I can't keep up with the assault on all forms of communication, just give me one name to email. I now get a response from the first lady apologizing for the confusion, asking me if I have any questions. I literally just forward the same email I sent her two days ago. Radio silence again :facepalm:
B. Castrucci Honda
- I put down I would prefer to get contacted via email. I get a long winded voicemail with lots of "uhhh" and they call me Mark the whole time.
C. White Allen Honda
- A reasonable girl responds! At least so I think. We exchange a few emails, she gives me a pretty solid price on the Accord, asks if I want to trade in. I said maybe, provide 4Runner info. She asks for VIN, mileage, and payoff amount. I told mileage and VIN, told her don't worry about payoff, I can calculate my loan situation. I would be up for using the promo 1.9% for 36 months from Honda if she gets a kick back and can get me a better overall price.
She then responds with my monthly payment with no trade in, and asks if I have a trade in? I feel like I'm in Ground Hogs day. I tell her yes, see above, give me a quote on the trade in. She responds asking for the VIN and mileage again. I tell her to read what I just sent her two emails ago.
I'm just in total disbelief. Why are they all so bad at this? Why do all of their websites look like a newspaper ad from 1990? :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: I'm just going to keep the 4Runner until I die. This is too painful.
I think a modified old-fashioned approach is better with a dealer.
Do your research before you go, and decide what you would consider a good price and a good trade-in value. Then go in and tell the first person you interact with exactly what you want to do in very definite terms. That will tell them that you are serious about buying, not just fishing for prices.
Immediately seize control of the discussion when you sit down with the salesperson. Don't let them divert you into talk about payments, etc. Tell them you want to know their best price and trade-in value, and if you get the price you want, you will buy that day. If you are going for financing, tell them you want to know their interest rate and terms. Do research before so you know if the terms are good, and if they are, then you accept that on the spot too.
Then, make sure you check all the payment calculations. Bring a financial calculator so you can make sure they don't pad the payments. But make sure the controlling elements -- price, trade-in and interest rate/terms - have been locked down before you talk payments. That will tell them they're dealing with somebody who is financially savvy.
These people are all pretty much the same. They want the sale - now. If you offer them that as long as they meet your stipulations, they are more likely to be responsive and give you what you want.
Went today and got some sales guy assigned to me. I drove him nuts I could tell.
Him: we put mud flaps on every car, that's $200.
Me: yeah, I don't care. You can take them off, I won't pay for them.
He came back with a crappy trade in number. He asked what it would take to get a deal done. I told him $2000 more. He made it happen but got pissed when I said I wasn't doing the paperwork tonight and would be back next week.
When he came back with the offer: and keep in mind, that's $200 in accessories too I'm giving you for free. I've never done that before.
Me: yeah, I don't care. I didn't ask for them.
:lol:
Ultimately, he quoted a delta of <$1600 between 4Runner and new accord. Think I'm going to do it. Just need to pick the color. Leaning towards black on black
Have you ever had a black car? This Kia will be my last. Total PITA to keep looking good, very hot in the summer too. Accord has some interesting colors, live a little.
Quote from: MrH on August 24, 2018, 06:23:26 PM
Went today and got some sales guy assigned to me. I drove him nuts I could tell.
Him: we put mud flaps on every car, that's $200.
Me: yeah, I don't care. You can take them off, I won't pay for them.
He came back with a crappy trade in number. He asked what it would take to get a deal done. I told him $2000 more. He made it happen but got pissed when I said I wasn't doing the paperwork tonight and would be back next week.
When he came back with the offer: and keep in mind, that's $200 in accessories too I'm giving you for free. I've never done that before.
Me: yeah, I don't care. I didn't ask for them.
:lol:
Ultimately, he quoted a delta of <$1600 between 4Runner and new accord. Think I'm going to do it. Just need to pick the color. Leaning towards black on black
It sounds as if you're finally getting somewhere.
Don't get ablack car.
Only do black if you either a) don't give a shit, or b) plan to be slightly obsessive about it.
Five years of black was enough for me.
Wife has only had black cars and will only buy black cars. You guys are right though.
So my other options:
-Silver
-Gray
-White
Red is a no go. I hate Red on cars and it also only comes with an ivory interior, which I also hate. Pretty set on a black interior at this point.
Black. Or silver. Gray in third.
White is nearly as annoying as black, deoending on the climate.
Silver or gray. It's an accord, it's not worth the upkeep of a black car, an accord should be a low maintenance car. I agree white is probably the next hardest color to keep clean after black, certain stains (black road grime, yellowish sap) are a bitch to get off white paint.
What kind of Accord are you getting? The sport manual 2.0 should be a sweet drive. I am jealous that we don't get it.
Quote from: Morris Minor on August 23, 2018, 04:36:17 PM
I think the whole model of car buying is a ridiculous anachronism. Better to build them to order, per Tesla, per Christian's new A-Class.
That's what I like about the situation here; I can put together my dream car with the features I want. :praise:
What's the situation like regarding American cars in America - do they come fully-loaded or, like here, can you put together your dream car with the features you want? You'd think that this would be an advantage for domestic brands who produce and sell locally as compared to the Asian and European competition, which import most of their inventory and are almost forced to fully equip them.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on August 24, 2018, 09:26:47 PM
That's what I like about the situation here; I can put together my dream car with the features I want. :praise:
What's the situation like regarding American cars in America - do they come fully-loaded or, like here, can you put together your dream car with the features you want? You'd think that this would be an advantage for domestic brands who produce and sell locally as compared to the Asian and European competition, which import most of their inventory and are almost forced to fully equip them.
The mainstream American makes (Ford, Chevy, Dodge) are a bit more like the Japanese in that their option sheets are structured around trims/packages with relatively few standalone options. You generally end up getting some stuff you don't want packaged with a "must have" feature.
Pickup trucks still have a pretty sizeable number of individual options, but that's partly because they are so profitable that automakers can afford the cost hit of offering high levels of factory customization.
Pickups can go from roll up windows and vinyl floor mats to every ridiculous option known to mankind. An ass massager? Really? Or about $27K to $65K.
I would have to order one if it came to it.
Mike
(https://2-photos.motorcar.com/used-2018-honda-accord_sedan-touringcvt-8456-17047451-4-640.jpg)
Quote from: shp4man on August 25, 2018, 07:53:42 AM
Pickups can go from roll up windows and vinyl floor mats to every ridiculous option known to mankind. An ass massager? Really? Or about $27K to $65K.
I would have to order one if it came to it.
Pickups can get into 6 figures.
I considered the manual, but for sitting in traffic daily, I think the automatic makes more sense. 10-speed auto and 2.0t for me. Didn't even consider the 1.5 liter + CVT. That's a bridge too far for me :lol: I still have the S2000 for fun manual driving.
I'm leaning towards silver. I've had two gray cars for awhile, kind of sick of it. My protege5 was silver and I liked it ok. It's down to these two colors though.
There are two blues for Accords. For the Sport model only, there's a brighter blue, but I've decided against the sport trim. The seats are a weird combo of materials, the trim is this awful fake aluminum, and the stereo is unacceptable. The wheels are awful too. The blue is kind of purple to me too.
Think I'm going to go with the EX-L 2.0t w/o navi. Real leather, much better wood trim, much better stereo, memory seats, 17" wheels instead of 19", and a few other things. Only blue that's available in that trim is dark blue, but the interior is light gray. It's way too light and would look dirty quick I think.
My boss has an EX-L 2.0T and loves it. 30MPG on the commute I get 20MPG in the Kia in, and while he's not as psycho as I am he's not gentle either.
Quote from: Rockraven on August 25, 2018, 08:11:33 AM
Pickups can get into 6 figures.
I can't imagine why anybody would pay that much for a damn truck, but I guess they're out there. :huh:
Quote from: MrH on August 25, 2018, 08:35:16 AM
I considered the manual, but for sitting in traffic daily, I think the automatic makes more sense. 10-speed auto and 2.0t for me. Didn't even consider the 1.5 liter + CVT. That's a bridge too far for me :lol: I still have the S2000 for fun manual driving.
I'm leaning towards silver. I've had two gray cars for awhile, kind of sick of it. My protege5 was silver and I liked it ok. It's down to these two colors though.
There are two blues for Accords. For the Sport model only, there's a brighter blue, but I've decided against the sport trim. The seats are a weird combo of materials, the trim is this awful fake aluminum, and the stereo is unacceptable. The wheels are awful too. The blue is kind of purple to me too.
Think I'm going to go with the EX-L 2.0t w/o navi. Real leather, much better wood trim, much better stereo, memory seats, 17" wheels instead of 19", and a few other things. Only blue that's available in that trim is dark blue, but the interior is light gray. It's way too light and would look dirty quick I think.
Sitting in traffic in a manual has never bothered me, I've never really got the don't get a manual cause sit in traffic argument. Get the manual.
Quote from: Lebowski on August 25, 2018, 10:13:49 AM
Sitting in traffic in a manual has never bothered me, I've never really got the don't get a manual cause sit in traffic argument. Get the manual.
To be fair you've never had a car that can drive itself either, and your commute is like 15 minutes on surface streets IIRC. Plus he still has the S2000
15 minutes? Walking, maybe.
Yeah, I've never had a very long commute, still the sitting in traffic I have done (not all my driving is committing and the traffic here sucks) in a manual never really bothered me. Maybe if I sat in traffic every morning and evening that would change, who knows.
It's not bad every day. But some days...by Thursday or Friday, you're mentally tired, and then there's an accident and you're just sitting there in stop and go for an hour it gets really draining.
I've had three black cars: a Mazda Protege, an Enclave, and a Beetle. I rarely washed them and never by hand. When they were washed and the wheels shined they really popped. Especially the Enclave with the big chrome wheels (I know Mr H hates chrome) and the Beetle. When they had dust, dirt, pollen, or salt grime on them which was most of the time, it didn't bother me though. Whatever.
The Accord 19" wheels look so good to me. You don't like them? Ride quality suffers I know and they're more likely to flat. Did you test drive an Accord with the 19s?
Yeah, I test drove both. I don't like asymmetrical wheels really. Honda is big on them right now for some reason. All of their wheels look like a turbine now.
For a daily driver, I'll take the 17" over the 19". Much cheaper tires, and I don't really care about the looks one way or the other.
Just buy the first used Versa from CarMax that you see
Quote from: CaminoRacer on August 25, 2018, 12:12:52 PM
Just buy the first used Versa from CarMax that you see
LOL
Red red red!!!! :lol:
CRV!
Quote from: MrH on August 25, 2018, 07:31:55 PM
How dare you call me poor!
What? Only thing driven by more billionaires than the CRV is a Subaru.
Quote from: MX793 on August 24, 2018, 10:10:18 PM
The mainstream American makes (Ford, Chevy, Dodge) are a bit more like the Japanese in that their option sheets are structured around trims/packages with relatively few standalone options. You generally end up getting some stuff you don't want packaged with a "must have" feature.
Pickup trucks still have a pretty sizeable number of individual options, but that's partly because they are so profitable that automakers can afford the cost hit of offering high levels of factory customization.
Got it. :cheers:
Amazing how profitable pickups are in the US. IIRC the Ford F-150 is still the best-selling
car in the US.
Done deal.
Overall, worked out well. The delta between the cars was under $1500. Factor in the better financing I got through Honda vs what I was paying on the 4Runner, and the delta shrinks even more. The 4Runner I owed for less than 3 years on it. Took out a 36 month loan on the Accord for what was left after the equity factored in.
Basically stretched the loan a couple of months and lowered my monthly payment. If you factor in something like 5% discount rate, the actual difference came out to $200 between the two.
Got a 3 year newer car, tons more tech (modern infotainment, leather seats, keyless start, etc), 55k fewer miles, and $100/month better gas mileage. Just driving in traffic back to work was amazing. Turn on active cruise control and lane keep assist, and it'll drive itself down the highway in bumper to bumper traffic on it's own.
Congrats! Good trade.
Quote from: MrH on August 28, 2018, 12:34:22 PM
Done deal.
Overall, worked out well. The delta between the cars was under $1500. Factor in the better financing I got through Honda vs what I was paying on the 4Runner, and the delta shrinks even more. The 4Runner I owed for less than 3 years on it. Took out a 36 month loan on the Accord for what was left after the equity factored in.
Basically stretched the loan a couple of months and lowered my monthly payment. If you factor in something like 5% discount rate, the actual difference came out to $200 between the two.
Got a 3 year newer car, tons more tech (modern infotainment, leather seats, keyless start, etc), 55k fewer miles, and $100/month better gas mileage. Just driving in traffic back to work was amazing. Turn on active cruise control and lane keep assist, and it'll drive itself down the highway in bumper to bumper traffic on it's own.
So what colour is it and what kind of rims?
Smart move, btw.
Yeah, I looked on a whim based on what my friend said. Got $4,000+ off the Accord and a $27k for the 4Runner.
Ended up with the EX-L trim with the 2.0t + 10-speed auto. Modern Steel Metallic (basically gray) with a black interior. Kind of boring but that's alright. The wheels are awful, but they're bad on all trim levels :lol: I'd rather have the 17" wheels than the 19" just from a tire cost and comfort point of view.
Looks like this:
(https://www.tracyhonda.com/wp-content/uploads/vehicle-image-1HGCV1F56JA149792.jpg)
Congrats man!
Nice ride. I don't know what it is w/ Honda and ugly wheels.
Congrats, but damn those wheels and wheel gap are hard to look at :lol:
Slam it
Congratulations!! I don't see that many of this generation Accord around.
congrats. but that shnoz is huge in profile. all the more protection for your future baby.
I honestly don't even hate this
(https://www.accordxclub.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=684&d=1534204324)
Nice! Congrats
It's really boring looking.
But wow is it good dynamically. It's ten times the car the Genesis ever was. It's amazing how far ahead it feels.
Active cruise control + lane keep assist is a game changer for traffic.
Going from a truck DD to a car must be nice too. It drives me nuts how truck throttles have a step function between "go slowly but gargle fuel loudly" and "DOWNSHIFT AND GO LIKE HELL". Hondas feel so light and unencumbered by comparison.
There's power everywhere with this thing too. I didn't get the whimpy 1.5t. I got the torquier version of the type R engine. Chirps the tires in the first 3 gears. Upshifts are lightning quick. Downshifts are kind of disappointing though.
5 speed auto + NA V6 in a 4Runner feels totally different than 10-speed auto + this monster 2.0t in an accord.
And I averaged 32 mpg on today's commute :rockon:
Damn, that's sweet!
Congrats! :cheers:
Congrats!
Congrats! Can't wait to see how well this thing handles the off road trails. :lol:
The mall parking lots breathed a collective sigh of relief when the 4Runner got traded in :lol:
Life with the Accord Update:
- It's uglier than I thought it would be :lol:
- I don't care because it drives sooooo well. I'm impressed every time I drive the thing. Dynamically it's great. It's so much better than most 1-gen previous or even current entry luxury cars. It's worlds better than any TL I've driven.
- Interior is just a beautiful place to be. Great materials all around.
Some things I've done so far:
- Took off the dealer garbage, remove the front license plate bracket
- Replaced the rear turn signals to LEDs
Still to do:
- Need to wash, claybar, polish, and wax
- LEDs for the remaining interior lights
- Might buy the heated steering wheel and install. It's cheaper than I thought it would be.
Kind of disappointed the AC isn't cooler. Apparently all new cars are running some super ECO friendly freon now that doesn't work as well.
I saw a silver one on Saturday and was disappointed by the styling from the rear 3/4 view. :lol:
The previous design (2015-2016?) was soooo good. Wish they kept it for longer.
Get tint. It will help your AC out
Crazy that Honda hasn't figured out how to do the A/C yet. It was weaksauce in my car as well. My boss says his A/C is good though. If I ever buy a Honda again it's gonna be on the hottest day of the year
Get one of these and charge that sucker up. Who knows, might just be a little low on refrigerant.
(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/4ba36271-fcfc-4d34-b03d-affe302ea99f_1.e614dde08cd98ad1b90437b373edd9a3.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF)
Nah, Honda notoriously has ass A/C systems.
Any plans to put some decent looking wheels on it?
Quote from: CaminoRacer on September 05, 2018, 10:01:55 AM
I saw a silver one on Saturday and was disappointed by the styling from the rear 3/4 view. :lol:
The previous design (2015-2016?) was soooo good. Wish they kept it for longer.
Yeah, I thought it'd look better than it does. Front 1/4 view is solid. The rear is total ass. Oh well. At least I got a boring color to blend in with.
Quote from: Rich on September 05, 2018, 10:23:05 AM
Get tint. It will help your AC out
Working on getting that done this week.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 05, 2018, 10:25:37 AM
Crazy that Honda hasn't figured out how to do the A/C yet. It was weaksauce in my car as well. My boss says his A/C is good though. If I ever buy a Honda again it's gonna be on the hottest day of the year
Yeah, I think that's the issue. Lame
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 05, 2018, 10:27:17 AM
Get one of these and charge that sucker up. Who knows, might just be a little low on refrigerant.
(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/4ba36271-fcfc-4d34-b03d-affe302ea99f_1.e614dde08cd98ad1b90437b373edd9a3.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF)
On a car with <1000 miles?? :confused:
Quote from: Rockraven on September 05, 2018, 10:41:04 AM
Any plans to put some decent looking wheels on it?
Not any time soon. The S2000 will likely get wheels and tires soon. If these stock tires are total garbage in the snow, I might put snow tires on the stock wheels and get something next year for the summer. Who knows.
Oh. Yeah, nevermind. For some reason I thought it was used.
What's funny is the S2000 has a great AC. Prob because it's the size of my shoe.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 05, 2018, 10:25:37 AM
Crazy that Honda hasn't figured out how to do the A/C yet. It was weaksauce in my car as well. My boss says his A/C is good though. If I ever buy a Honda again it's gonna be on the hottest day of the year
It's not just Honda. I think most companies are setting up their AC duty cycle to favor fuel economy over BTUs. Mazda's AC was notorious weak in the early 2000s and if customers complained, dealers would reflash the control module to change the AC's duty cycle.
I think the other factor is the refrigerants being used these days. I feel like CFCs like R12 were far better than R134a and the like that are used now. I don't think I've driven a modern (2000 or newer) car that has an AC that blows as cold as my old 240SX did. I swear that car could frost windows on a muggy summer day.
Oh my god, my MX5's AC is the fucking best. It's immediately icy cold.
The Subaru, on the other hand, is terrible at both warming and cooling. It's surprising that a car sold for its all weather capability is equipped with such lame climate control. I don't think it's the ozone-friendly refrigerant that's at fault, given my Mazda's ability to deliver better results under the same constraints.
Quote from: Laconian on September 05, 2018, 05:36:59 PM
Oh my god, my MX5's AC is the fucking best. It's immediately icy cold.
The Subaru, on the other hand, is terrible at both warming and cooling. It's surprising that a car sold for its all weather capability is equipped with such lame climate control. I don't think it's the ozone-friendly refrigerant that's at fault, given my Mazda's ability to deliver better results under the same constraints.
Wouldn't surprise me if the Miata is using the exact same AC system as a larger Mazda3, which when coupled with a tiny cabin results in the ability to really pull the temperature down.
My Mazda3 sucked. My parents' 1st gen Mazda6 sucked. RX-8s sucked. My Mustangs have just been OK. The VW is just OK (probably needs a recharge, it takes is a while to start blowing cold).
That said, I hardly use the AC. Even when it's in the 90s out (car's thermometer was registering 97F when I left work today) I typically roll the windows down. I use it more for defrosting than anything else.
Quote from: Laconian on September 05, 2018, 05:36:59 PM
Oh my god, my MX5's AC is the fucking best. It's immediately icy cold.
The Subaru, on the other hand, is terrible at both warming and cooling. It's surprising that a car sold for its all weather capability is equipped with such lame climate control. I don't think it's the ozone-friendly refrigerant that's at fault, given my Mazda's ability to deliver better results under the same constraints.
Lol that reminds me, the heater in my 92 Legacy was an absolute furnace
The Subaru is an embarassment.
Also, the tepid seat heater makes you feel like you're sitting in a puddle of lukewarm pee.
Mazda gets that right too. Roasty ass.
Of the 30 or so cars I've owned over the last 5 years the only one with bad A/C was the Civic. Optima is great
You've owned 30 cars in 5 years....??? :confused:
Quote from: Laconian on September 05, 2018, 06:08:02 PM
The Subaru is an embarassment.
Also, the tepid seat heater makes you feel like you're sitting in a puddle of lukewarm pee.
Mazda gets that right too. Roasty ass.
It got us back and forth to and from Seattle. :praise:
Quote from: MrH on September 05, 2018, 06:56:51 PM
You've owned 30 cars in 5 years....??? :confused:
hy·per·bo·le
hīˈpərbəlē/Submit
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
Quote from: MrH on September 05, 2018, 06:56:51 PM
You've owned 30 cars in 5 years....??? :confused:
I think I have.
Quote from: Laconian on September 05, 2018, 06:08:02 PM
The Subaru is an embarassment.
Also, the tepid seat heater makes you feel like you're sitting in a puddle of lukewarm pee.
Mazda gets that right too. Roasty ass.
I'm surprised. We've had a 2nd,3rd, and 4th gen Legacy in my family and each one would melt the skin off your hands while you drive with the heat cranked up. Even the inside of my '99 wagon would reach 90* ambient temperature in the winter
Quote from: 68_427 on September 06, 2018, 04:37:19 AM
I'm surprised. We've had a 2nd,3rd, and 4th gen Legacy in my family and each one would melt the skin off your hands while you drive with the heat cranked up. Even the inside of my '99 wagon would reach 90* ambient temperature in the winter
Maybe it's the automatic climate control, but it's really quite bad. It takes seemingly forever for the cabin to heat up after a day of skiing.
I need to see more of this
(https://images.fitmentindustries.com/web/396513-4-2018-accord-honda-d2-racing-coilovers-velgen-vmb6-gunmetal.jpg)
Naw. I'm keeping my stock, plush ride height.
You'll see some lowering and wider tires on the S2000. Not on the daily though.
IDK, the more I see that the more my mind starts racing. We will see what kind of deals they have on hybrids in the spring
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/honda-accord-reliability-durability-long-term-update
Excellent car.
I'm most impressed with how this thing deals with fuel. 2.0T probably gets the same gas mileage as the 1.5T while being orders of magnitude faster. Hybrid is appreciably faster than the 1.5T while getting significantly better gas mileage. 1.5T is not bad but if I couldn't afford the Hybrid or 2.0T I'd just get the turbo Civic. Everyone I know who has bought one of these got the 2.0T.
Sporty. Join the accord crew again. I know you want to.
Yeah, the mix of power, gas mileage, and space is pretty incredible. I think I'm averaging 31 mpg, and that's mostly bumper to bumper highway traffic with speeds from 0-90 mph. The 2.0t and 10-speed is actually a great combo. I'd avoid the 1.5 just so you don't have to deal with the cvt.
sporty you should get a '97 Accord and do a 2.0T + 10 speed swap.
Hahahahahaha
The fucked up part is I think they use K-series mounts. There are kits
But nah. Just gonna slap some Tein coilovers and some 20s on and call it a day. Just need to clean up this year's mess. Hopefully sales continue to tank making deals more tasty but interest rates don't spike.
Congrats on the car.
I'm not having any dealer issues though. I e-mailed 3 different dealers in the last day and got pretty damn good pricing back within a few hours. This is actually sort of fun playing them off each other.
Quote from: r0tor on September 08, 2018, 08:37:12 AM
Congrats on the car.
I'm not having any dealer issues though. I e-mailed 3 different dealers in the last day and got pretty damn good pricing back within a few hours. This is actually sort of fun playing them off each other.
What make/model are you looking at?
Quote from: r0tor on September 08, 2018, 10:33:38 AM
Secret :mask:
:huh:
(https://s22.postimg.cc/4zwedqdpd/2019-_Honda-_CR-_V-_Release-_Date-and-_Price-7.jpg)
Quote from: MrH on September 07, 2018, 06:35:01 PM
Sporty. Join the accord crew again. I know you want to.
Yeah, the mix of power, gas mileage, and space is pretty incredible. I think I'm averaging 31 mpg, and that's mostly bumper to bumper highway traffic with speeds from 0-90 mph. The 2.0t and 10-speed is actually a great combo. I'd avoid the 1.5 just so you don't have to deal with the cvt.
Congrats. I think you have hit Apex Mainstream Sedan, in terms of capability & value. When I bought the CR-V in January the dealer's lot was stuffed with wonderful Civics & Accords. But it's the CUVs that fly out of the door.
Quote from: r0tor on September 08, 2018, 10:33:38 AM
Secret :mask:
CRV! CRV! CRV!
For maximum forum hilarity, I will also accept a Model 3 with a multitude of quality issues. Either one will work :lol:
Quote from: Morris Minor on September 08, 2018, 10:55:28 AM
Congrats. I think you have hit Apex Mainstream Sedan, in terms of capability & value. When I bought the CR-V in January the dealer's lot was stuffed with wonderful Civics & Accords. But it's the CUVs that fly out of the door.
I know SUVs are all the rage, but I couldn't pass up $4600 off MSRP and above KBB trade in on the 4Runner.
The value proposition is wild with this car. 5.5 0-60 and a 14.4 quarter mile, 32 mpg, class leading back seat size, great dynamics, and a plush, quiet ride for under $28k.
Apparently they dropped quite a bit of weight from the previous gen. The only places it really shows: the roof sounds like a tin can in the rain. The trunk lid is really light and also sounds like cheap. That's about it.
Quote from: Morris Minor on September 08, 2018, 10:55:28 AM
it's the CUVs that fly out of the door.
Boomers with aching hips and flagging confidence levels. Lizard brain says I gotta sit high!
Quote from: Laconian on September 08, 2018, 11:41:56 AM
Boomers with aching hips and flagging confidence levels. Lizard brain says I gotta sit high!
Just you wait, those days are just down the road for you. When you reach the point of buying loafers because it hurts to bend down and tie your shoelaces, then you're gonna want an SUV. Lizard brain my ass :fogey:
Quote from: Laconian on September 08, 2018, 11:41:56 AM
Boomers with aching hips and flagging confidence levels. Lizard brain says I gotta sit high!
The utility of the cargo space is *really* handy - we ferry a lot of bulky stuff around, but point taken, the thing sits high - I have to use a step stool to be able to wash the roof. Side-by-side it towers over the G37... which is unsurprisingly more fun to drive on open roads.
When the time comes to replace the G - an Accord will be a front contender.
Quote from: MX793 on August 21, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
If you really want to throw a salesperson for a loop, try to keep the discussion to OTD price instead of monthly payment. And/or tell them you're not financing.
I didn't finance through the dealership (had my money ready through USAA), but didn't have any problem. The F&I manager told me he could get me a better rate....until I told him my deal with USAA. "I guess not," he said. He finished the paperwork, I signed and waited for my wife and daughter to come pick up the Focus and take it home.
I was so impressed with the changes in the this buying experience, that I considered trying to get on as a rep at the Honda dealer. The other dealer, one who had a used Crosstour EXL with 65K miles and almost the same money as the new C/T EX with 65 miles, didn't respond as quickly as I thought they should....but their sale department works just as it did for decades. The Honda dealer that I bought from had a sale representative---I hesitate to call them salespeople. He quoted me nada....he showed me the car, we road tested it, I told him I had financing, he walked into the F&I booth. I watched him talk to the men in there. He walked back to me with a quote that was so low I couldn't find an opening to go any lower.
It was easier making this purchase than anytime before----and I worked at the dealerships I bought from previously.
Quote from: FoMoJo on September 08, 2018, 09:00:57 AM
What make/model are you looking at?
Quote from: r0tor on September 08, 2018, 10:33:38 AM
Secret :mask:
Is it really a secret though? I think we all know you are buying a Subaru Outback with a trail rated CVT.
In the latest C/D lightning lap your Accord was faster than.....
BRZ
15' GTI
ND Miata
06' Mustang GT (lol)
08' R32
Another reason to love it.
It's almost unfair to compare lap times between cars decades apart.... the tires Duke, the tires!
The Accord holds its own though for sure. Its looks are growing on me too.
Plus the actual course changed a few years ago which cut off a few seconds
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 20, 2018, 09:21:43 PM
In the latest C/D lightning lap your Accord was faster than.....
BRZ
15' GTI
ND Miata
06' Mustang GT (lol)
08' R32
Another reason to love it.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 21, 2018, 05:57:33 AM
It's almost unfair to compare lap times between cars decades apart.... the tires Duke, the tires!
The Accord holds its own though for sure. Its looks are growing on me too.
The more I drive it, the less I'm surprised by this. I'm sure it would turn a much, much better time than my old Genesis R-Spec too, despite being down 177 horsepower.
It's not even tires. Tires on this car kind of suck. It's chassis composure, how wide the power band is, and the ability to put it down efficiently. The 10-speed is much better than Hyundai's 8-speed in the Genesis. Faster shifts, less lag in deciding what to do, much quicker torque converter lock up.
Those Honda V6s sure are nice. I enjoy when I get to drive one.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 21, 2018, 08:31:56 AM
Those Honda V6s sure are nice. I enjoy when I get to drive one.
Hmm. This is a 2.0T.
How's the 2.0T compare to a Honda V6?
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 21, 2018, 08:32:33 AM
Hmm. This is a 2.0T.
2.0Ts are surprisingly competent, when paired with a 9 or 10 speed transmission. Great response when you need it and amazing fuel economy when you can keep it just below the boost stage; which, it seems, they try to do.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on September 21, 2018, 09:52:30 AM
How's the 2.0T compare to a Honda V6?
2.0T makes like 100 more lb-ft at the wheels below 3K. Combine that with the 10AT and it has to be transformative.
My G's engine had a similar powerband to the J35's and while the low gears were decently aggressive sometimes it could be flat footed at low revs. I feel like on the street the Accord should always have ample thrust.
Yeah, this 2.0T is way better than any V6 Accord I've driven. Much quicker. It's actually better in auto mode than using the paddles too. If you're driving along and decide to give it more gas, the computer can determine how many gears to drop, and then execute way faster than if you try to click the paddle 4 times and wait for the transmission to execute each downshift.
Jumping multiple gears at a time is something you can't really replicate with a paddle setup.
Quote from: r0tor on September 21, 2018, 06:30:17 AM
Plus the actual course changed a few years ago which cut off a few seconds
WTF, they should reset the leaderboard, then. :facepalm:
Quote from: Laconian on September 21, 2018, 02:56:54 PM
WTF, they should reset the leaderboard, then. :facepalm:
They wrote an article where they basically said "tough shit, we're not changing the times"
I think they could have estimated the new lap times though.
Quote from: MrH on September 21, 2018, 11:26:31 AM
Yeah, this 2.0T is way better than any V6 Accord I've driven. Much quicker. It's actually better in auto mode than using the paddles too. If you're driving along and decide to give it more gas, the computer can determine how many gears to drop, and then execute way faster than if you try to click the paddle 4 times and wait for the transmission to execute each downshift.
Jumping multiple gears at a time is something you can't really replicate with a paddle setup.
I think some manufacturers have implemented a system where if you hold the downshift paddle it drops to the lowest possible gear.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on September 21, 2018, 09:52:30 AM
How's the 2.0T compare to a Honda V6?
It reminds us that, even with a third lopped off, an inline-six is still superior to a V6.
:stirspot:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 21, 2018, 05:57:33 AM
It's almost unfair to compare lap times between cars decades apart.... the tires Duke, the tires!
The Accord holds its own though for sure. Its looks are growing on me too.
It's a little...French. A sharp looker for sure.
Quote from: Submariner on September 24, 2018, 03:06:22 PM
It's a little...French. A sharp looker for sure.
It looks like a liftback. But it isn't, I'm guessing for structural rigidity reasons.
And liftbacks smell bad to Americans wary of any suggestion of non-SUV hatchbackery.
Can you get a body kit to replace the front end?
Quote from: Morris Minor on September 24, 2018, 03:24:59 PM
It looks like a liftback. But it isn't, I'm guessing for structural rigidity reasons.
And liftbacks smell bad to Americans wary of any suggestion of non-SUV hatchbackery.
The does feel incredibly rigid for it's weight. I agree, it's a whole lot easier to get great torisonal rigidity when you can run a big cross member along the rear shelf of a sedan.
After driving almost 2,000 miles in the accord, I think I've figured out my ideal daily driver: if they made a new Crosstour version of the current Accord. Doesn't even need the additional ride height. But a wagon body + AWD and it'd be perfect.
I love the way it looks.
Quote from: MrH on September 25, 2018, 06:26:51 PM
The does feel incredibly rigid for it's weight. I agree, it's a whole lot easier to get great torisonal rigidity when you can run a big cross member along the rear shelf of a sedan.
After driving almost 2,000 miles in the accord, I think I've figured out my ideal daily driver: if they made a new Crosstour version of the current Accord. Doesn't even need the additional ride height. But a wagon body + AWD and it'd be perfect.
My dad had a Saab 9000 liftback back in the day. It was floppy, & creaked over the bumps.
(But not as bad as my mother-in-law's brand new Buick Cascada, which has the structural rigidity of a fettucine noodle that has been boiled for 3 1/2 hours.)
Maybe they could make a liftback with a removable rear strut brace. Would have been great in my 350Z. Remove and put in front seat at Home Depot. Put back at track day.
Only Europe buys liftbacks.
Also, no one really buys this class of car except the US, and we generally prefer sedans.
The only liftback D-segment left is the Insignia/Regal, and the EU Mondeo. Everywhere else is all sedans. Why develop a liftback when it seems to be the worst aspects of a sedan and a wagon?
Is the Civic or crosstour a lift back?
Liftbacks are great. I've never understood why they are so unpopular stateside.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 27, 2018, 06:02:30 AM
Maybe they could make a liftback with a removable rear strut brace. Would have been great in my 350Z. Remove and put in front seat at Home Depot. Put back at track day.
It's not going to provide much, if any, structural rigidity if it snaps into place. Bolting something in would be a no-go for an OEM.
Tesla Model S is a liftback, the Model 3 is not. I think Musk wanted to make the model 3 a liftback but in order to get max headroom in the backseat, he had to make it a sedan.
4 series and A5/7 are liftbacks
Quote from: MrH on September 28, 2018, 07:27:21 AM
It's not going to provide much, if any, structural rigidity if it snaps into place. Bolting something in would be a no-go for an OEM.
Oh, you could make a snap-in brace that's effective.
Nobody would use it.
I would
And bolt in strut braces are effective.
Quote from: veeman on September 28, 2018, 07:39:30 AM
Tesla Model S is a liftback, the Model 3 is not. I think Musk wanted to make the model 3 a liftback but in order to get max headroom in the backseat, he had to make it a sedan.
That sounds like a cop out. The Model 3 has awkward packaging, and I suspect that big one piece of roof glass is part of the culprit.
VIR Accord fun fact
The brakes went soft and warning light went on after exactly 1 braking zone and a full set of pads would only last 10 laps.
It's also a midsized sedan not really meant for the track.
What do you expect
Just a fun fact in C&D... Holy let's get defensive batman
Quote from: 2o6 on October 01, 2018, 05:47:02 PM
It's also a midsized sedan not really meant for the track.
What do you expect
So what you're telling us is that it's perfect for Sporty's next track toy.
Sorry sporty, couldn't help myself :lol:
Quote from: MrH on October 01, 2018, 06:07:15 PM
So what you're telling us is that it's perfect for Sporty's next track toy.
Sorry sporty, couldn't help myself :lol:
This should be noted
Quote from: MrH on October 01, 2018, 06:07:15 PM
So what you're telling us is that it's perfect for Sporty's next track toy.
Sorry sporty, couldn't help myself :lol:
Ha ha ha.
G was actually pretty solid on the track; a few people track them. Engine stayed cool, brake pedal never faded. I just overdrove and the VSC failed. And there were walls.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 01, 2018, 07:08:56 PM
Ha ha ha.
G was actually pretty solid on the track; a few people track them. Engine stayed cool, brake pedal never faded. I just overdrove and the VSC failed. And there were walls.
VSC failed = not the definition of "solid" in my book
VSC didn't fail ;).
Infiniti G is a tank.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 01, 2018, 09:25:29 PM
VSC didn't fail ;).
Infiniti G is a tank.
The light went solid, and the car spun out in the next corner after 2 sessions of no drama. It failed.
I'd live to change out my G. i still love it... but I want a new toy.
However my financial plan does not include a new car for a few years.
I'm glad my Accord thread will forever be named "I hate dealerships".
Dropped it off to get tinted today. Lots of different types of tint materials out there. Ended up going 30% metallic. Sounds like cell phone reception isn't really an issue with it anymore, but it was more gray and less tan looking. Hopefully this will keep the heat out a bit. The car is like a glass oven in the sunlight.
I still love my Crosstour. I've long had a thing for hatchbacks/liftbacks. There were a couple of Jensen Interceptors in the San Mateo neighborhood I worked---just a beautiful.
Speaking of brakes, we used to support a driver at the Honda dealer in California where I was the parts manager. I asked him why he bought standard brake pads for his car instead of higher grade pads intended for the track. (Cheaper he said). I asked about brake fade--and he said he baked his brake pads in an oven for 2-3 hours and brake fade wasn't a problem with that method.
Is that still a thing? or simply a trick of the time for amateur racers?
I've heard of people baking pads to decontaminate them, like if they got oil or something on them, but never anything related to fade.
Quote from: giant_mtb on October 13, 2018, 07:44:32 AM
I've heard of people baking pads to decontaminate them, like if they got oil or something on them, but never anything related to fade.
I tried to google it once, but found nothing. This guy raced CRX-si (previously raced Ford Fiestas) and apparently this was a common thing at the time (1980s) before installing new brake pads on the race car.
I am shocked.... Hondas have shit brakes out of the box, and ovens don't get anywhere near actual brake temperatures.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 15, 2018, 05:43:27 AM
I am shocked.... Hondas have shit brakes out of the box, and ovens don't get anywhere near actual brake temperatures.
I don't think it was about get to racing temps. If I recall, it was a long bake at a lower/medium temp. The heat changed some molecular property of the brake pad material..... or something. It's been since 1985 that I had this discussion. I was hoping someone here may remember or know more about it.
There's no way that's valid anymore. If there was a benefit to doing such a thing, it would be done during the manufacturing of the pads.
Quote from: MrH on October 15, 2018, 01:11:08 PM
There's no way that's valid anymore. If there was a benefit to doing such a thing, it would be done during the manufacturing of the pads.
Seems it is a benefit. I found this after your post. Nothing about amateur racing tricks, but now I wonder if there is an added benefit to assure there are no lingering impurities.
https://www.davrontech.com/news/curing-ovens-for-brake-pads-and-linings/
Quote from: JWC on October 15, 2018, 12:51:04 PM
I don't think it was about get to racing temps. If I recall, it was a long bake at a lower/medium temp. The heat changed some molecular property of the brake pad material..... or something. It's been since 1985 that I had this discussion. I was hoping someone here may remember or know more about it.
Back in my day, we'd take out the brake shoes, dust the drums, put in the new ones, and if they could bring the car to a stop inside the time it took for you to die of asbestosis, you knew you'd done a good job.
Those days are back again. Brakes can have asbestos once more! Yay!
Quote from: Morris Minor on October 18, 2018, 04:18:31 PM
Back in my day, we'd take out the brake shoes, dust the drums, put in the new ones, and if they could bring the car to a stop inside the time it took for you to die of asbestosis, you knew you'd done a good job.
I've told my wife and daughter that if I die of lung cancer, call the lawyers on TV---I've loaded an unknown number of burlap sacks filled with brake shoe cores.
Quote from: JWC on October 19, 2018, 12:06:08 PM
I've told my wife and daughter that if I die of lung cancer, call the lawyers on TV---I've loaded an unknown number of burlap sacks filled with brake shoe cores.
We had asbestos blankets in the ironworkers, that we still used to protect stuff as we were torching things apart.
Quote from: JWC on October 19, 2018, 12:06:08 PM
I've told my wife and daughter that if I die of lung cancer, call the lawyers on TV---I've loaded an unknown number of burlap sacks filled with brake shoe cores.
LOL, if you even just glance at a TV during daytime hours, you have a 80% chance to see the word MESOTHELIOMA.
I was lucky to never be much of a brake guy in my years as a mechanic. They took asbestos out of brake parts in 1997.
Quote from: Laconian on October 19, 2018, 12:54:28 PM
LOL, if you even just glance at a TV during daytime hours, you have a 80% chance to see the word MESOTHELIOMA.
My wife's step-brothers actually did this, over our objections, not long after her father passed away. He smoked, but also worked around asbestos as a government inspector. We stopped objecting after the first $5,000 check arrived. After all the participating companies paid their part, the total came to around $50,000 total. That was just our share of among five kids.
Quote from: MrH on September 25, 2018, 06:26:51 PM
The does feel incredibly rigid for it's weight. I agree, it's a whole lot easier to get great torisonal rigidity when you can run a big cross member along the rear shelf of a sedan.
After driving almost 2,000 miles in the accord, I think I've figured out my ideal daily driver: if they made a new Crosstour version of the current Accord. Doesn't even need the additional ride height. But a wagon body + AWD and it'd be perfect.
Are there any issues with gasoline diluting the oil, as in the 1.5T?
Not that I've heard of? I haven't been looking for it either though.
I drove 3 friends in it this weekend back from a wedding we attended. One girl said it was the nicest car she's ever been in. They asked what it was. When I said it's Accord, the reaction: "if this is an Accord, what is a BMW like these days?" :lol:
#VTEC4Lyfe
Quote from: MrH on October 22, 2018, 04:27:12 PM
One girl said it was the nicest car she's ever been in.
...
I mean, the Accord is nice for the price, but she hasn't been in anything better...?
Quote from: MrH on October 22, 2018, 04:27:12 PM
"if this is an Accord, what is a BMW like these days?"
Send her over, I'll adjust her expectations as needed.
Quote from: MrH on October 22, 2018, 04:27:12 PM
Not that I've heard of? I haven't been looking for it either though.
I drove 3 friends in it this weekend back from a wedding we attended. One girl said it was the nicest car she's ever been in. They asked what it was. When I said it's Accord, the reaction: "if this is an Accord, what is a BMW like these days?" :lol:
#VTEC4Lyfe
I've said it for a very long time - cover up the badges and 98% of new car buyers wouldn't be able to distinguish a Camcord from a "luxury" car when it came to actual luxury. If anything, the Camcords are getting better and luxury - esp. the poser class - is getting worse (terrible electronics, ever harsher ride quality in the pursuit of "sport", downgrade from V6 to turbo-4).