Cool comparo
Fiat 500 Abarth Review (Tiny Turbos Pt.1) -- Everyday Driver (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY6TYmdLrcc#ws)
Ford Fiesta ST Review (Tiny Turbos Pt. 2) -- Everyday Driver (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMtk57OVgjU#ws)
A 2013 Abarth like he's trying to get will be WAY cheaper than a Fiesta ST.
For me the cool of the Abarth overcomes the excellence of the ST. Too boy racerish.
I love the looks of the Abarth and, being taller, I would, likely, fit in it better. It would be a tough choice for me. That's not to say that the ST would not be as appealing...after a test drive.
I wish we got the 3-door Fiesta. The swoopier shape of the Fiesta (as opposed to other hatches like the Golf) really lends itself to the 3-door configuration.
I didn't even need to watch the second video to decide which I'd rather have.
HNNG Abarth
Quote from: 68_427 on May 16, 2014, 11:47:06 AM
I didn't even need to watch the second video to decide which I'd rather have.
HNNG Abarth
:lol:
The Abarth is amazing. Still trying to put that deal together, though a 2014 GTI is might tempting as well.
I could Finance one if I wanted... This is horrible.
http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/new/searchresults.action?sourceContext=NewCarsTab&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d1327&zip=14623&distance=MILES_75#listing=67797288 (http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/new/searchresults.action?sourceContext=NewCarsTab&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d1327&zip=14623&distance=MILES_75#listing=67797288)
oh god
$220/mo for 5 years? :lol:
I haven't driven an Abarth yet, but I sure enjoyed the Fiesta ( non turbo ). However, it was a tight squeeze for me. I'm only 6'1. The room would mean a lot. If the performance is similar ( in the Abarth ), money would almost not even be a consideration.
I doubt raza would ever buy a fiesta. He's way too much of an snob to be seen in a lowly ford.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on May 16, 2014, 03:10:01 PM
I doubt raza would ever buy a fiesta. He's way too much of an snob to be seen in a lowly ford.
As much as I want to refute this, it's probably true.......
Just got a no on the Abarth.
BRB gunna cry forever. It's on my must drive list before I die.
Given the choice between these two, the decision really comes down to how I would be using the car. If this were to be my only car, then the extra doors and larger space of the Fiesta wins out. However, if I already had another car to use for all the boring practical stuff then the Abarth wins.
Either way, these are two fantastic cars imbued with character, a commodity sorely lacking in most of today's personal transportation appliances.
Quote from: 68_427 on May 16, 2014, 04:17:43 PM
Just got a no on the Abarth.
BRB gunna cry forever. It's on my must drive list before I die.
A no from who?
And I agree that it's a great car; not sure it's a bucket list car though.
Wish Fiat would give the same treatment to + bring over the damn Panda. If you can believe it, that car drives way better than the top heavy 500.
My mom who would match my down payment and pays my insurance.
I've driven both.
I liked the Fiesta more.
The long haired guy creeped me out.
"It puts the lotion in the basket or it gets the hose."
He's considering buying these cars/GTI?
Obviously a case of more money than sense.
I swear to god, you must be in 9th grade or something.
Quote from: Char on May 20, 2014, 04:40:43 PM
He's considering buying these cars/GTI?
Obviously a case of more money than sense.
So what should he be considering?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 21, 2014, 08:05:26 AM
So what should he be considering?
Something that 9th graders think is cool.
Like a stanced E46 wagon.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on May 16, 2014, 03:10:01 PM
I doubt raza would ever buy a fiesta. He's way too much of an snob to be seen in a lowly ford.
Is a fiat (sans ferarri and other subsidaries) really that much more upscale than ford, foreign yes, upscale not really.
Hmm, in these two cars, the 500 is defenitely nicer inside.
Quote from: SVT32V on May 21, 2014, 11:42:50 AM
Is a fiat (sans ferarri and other subsidaries) really that much more upscale than ford, foreign yes, upscale not really.
The interior is quite nice for a car its size and price, and being Italian, as with all other Italian cars, it's forgiven small issues because of its character.
Quote from: Raza on May 21, 2014, 12:52:23 PM
The interior is quite nice for a car its size and price, and being Italian, as with all other Italian cars, it's forgiven small issues because of its character.
Surprising number of people can't wrap their head around this.
Quote from: Raza on May 21, 2014, 12:52:23 PM
The interior is quite nice for a car its size and price, and being Italian, as with all other Italian cars, it's forgiven small issues because of its character.
Yeah, because a
nice interior is totally why I'm looking for a
fun compact car. If you want a nice interior, buy a Midsize/entry level luxury car.
Sounds like you are (and everyone else) are making excuses for a car with high price and many shortcomings.
"Char, it's a great car in comparison to a ___" Like most things Carspin, these false equivalence statements aren't quantified by anything outside of interior appearance. It's an overpriced POS, and you're really better off buying a used car.
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 12:38:17 PM
Yeah, because a nice interior is totally why I'm looking for a fun compact car. If you want a nice interior, buy a Midsize/entry level luxury car.
Sounds like you are (and everyone else) are making excuses for a car with high price and many shortcomings.
"Char, it's a great car in comparison to a ___" Like most things Carspin, these false equivalence statements aren't quantified by anything outside of interior appearance. It's an overpriced POS, and you're really better off buying a used car.
Why do Raza's car buying decisions have such a profound personal affect on you?
And yes, when shopping in a segment, comparing cars doesn't seem very unreasonable. But you rarely exercise reason
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 23, 2014, 12:40:20 PM
Why do Raza's car buying decisions have such a profound personal affect on you?
And yes, when shopping in a segment, comparing cars doesn't seem very unreasonable. But you rarely exercise reason
What's unreasonable about buying a better car in the price range? What about a Fiat or GTI is worth their price? Oh the interior quality - for that price you're nearing E90 M3 prices which offer more features, power, reliability and prestige than 2 fwd shitboxes.
And I'm unreasonable.
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 12:42:59 PM
What's unreasonable about buying a better car in the price range? What about a Fiat or GTI is worth their price? Oh the interior quality - for that price you're nearing E90 M3 prices which offer more features, power, reliability and prestige than 2 fwd shitboxes.
And I'm unreasonable.
You're in high school and probably have never actually turned a wrench on a car, made a payment, or dealt with a service department. Or even driven a car..
Quote from: 2o6 on May 23, 2014, 12:48:12 PM
You're in high school and probably have never actually turned a wrench on a car, made a payment, or dealt with a service department. Or even driven a car..
Ad hominem.
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 12:49:43 PM
Ad hominem.
Your opinions make absolutely no sense.
If you want to deride Fiat and or Vw for making a poor quality car that may or may not breakdown, then fine. I'm not keen on Fiat or VW either.
But clearly you've never driven either car, or any of them at all - both of those cars are incredibly good driving, fun to drive little things. You can't emote or describe what you dislike about the car, you just say 'it's shit' over and over again.
Quote from: 2o6 on May 23, 2014, 12:54:20 PM
Your opinions make absolutely no sense.
If you want to deride Fiat and or Vw for making a poor quality car that may or may not breakdown, then fine. I'm not keen on Fiat or VW either.
But clearly you've never driven either car, or any of them at all - both of those cars are incredibly good driving, fun to drive little things. You can't emote or describe what you dislike about the car, you just say 'it's shit' over and over again.
I just did - I made a comparison to a car that was better in every objective way: Interior quality, dependability, power, handling, etc. Save fuel economy and wanting to repel the opposite sex, why would you consider one of these cars?
As a car enthusiast, I absolutely look down on people who own these cars as
stupid consumers.
Have you driven one?
You look at quantatitve measures like a textbook.
Drive the car, then tell us how you feel.
Quote from: 2o6 on May 23, 2014, 01:11:47 PM
Have you driven one?
You look at quantatitve measures like a textbook.
Drive the car, then tell us how you feel.
I'm positive I've had more experience in the cars mentioned than you have - what leg do you literally have to stand on at this point?
Have you driven the car?
No?
Then shut the fuck up.
Quote from: 2o6 on May 23, 2014, 01:17:14 PM
Have you driven the car?
No?
Then shut the fuck up.
Do you thik the 500 will be in the same league as an E92? Have you ever even driven an E92? What about a Golf/Jetta GTI?
I'm positive that's a no to all the above - Time to take your own advice.
Have you driven the car?
No?
Then shut the fuck up.
I haven't driven an E92, no, but I have driven the GTI, Fiesta ST and Abarth 500. I don't know what he E92 drives like, nor was I comparing it.
And honestly, I don't think you know what the E92 drives like, either.
Quote from: 2o6 on May 23, 2014, 01:24:00 PM
Have you driven the car?
No?
Then shut the fuck up.
I haven't driven an E92, no, but I have driven the GTI, Fiesta ST and Abarth 500. I don't know what he E92 drives like, nor was I comparing it.
And honestly, I don't think you know what the E92 drives like, either.
I've Driven the GTI and the E92, surprise - the BMW is a better car. Do I think my opinion will change when I drive a hotrodded economy car...no.
What does a GTI offer over an Accord V6, or any other entry level luxury car (TSX) or a preowned GT car like the M3? Objectively speaking, what makes the 500 worth it's $25,000 price tag in light of its lackluster performance?
Until you can answer those questions without triggering an emotional response like a prepubescent girl, sit down, and shut the fuck up. I've long since been tired of your pointless banter.
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 12:42:59 PM
What's unreasonable about buying a better car in the price range? What about a Fiat or GTI is worth their price? Oh the interior quality - for that price you're nearing E90 M3 prices which offer more features, power, reliability and prestige than 2 fwd shitboxes.
And I'm unreasonable.
An E90 M3 and features like horsepower and prestige are hardly rational either. So knocking someone for wanting to buy a new car and then suggesting something as expensive and high maintenance as an M3 is pretty fucking stupid and contradictory.
And 2o6's point is valid... you make character judgments on what people drive and like but don't have any actual context or experience for making car purchases, and then get mad when nobody takes you seriously :huh:
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 01:35:34 PM
I've Driven the GTI and the E92, surprise - the BMW is a better car. Do I think my opinion will change when I drive a hotrodded economy car...no.
What does a GTI offer over an Accord V6, or any other entry level luxury car (TSX) or a preowned GT car like the M3? Objectively speaking, what makes the 500 worth it's $25,000 price tag in light of its lackluster performance?
Until you can answer those questions without triggering an emotional response like a prepubescent girl, sit down, and shut the fuck up. I've long since been tired of your pointless banter.
You haven't driven the car.
STFU.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 23, 2014, 01:45:37 PM
An E90 M3 and features like horsepower and prestige are hardly rational either. So knocking someone for wanting to buy a new car and then suggesting something as expensive and high maintenance as an M3 is pretty fucking stupid and contradictory.
And 2o6's point is valid... you make character judgments on what people drive and like but don't have any actual context or experience for making car purchases, and then get mad when nobody takes you seriously :huh:
He really reminds me of Me, Rags, Ro, and all of us young people when we used to pretend we knew shit when we were like 15.
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 01:35:34 PM
What does a GTI offer over an Accord V6, or any other entry level luxury car (TSX) or a preowned GT car like the M3?
GTI is just as fast as an Accord V6, while getting significantly better gas mileage and being a ton more practical. TSX is a good second and a half off from the GTI in a straight line and lower on grip as well. Also not as practical. M3 is not practical, and while the cost of entry is the same, the cost of ownership is significantly higher. And its added performance is not really accessible on the road- how often are you going to take a 400HP car to redline? Sure, the M3 is a more fun car to drive, but that doesn't mean it's a better car
to own, in the context of Raza's individual tastes and needs. I guess it's not reasonable for me to expect a 15 year old to have the perspective to understand that other people might justifiably not see or want things the way they do though.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 23, 2014, 01:45:37 PM
An E90 M3 and features like horsepower and prestige are hardly rational either.
It's rational. Try me.
Quote from: 2o6 on May 23, 2014, 01:48:38 PM
He really reminds me of Me, Rags, Ro, and all of us young people when we used to pretend we knew shit when we were like 15.
It's almost endearing.
I'm curious to know who let a 15 year old drive their M3 enthusiastically as well.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 23, 2014, 01:45:37 PM
An E90 M3 and features like horsepower and prestige are hardly rational either. So knocking someone for wanting to buy a new car and then suggesting something as expensive and high maintenance as an M3 is pretty fucking stupid and contradictory.
And 2o6's point is valid... you make character judgments on what people drive and like but don't have any actual context or experience for making car purchases, and then get mad when nobody takes you seriously :huh:
No, it's completely rational. You asked why I brought the BMW into this comparison of compacts, the logical answer was it's within the same pricerange. Because unlike carspin, most consumers will cross shop on features AND price, they don't care what "class" a car fits in. Next, the M3 is a performance vehicle, like the GTI and 500 pretend to be, if he was looking for something "practical", then why look at a VW with it's carbon buildup, shit reliablity and average fuel economy?
Finally, NOTHING 206 says is valid - he, much like you, spouts off stupid shit. I hate VW, I hate hatchbacks - get over it. You like stupid shitty cars, and that's fine too I suppose.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on May 23, 2014, 01:58:44 PM
It's rational. Try me.
It's not rational, just like my car, or any high maintenance, high performance car is not rational. Irrational != bad, but Char is dead wrong in claiming the GTI is less rational than an M3.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on May 23, 2014, 01:58:44 PM
It's rational. Try me.
Don't bother, obviously no one buys an M3 as a daily driver. We all are better off driving VW Golf GTI's and 500s.
Besides, they are speaking from personal experience of owning a BMW and driving it - right?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 23, 2014, 02:05:08 PM
It's not rational, just like my car, or any high maintenance, high performance car is not rational. Irrational != bad, but Char is dead wrong in claiming the GTI is less rational than an M3.
By that statement, any car bigger and more powerful than a Versa is not rational. And what experience do you have with the M3 to make a statement in regards to ownership cost?
Oh, and I thought I would mention the Accord is bigger, faster and has better EPA fuel economy figures when compared the GTI. :violin:
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 02:03:26 PM
No, it's completely rational. You asked why I brought the BMW into this comparison of compacts, the logical answer was it's within the same pricerange. Because unlike carspin, most consumers will cross shop on features AND price, they don't care what "class" a car fits in.
Raza has explicitly said he's looking for something practical and cheap to run to supplement his Z4. You are projecting your wants on to him.
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 02:03:26 PMNext, the M3 is a performance vehicle, like the GTI and 500 pretend to be, if he was looking for something "practical", then why look at a VW with it's carbon buildup, shit reliablity and average fuel economy?
He's had good experiences with VWs. The carbon buildup and reliability are non issues now with the TFSI motors. And if the VW's ~25MPG combined is "average", what is the Accord's 22MPG (with the same exact performance as the GTI) or the M3's
16? Either you have no idea what gas mileage different cars get, or you have a double standard when it comes to VW. Either way you're an idiot.
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 02:03:26 PMFinally, NOTHING 206 says is valid - he, much like you, spouts off stupid shit. I hate VW, I hate hatchbacks - get over it. You like stupid shitty cars, and that's fine too I suppose.
Hating VWs is one thing. Making yourself look like an idiot to try and convince everyone to hate it to the same irrational extremes you do is another.
Like I said, this kid is 15.
Maybe 16 with a beat to shit 325e.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 23, 2014, 02:15:18 PM
Raza has explicitly said he's looking for something practical and cheap to run to supplement his Z4. You are projecting your wants on to him.
He's had good experiences with VWs. The carbon buildup and reliability are non issues now with the TFSI motors. And if the VW's ~25MPG combined is "average", what is the Accord's 22MPG (with the same exact performance as the GTI) or the M3's 16? Either you have no idea what gas mileage different cars get, or you have a double standard when it comes to VW. Either way you're an idiot.
Hating VWs is one thing. Making yourself look like an idiot to try and convince everyone to hate it to the same irrational extremes you do is another.
If it's in bold, you're wrong about it.
Accord tested results, including EPA numbers
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-sedan-v-6-test-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-sedan-v-6-test-review)
GTI test results, including EPA numbers
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2015-volkswagen-gti-vs-2013-ford-focus-st-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4 (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2015-volkswagen-gti-vs-2013-ford-focus-st-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4)
Do I spy the Accord's number for highway and AS TESTED as higher than the GTI> Couldn't be.
And what's this?
http://www.more-bhp.com/20tfsi_42fsi_rs4_carbon_valve_cleaning.html (http://www.more-bhp.com/20tfsi_42fsi_rs4_carbon_valve_cleaning.html)
A website providing a service to clean TFSI motor from carbon buildup. The same issue you can see for youself if you just...google searched it before making youself look like an
idiot? It's fine though, I did the leg work for you.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 23, 2014, 02:05:08 PM
It's not rational, just like my car, or any high maintenance, high performance car is not rational. Irrational != bad, but Char is dead wrong in claiming the GTI is less rational than an M3.
Well, there is no better sedan for the same or less money that fits 4 people & luggage in a reasonably comfortable way, is luxurious with a premium badge (I care about that) and can hand lots of Porsches their ass on the track while being almost as fun to drive as them.
As an all-around balls-out car, it really can't be beat. Rationally. C&D said back then "All other manufacturers should stop what they're doing and just start making M3s".
Now the Z....
:lol:
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 02:07:23 PM
And what experience do you have with the M3 to make a statement in regards to ownership cost?
I don't need to own an M3 to know it uses 9 liters of 10W60, an expensive + specialized oil, which costs more than the GTI's 5 quarts of 0/5/10W40. I don't need to own an M3 to know that it has significantly larger tires and brakes than the GTI, and goes through them faster than the GTI does its tires. I don't need to own an M3 to know one-off repairs for it like clutches and radiators will be a lot more expensive than the GTI.
Not to mention, you have owned neither, but surprise surprise :wanker: you were pretty sure the GTI would be super expensive to maintain lmao. Hypocrite much?
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 02:12:54 PM
Oh, and I thought I would mention the Accord is bigger, faster and has better EPA fuel economy figures when compared the GTI. :violin:
Lol
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34315&id=34169&id=25906 (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34315&id=34169&id=25906)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-coupe-v-6-manual-test-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-coupe-v-6-manual-test-review)
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2015-volkswagen-gti-vs-2013-ford-focus-st-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4 (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2015-volkswagen-gti-vs-2013-ford-focus-st-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4)
Not to mention all your strawmen (who said anything about the GTI/500 being in the same league as an M3?)
This is hard to watch.
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 02:23:29 PM
If it's in bold, you're wrong about it.
Accord tested results, including EPA numbers
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-sedan-v-6-test-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-sedan-v-6-test-review)
GTI test results, including EPA numbers
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2015-volkswagen-gti-vs-2013-ford-focus-st-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4 (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2015-volkswagen-gti-vs-2013-ford-focus-st-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4)
Do I spy the Accord's number for highway and AS TESTED as higher than the GTI> Couldn't be.
And what's this?
http://www.more-bhp.com/20tfsi_42fsi_rs4_carbon_valve_cleaning.html (http://www.more-bhp.com/20tfsi_42fsi_rs4_carbon_valve_cleaning.html)
A website providing a service to clean TFSI motor from carbon buildup. The same issue you can see for youself if you just...google searched it before making youself look like an idiot? It's fine though, I did the leg work for you.
Lol
OK lets tally up
Sporty- wrong about carbon buildup no longer being an issue for TFSI motors
Char- wrong about the kind of car Raza wants (which makes your whole endeavor here, even when you are right, wrong), wrong about an Accord V6 6 speed coupe being faster or equal to/better on gas than a GTI (your link is to an automatic differently tuned sedan lmao), wrong about a GTI being as expensive to run as an M3, wrong about anyone suggesting a GTI or 500 was in the same league as an M3, wrong about a GTI's fuel economy being below average.... hmmm did I miss anything guys?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 23, 2014, 02:26:46 PM
I don't need to own an M3 to know it uses 9 liters of 10W60, an expensive + specialized oil, which costs more than the GTI's 5 quarts of 0/5/10W40. I don't need to own an M3 to know that it has significantly larger tires and brakes than the GTI, and goes through them faster than the GTI does its tires. I don't need to own an M3 to know one-off repairs for it like clutches and radiators will be a lot more expensive than the GTI.
Not to mention, you have owned neither, but surprise surprise :wanker: you were pretty sure
Lol
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34315&id=34169&id=25906 (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34315&id=34169&id=25906)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-coupe-v-6-manual-test-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-coupe-v-6-manual-test-review)
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2015-volkswagen-gti-vs-2013-ford-focus-st-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4 (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2015-volkswagen-gti-vs-2013-ford-focus-st-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4)
Not to mention all your strawmen (who said anything about the GTI/500 being in the same league as an M3?)
This is hard to watch.
Wait, what do I own? First it was a Nissan Quest, now it's no car, so how do you know what I have PERSONAL experience with since I never shared that information? And when is the last time your M3 needed it's radiator replaced? I know that I would be looking for a costly repair when the turbo fails, or some of the rubber fittings in the engine bay go because of the heat it generates - something that wouldn't be a problem with an M3. Hell, why no a 1 series N/A?
Didn't bother to click the links, because I posted a 2 different articles that backed up what I claimed. The Accord is faster (posting a higher trap speed in the 1/4mile) and offers better highway fuel economy as well as better "as tested" fuel economy.
Painful indeed/
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 23, 2014, 02:32:17 PM
Lol
OK lets tally up
Sporty- wrong about carbon buildup no longer being an issue for TFSI motors
Char- wrong about the kind of car Raza wants (which makes your whole endeavor here, even when you are right, wrong), wrong about an Accord V6 6 speed coupe being faster or equal to/better on gas than a GTI (your link is to an automatic differently tuned sedan lmao), wrong about a GTI being as expensive to run as an M3, wrong about anyone suggesting a GTI or 500 was in the same league as an M3, wrong about a GTI's fuel economy being below average.... hmmm did I miss anything guys?
I never mentioned any specific configuration (sedan/coupe) outside of engine choice (V6) Try again. My point still stands. Never suggested the GTI was in the same league as the M3, quite the contrary, never suggested the M3 was cheaper to own than the GTI either. So it seems you missed a lot, you might want to go back and try reading this again.
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 02:33:29 PM
Wait, what do I own? First it was a Nissan Quest, now it's no car, so how do you know what I have PERSONAL experience with since I never shared that information? And when is the last time your M3 needed it's radiator replaced? I know that I would be looking for a costly repair when the turbo fails, or some of the rubber fittings in the engine bay go because of the heat it generates - something that wouldn't be a problem with an M3. Hell, why no a 1 series N/A?
Didn't bother to click the links, because I posted a 2 different articles that backed up what I claimed. The Accord is faster (posting a higher trap speed in the 1/4mile) and offers better highway fuel economy as well as better "as tested" fuel economy.
Painful indeed/
Accord link you posted is to an automatic sedan- pretty much the opposite of what Raza wants.
And why not end the speculation and just post what you drive? Who let you drive their M3? Where did you drive it? Since when does how a car drives equate to all that matters about buying/owning it? Who in here said the GTI/500 were comparable to an M3 performance wise? Lol. You can't make new strawmen until you dig yourself out of the hole your old ones made.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34169&id=25906&id=34346 (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34169&id=25906&id=34346)
:ohyeah:
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 02:36:41 PM
I never mentioned any specific configuration (sedan/coupe) outside of engine choice (V6) Try again. My point still stands. Never suggested the GTI was in the same league as the M3, quite the contrary, never suggested the M3 was cheaper to own than the GTI either. So it seems you missed a lot, you might want to go back and try reading this again.
Raza doesn't want an Accord V6 automatic or an M3 or cars like them. In fact, here is how he is approaching this purchase in his own words.
Quote from: Raza on April 06, 2014, 05:38:46 AM
The plan was always to get something more city and all-weather friendly than the Z4 and give the Z4 a rest from the daily grind; plus, the in the neighborhood where school is, my Z4 would stick out like a neon sign that said "ROB ME".
I was planning on spending 8-10K on a used car, but my brother convinced me to look new so I'd have a warranty. This car convinced me to listen to him.
So what exactly
IS your point?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 23, 2014, 02:38:54 PM
Accord link you posted is to an automatic sedan- pretty much the opposite of what Raza wants.
And why not end the speculation and just post what you drive? Who let you drive their M3? Where did you drive it? Since when does how a car drives equate to all that matters about buying/owning it? Who in here said the GTI/500 were comparable to an M3 performance wise? Lol. You can't make new strawmen until you dig yourself out of the hole your old ones made.
Let's try this again, because you seem to have a hard time reading.
I don't think the GTI is a bargin of any sort, I made the comparison to an Accord V6 as a car that offers MORE practicality, performance and fuel economy - I provided a comparison of both vehicles that proved my point. If Raza wants a sporty car, why is he picking the VW that is a hatchback with the most boring engine in existence? Who knows.
The M3 is better in every single objective performance measurement and can be had near GTI prices. Again no one stated the GTI was on the M3's level, just simply there are USED cars that are better deals than a fucking factory riced shitbox. How you twisted this into some drawn out argument where I you believed I claimed the Golf competes with the M3, I don't know.
Finally, again what do you know of what I personally drive or what I drove?
Back up from the keyboard and take a deep breath and try not to get so emotinally invested in an arguement about cars. You like your shitty little Rabbit, great, I don't.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 23, 2014, 02:42:10 PM
Raza doesn't want an Accord V6 automatic or an M3 or cars like them. In fact, here is how he is approaching this purchase in his own words.
So what exactly IS your point?
What's yours? Where in that criteria did he state that the car can't be used? Pre owned cars don't have warrantys? I'm opening up the discussion from 2 subpar cars into other options, aand just because YOU don't agree, doesn't make it wrong; just shut up and enjoy your shit sandwich.
In what world is a 16K Abarth similarly priced to an e90/2 M3?
Quote from: 68_427 on May 23, 2014, 02:59:37 PM
In what world is a 16K Abarth similarly priced to an e90/2 M3?
http://www.fiatusa.com/en/abarth/ (http://www.fiatusa.com/en/abarth/)
:rolleyes:
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 02:49:57 PM
Let's try this again, because you seem to have a hard time reading.
I don't think the GTI is a bargin of any sort, I made the comparison to an Accord V6 as a car that offers MORE practicality, performance and fuel economy - I provided a comparison of both vehicles that proved my point.
Again, no way Raza would buy an automatic anything. So the sedan is out. Even if it wasn't though, for single dude whose current ride is a 2 seater, what added practicality does the Accord add that the GTI doesn't? The GTI can haul the same 5 passengers, and is more versatile for carrying cargo/stuff. Also, Raza wants a
city car... so the GTI/500's better city gas mileage and easier parking are more relevant than the Accord V6's ????? or the M3's ????????
Not to mention, the only performance metrics an Accord V6 matches the GTI in is in a straight line. Lol @ the skidpad grip and braking.
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 02:49:57 PMIf Raza wants a sporty car, why is he picking the VW that is a hatchback with the most boring engine in existence? Who knows.
For a
new, stickshift, performance oriented,
city friendly car, what other choices does he have?
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 02:49:57 PMThe M3 is better in every single objective performance measurement and can be had near GTI prices.
Lol, because objective performance measurements are the driving metrics behind this purchase, right? Or just your bench racing based "automotive enthusiasm".
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 02:49:57 PMAgain no one stated the GTI was on the M3's level, just simply there are USED cars that are better deals than a fucking factory riced shitbox. How you twisted this into some drawn out argument where I you believed I claimed the Golf competes with the M3, I don't know.
You didn't claim it was on the level, you just claimed everyone who disagreed with you did.
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 02:55:30 PM
What's yours? Where in that criteria did he state that the car can't be used?
In the part where he said his brother convinced him to buy new.
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 03:08:09 PM
http://www.fiatusa.com/en/abarth/ (http://www.fiatusa.com/en/abarth/)
:rolleyes:
Lol... a fully loaded Abarth is $26K. Where is Raza going to get an E90 M3 with a warranty for anywhere close to that?
Raza is getting a screaming deal in a 2013 Abarth, for like 16K.
Lol. Well there goes that.
Brand new 2013s are 16-17K near me as well.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-M3-M3-2009-BMW-M3-Coupe-E92-DCT-CPO-CLEARBRA-Dual-Clutch-Navigation-MINT-/231234904363?forcerrptr=true&hash=item35d6aca12b&item=231234904363&pt=US_Cars_Trucks (http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-M3-M3-2009-BMW-M3-Coupe-E92-DCT-CPO-CLEARBRA-Dual-Clutch-Navigation-MINT-/231234904363?forcerrptr=true&hash=item35d6aca12b&item=231234904363&pt=US_Cars_Trucks)
Oh shit.
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 03:43:48 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-M3-M3-2009-BMW-M3-Coupe-E92-DCT-CPO-CLEARBRA-Dual-Clutch-Navigation-MINT-/231234904363?forcerrptr=true&hash=item35d6aca12b&item=231234904363&pt=US_Cars_Trucks (http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-M3-M3-2009-BMW-M3-Coupe-E92-DCT-CPO-CLEARBRA-Dual-Clutch-Navigation-MINT-/231234904363?forcerrptr=true&hash=item35d6aca12b&item=231234904363&pt=US_Cars_Trucks)
Oh shit.
Notice how the current bid is over $30,000? Unless you're just not very good at math, that's nearly double what he'd be paying for this Abarth.
Quote from: 68_427 on May 23, 2014, 03:40:46 PM
Brand new 2013s are 16-17K near me as well.
They would have to pay me to drive that car. I knew a girl who gave me a hand job at a wedding who drove one of those.
Quote from: CJ on May 23, 2014, 03:46:41 PM
Notice how the current bid is over $30,000? Unless you're just not very good at math, that's nearly double what he'd be paying for this Abarth.
I know you're either too lazy or just stupid - I'll go with stupid
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Cars-Trucks-/6001/i.html?_from=R40&_vxp=mtr&_nkw=BMW+m3&_dcat=6131&Body%2520Type=Sedan&rt=nc (http://www.ebay.com/sch/Cars-Trucks-/6001/i.html?_from=R40&_vxp=mtr&_nkw=BMW+m3&_dcat=6131&Body%2520Type=Sedan&rt=nc)
Plenty can be found around the 30K range at this point - again, the point wasn't that the M3 is the perfect option (it is if your a heterosexual male who likes cars) but rather there are better options than a shitty Fiat and GTI.
Again, I am basing this on the brand new prices of both the GTI and 500. I would even buy an E46 M3 for half as much.
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 03:57:28 PM
I know you're either too lazy or just stupid - I'll go with stupid
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Cars-Trucks-/6001/i.html?_from=R40&_vxp=mtr&_nkw=BMW+m3&_dcat=6131&Body%2520Type=Sedan&rt=nc (http://www.ebay.com/sch/Cars-Trucks-/6001/i.html?_from=R40&_vxp=mtr&_nkw=BMW+m3&_dcat=6131&Body%2520Type=Sedan&rt=nc)
Plenty can be found around the 30K range at this point - again, the point wasn't that the M3 is the perfect option (it is if your a heterosexual male who likes cars) but rather there are better options than a shitty Fiat and GTI.
Again, I am basing this on the brand new prices of both the GTI and 500. I would even buy an E46 M3 for half as much.
The brand new price of this Abarth is $16,000. Tell me how I'm wrong.
Quote from: 2o6 on May 23, 2014, 01:48:38 PM
He really reminds me of Me, Rags, Ro, and all of us young people when we used to pretend we knew shit when we were like 15.
hahaha i feel that
Quote from: CJ on May 23, 2014, 04:15:00 PM
The brand new price of this Abarth is $16,000. Tell me how I'm wrong.
I can't, but in what universe a 25K GTI in the same price range as a Abarth?
No matter what, the M cars are better in every way imaginable, no matter the price.
This guy is either 15 years old, or cougs.
Quote from: 2o6 on May 23, 2014, 05:37:07 PM
This guy is either 15 years old, or cougs.
You keep on posting this, we'll see how tired you get of it until you move to your next insult.
Like I said, he's either 15, or GoCougs.
Quote from: 2o6 on May 23, 2014, 05:39:40 PM
Like I said, he's either 15, or GoCougs.
No, you said
Quote from: 2o6 on May 23, 2014, 05:30:39 PM
I'm telling you, this guy drives a beat to shit 325e.
Make up your mind already. :rolleyes:
Either way, :wtf: @ suggesting an E9x M3/Honda Accord sedan as reasonable alternatives to a 16k, low key, fun, small city car
:wtf: @ handjobs as well, I will bet she didn't even finish
:wtf: @ telling other people what they should buy and like, but being too scared to admit to what you drive
:wtf: @ someone letting a 15 year old drive an E90 M3 enthusiastically
SO.
MUCH.
FAIL.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 23, 2014, 06:11:29 PM
Either way, :wtf: @ suggesting an E9x M3/Honda Accord sedan as reasonable alternatives to a 16k, low key, fun, small city car
:wtf: @ handjobs as well, I will bet she didn't even finish
:wtf: @ telling other people what they should buy and like, but being too scared to admit to what you drive
:wtf: @ someone letting a 15 year old drive an E90 M3 enthusiastically
SO.
MUCH.
FAIL.
Owning a Fiat 500 and knowing I paid my hard earned currency to purchase it would have me embarrassed, then I again, I suppose Raza is too, which is why he needs the approval of strangers to justify his purchase.
If he's afraid of being embarrassed he can hop into his BMW...
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 06:32:13 PM
Owning a Fiat 500 and knowing I paid my hard earned currency to purchase it would have me embarrassed, then I again, I suppose Raza is too, which is why he needs the approval of strangers to justify his purchase.
No, I'm fairly certain you're immune to embarassment.
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 06:32:13 PM
Owning a Fiat 500 and knowing I paid my hard earned currency to purchase it would have me embarrassed, then I again, I suppose Raza is too, which is why he needs the approval of strangers to justify his purchase.
Do you know what it feels like to pay your hard earned currency to purchase any car?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 23, 2014, 06:50:50 PM
Do you know what it feels like to pay your hard earned currency to purchase any car?
Every single one of them that I've owned. And when I purchased my most recent one, I never considered a VW (despite their massive depreciation) or a Fiat.
Oh and Raza, have fun jumping from one woman's car to another. That'll teach me ;)
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 07:13:40 PM
Every single one of them that I've owned. And when I purchased my most recent one, I never considered a VW (despite their massive depreciation) or a Fiat.
Oh and Raza, have fun jumping from one woman's car to another. That'll teach me ;)
All this and sexual insecurity too?
You're like the gift that keeps on giving.
Quote from: Char on May 23, 2014, 07:13:40 PM
Every single one of them that I've owned. And when I purchased my most recent one, I never considered a VW (despite their massive depreciation) or a Fiat.
Oh and Raza, have fun jumping from one woman's car to another. That'll teach me ;)
Name some..........
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 23, 2014, 06:11:29 PM
:wtf: @ handjobs as well, I will bet she didn't even finish
Only knob she was touching was for the radio.
Guys, guys. DFTT. Currently you are FTT.
Whether he's 15 or just stupid, we'll never know for sure. It's possible that a Volkswagen hit his dog and then raped the dog's corpse in front of him at a young age, so he's been traumatized.
Plus, I totally just bought an E90 M3. It's perfect for driving in the snow and not sticking out like a sore thumb. And it's a hatchback and comes with a warranty too, so that's awesome.
Perfect!
Quote from: Raza on May 24, 2014, 05:15:28 AM
Guys, guys. DFTT. Currently you are FTT.
Whether he's 15 or just stupid, we'll never know for sure. It's possible that a Volkswagen hit his dog and then raped the dog's corpse in front of him at a young age, so he's been traumatized.
Plus, I totally just bought an E90 M3. It's perfect for driving in the snow and not sticking out like a sore thumb. And it's a hatchback and comes with a warranty too, so that's awesome.
Winter tires, how do those work?
Anyways, Raza when the hell are you pulling the trigger on this thing? I'm really shocked your dealer has left a deal on the table this long.
Quote from: 2o6 on May 24, 2014, 02:03:07 PM
Anyways, Raza when the hell are you pulling the trigger on this thing? I'm really shocked your dealer has left a deal on the table this long.
Raza has been offering hand jobs on the regular.
Quote from: Char on May 24, 2014, 02:25:27 PM
Raza has been offering hand jobs on the regular.
Lmao, let the butthurt flow.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 24, 2014, 02:28:47 PM
Lmao, let the butthurt flow.
I've had some extra time to work on my material.
Quote from: Char on May 24, 2014, 02:30:03 PM
I've had some extra time to work on my material.
You need to work harder.
Quote from: 2o6 on May 24, 2014, 02:03:07 PM
Anyways, Raza when the hell are you pulling the trigger on this thing? I'm really shocked your dealer has left a deal on the table this long.
Expecting Raza to do anything but agonize for months and then do nothing about a car purchase is like expecting the Sun to rise in the south.
Hold on, is he selling his Z4 for a little POS Abarth?
Quote from: Onslaught on May 25, 2014, 06:44:08 AM
Hold on, is he selling his Z4 for a little POS Abarth?
Naw supplementing it, so he will not be a target in the ghetto.
He's going to stun us all and announce next week that he's bought a 1988 Trans Am GTA.
I wanted to like those cars. It seems like something car people love. But I've been in a few and I'm 100% not impressed at all. Not in the way they look, feel or drive. Or even how they're made.
Quote from: Onslaught on May 25, 2014, 04:08:05 PM
I wanted to like those cars. It seems like something car people love. But I've been in a few and I'm 100% not impressed at all. Not in the way they look, feel or drive. Or even how they're made.
Normal 500 or Abarth?
Quote from: 68_427 on May 25, 2014, 04:12:36 PM
Normal 500 or Abarth?
Both. But more of the normal ones. And I'm sorry, a turd is a turd and no tuning will make it not a turd.
Well, the way I see it, aside from price and a little gas these cars don't lose anything in their tuning. I wouldn't mind one as a commuter, but I am not sure I would find either to be some kind of driving revelation. Then again I still look back fondly on my experience with the Panda.... with a tiny turbo, bigger wheels and better damping and/or more suspension travel that car would have made for an awesome commuter. These little cars are fun to drive in their own way but they are not sports cars.
Quote from: 2o6 on May 24, 2014, 02:03:07 PM
Anyways, Raza when the hell are you pulling the trigger on this thing? I'm really shocked your dealer has left a deal on the table this long.
I'm likely not going to be able to make the Fiat work. The E90 M3 is a really appealing, though I hope to be able to say "big things are coming" by the weekend. I've just been so busy these past few weeks, but after Friday, I'll have nothing but time for a few days, then I can finalize a deal before going out of the country.
Quote from: Rupert on May 24, 2014, 03:14:36 PM
Expecting Raza to do anything but agonize for months and then do nothing about a car purchase is like expecting the Sun to rise in the south.
Yup. I'm shocked and ashamed that I don't run a revolving door of $3,000 cars that need a ton of work like you do, but I've learned to deal with it.
Quote from: Northlands on May 25, 2014, 10:49:11 AM
He's going to stun us all and announce next week that he's bought a 1988 Trans Am GTA.
Looks like someone follows me on Twitter!
Actually, the Trans Am deal fell through and now I'm looking for something a little more practical; 1974 (or thereabouts) Dodge Monaco tops the list.
Quote from: Raza on May 27, 2014, 12:16:15 PM
Yup. I'm shocked and ashamed that I don't run a revolving door of $3,000 cars that need a ton of work like you do, but I've learned to deal with it.
This. :lol:
Quote from: Raza on May 27, 2014, 12:16:15 PM
Yup. I'm shocked and ashamed that I don't run a revolving door of $3,000 cars that need a ton of work like you do, but I've learned to deal with it.
You should be, poseur.
$2000.